Dangerous question

HappyDaddy

HappyDaddy

Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
1,987
I'm trying to work out in my head what it is that makes a knife worth the money that some command, both new and "used." There are three that are particularly perplexing to me: Strider, Hinderer and Shirogorov. There just isn't anything about these that make it immediately apparent why they cost so much money. I have no doubt that they are well made and use fine materials, but the same can be said for many, many other knives that cost a great deal less.

This question isn't intended to generate a comparison of the above, or a flame war of any kind. I'm only interested in what these (as examples only) knives have that less expensive knives of similar quality do not.
 
I may be wrong, but I think Shirogorov knives used to be cheaper, but the prices rose when they became more popular in the U.S. Hinderers have an inflated price because they're only sold directly to military, law enforcement and EMT people.
 
I would love a Shirogorov, but like you just can't justify the cost. I understand the price going up due to limited availability, but many aren't limited and still command hefty prices.

 
HappyDaddy said:
I'm trying to work out in my head what it is that makes a knife worth the money that some command, both new and "used." There are three that are particularly perplexing to me: Strider, Hinderer and Shirogorov. There just isn't anything about these that make it immediately apparent why they cost so much money. I have no doubt that they are well made and use fine materials, but the same can be said for many, many other knives that cost a great deal less.

This question isn't intended to generate a comparison of the above, or a flame war of any kind. I'm only interested in what these (as examples only) knives have that less expensive knives of similar quality do not.
Click to expand...

Do I think all of those brands should be priced less than they are? Yes. Here's a few things that could contribute to the high cost of these knives however:

Strider - in house made hardware, cost of finishing the Titanium lockside, cost of 3d machining and CNC, artificially set premiums for the 'overbuilt aesthetic', the 'high end steel' and 'Strider badassness'.

Hinderer - in house made hardware, cost of finishing the Titanium lockside, cost of 3d machining and CNC, artificially set premiums for the 'overbuilt aesthetic', the 'high end steel' and 'Hinderer quality'.

Shirogorov - in house made hardware, cost of finishing the Titanium lockside, cost of 3d machining and CNC, artificially set premiums for 'a production knife that's as good as a midtech', the 'high end steel' and 'Shirogorov best-flippers-on-earth reputation'.

So basically... same story every time.

Personally I am the most frustrated at Shirogorov pricing as these prices were nowhere near what they were a few years ago, plus having warranty work done is a much bigger hassle with a lot more risk. For their production knives, at $700+ they are not what I would call getting your money's worth. For their so-called "custom division" knives... these are machine-ground midtech knives at prices that many amazing makers' sole-authorship pieces with damascus, gold and pearl do not command. Not getting your money's worth there, either.
 
Easy answer is materials and construction. IOW how well it's put together. Problem is until you actually own or hold one of these puppies it's impossible to know.
 
HappyDaddy said:
I'm trying to work out in my head what it is that makes a knife worth the money that some command, both new and "used." There are three that are particularly perplexing to me: Strider, Hinderer and Shirogorov. There just isn't anything about these that make it immediately apparent why they cost so much money. I have no doubt that they are well made and use fine materials, but the same can be said for many, many other knives that cost a great deal less.

This question isn't intended to generate a comparison of the above, or a flame war of any kind. I'm only interested in what these (as examples only) knives have that less expensive knives of similar quality do not.
Click to expand...

I would say that the real answer lies in that intangible quality that businesses who sell products which have a fan following have. Sure, you can try to break down a product into its parts, but that never speaks to things like overhead used to create it. And that water is even further muddied when you're talking about the labor enacted by a craftsman. I mean, what's a painting worth? Surely more than the few bucks in canvas and paint, no? What is the artist's time and skill worth? It can be hard to quantify that.

On top of that, Strider and Hinderer sell products based on advertising aimed at military, police, and first responders. So, it allows folks who AREN'T military, police, or first responders to have a small taste of that sort of action-filled lifestyle in their pocket (in their eyes). Never underestimate the power of marketing.
 
If you wonder you should hold one. I have only had a Strider but I think it is worth what I paid. And it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks.
 
Zidfeldts said:
If you wonder you should hold one. I have only had a Strider but I think it is worth what I paid. And it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks.
Click to expand...

Funny thing about the feeling you get when "holding one" is that it often has much to do with what others think, as much as any of us want to believe otherwise..
 
HappyDaddy said:
I'm trying to work out in my head what it is that makes a knife worth the money that some command, both new and "used." There are three that are particularly perplexing to me: Strider, Hinderer and Shirogorov. There just isn't anything about these that make it immediately apparent why they cost so much money. I have no doubt that they are well made and use fine materials, but the same can be said for many, many other knives that cost a great deal less.

This question isn't intended to generate a comparison of the above, or a flame war of any kind. I'm only interested in what these (as examples only) knives have that less expensive knives of similar quality do not.
Click to expand...

Materials. constriction, supply, and demand. Econ 101.

And saying that you think the knives people spent their hard earned money on are not worth it is inciting a flame war. Why did you call it a "dangerous question" if you didn't think it was?
 
As a business every knife works to maximize it's profit. But If priced too low, they are giving up the profit. And if priced too high, sales will drop and again they lose profit. Within the range that buyers will continue to purchase their knives
they will maximize what they can get. Absolutely normal.
To achieve this they rely on marketing, which includes product image and ensuring that the market knows how high quality they are. Some of it is factual, some of it may be just hype. Again, absolutely normal.
The question is not "dangerous" it just does't have a single "answer" and the only solutuon is that if you find a knife is "overpriced" in your mind then buy someting else that isn't.
 
The answer to what drives the price premium really isn't the labor or materials. The labor and materials is just a small part of what they use to leverage the marketing hype and associated market demand. As with any product, when you either increase demand or lower the supply or both, the price increases. By themselves, the incremental labor and material costs have no rational connection to the price premium, it's the story created by the marketing professionals that drives the price premium.

I have pens that costs from $100 to $700 that doesn't do much more than a what 50 cent pen can do. There are even pens that go for more than that. The explanation for price premium is still the same and the increased labor and material costs are only a nominal portion of the price increase.
 
Lots of knives cost more for the design - if you could buy a knife with a very similar design to a Strider, with similar materials, for less cost, you would....but you can't. If you want a Strider, you have to pay Strider prices. Same for Hinderer and Emerson.
 
$20 scratch off lottery tickets are overpriced.
 
Rey HRH said:
The answer to what drives the price premium really isn't the labor or materials. The labor and materials is just a small part of what they use to leverage the marketing hype and associated market demand. As with any product, when you either increase demand or lower the supply or both, the price increases. By themselves, the incremental labor and material costs have no rational connection to the price premium, it's the story created by the marketing professionals that drives the price premium.

I have pens that costs from $100 to $700 that doesn't do much more than a what 50 cent pen can do. There are even pens that go for more than that. The explanation for price premium is still the same and the increased labor and material costs are only a nominal portion of the price increase.
Click to expand...

I couldn't disagree more. Sure, marketing is a big factor but to disregard material and construction is silly.

I also buy and sell fine Bibles. What's the dif between a $30 bonded leather Bible and a $200 Allan smyth sewn goatskin Bible? Well, like your pen example...both have basic function writing and reading. The Allan Bible won't fall apart in a year or two and haS superior flexibility in your hand.

Same with most quality knives...IMHO.
 
The answer to this is multi-faceted.

1. Supply and demand
2. Manpower--the fewer employees you have the longer it takes to produce each knife, which results in higher employee salaries.
3. Craftsmanship--How much time is put into each knife, the level of care given to each part, and how good the fit and finish are. Hand crafted doesn't mean its a better quality than a mass produced knife, but it can be.
4. Materials--Big companies pay less for buying in bulk. This is why customs are usually not in the latest, greatest steel, unless you are willing to pay a premium for it.
5. Perceived value--When enough people are paying inflated prices, others start to think that maybe it is worth the money.
 
The illusiveness and coolness factor of ownership has turned them into a Veblen good. There's really nothing else to it.
 
I think we also have to remember the companies that stand behind the product. There is a high level of quality control and good warranty service behind each of these products. Yes sometimes a dud makes it out the door, but those cases are handled.
 
EyeDog said:
I also buy and sell fine Bibles. What's the dif between a $30 bonded leather Bible and a $200 Allan smyth sewn goatskin Bible? Well, like your pen example...both have basic function writing and reading. The Allan Bible won't fall apart in a year or two and haS superior flexibility in your hand.
Click to expand...

I'm not even religious, but now I want an Allan smyth sewn goatskin Bible!
 
They're absolutely worth more for all the reasons mentioned above.

A pair of Nike basketball shoes are better on the court then a pair of Walmart specials

As for the "how much more" cap that they reach, think why a pair of Nike Air Jordan's is worth more then Nike Air Max

That's a generic comparrison but to sum it up; Yes there are great knives out there for far less $.
Their knives are great knives at their absolute best; painstaking attention to every little detail, add to that the name reputation of a top respected knife maker, known throughout the knife community; top quality plus top name recognition (and great marketing) and they can charge the most possible $ for your product.

(On the flip side, if the quality level wasn't top notch and/or dropped, so would the respect for said knife maker and it would tarnish their reputation within the community, so you ask, are they worth the money? They are to those willing to pay. I have a barber, highly respected, travels for competitions on occasions, dude is A+, and he likes to say, "I'm the barber who cuts your barbers hair." Well, the above mentioned knives are the knives that knife makers want to carry.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top