Dangerous question

Easy answer, is it worth it to you?

They're priced the way they are so the company can make a profit. Could they spit out hundreds of low quality pieces and sell them for less to a larger market? Yes, Chinese manufacturers do it just fine, but some will want something with a little more quality control or even something unique or special to them and are willing to pay more for that because it's a smaller market. The question isn't "Is it really worth it?" It's "Is it worth it to you."
 
I would think for a lot of these top tier makers it comes down to attention, hand crafting, and quality control after you consider materials. There could be a really good knife with the same materials as a hinderer but it could be a mass production knife that doesn't see as much attention with quality control. This could lead to more problems per the entire batch of knives compared to the same number as one of these top tier blades.

Unfortunately some of it is just pure capatilism. Someone can make a great product but charge 100% more then a different product that is very similar and just market it better. The difference in price always attracts a certain market of buyers that are going to buy the product that is much more expensive because of the simple factor that we equate a higher price with higher quality. Bottom line. As long as the product is indeed of high quality this always applies. Even if the products, let's say 2 knives, are nearly identical the one that costs 2x more probably won't have problems selling even though the other one costs so much less. People want top quality and people assume something that's 2x or 4x more then everything else must be the best. Sometimes it's true, sometimes not so much. That's just capitalism.
 
marcinek said:
Materials. constriction, supply, and demand. Econ 101.

And saying that you think the knives people spent their hard earned money on are not worth it is inciting a flame war. Why did you call it a "dangerous question" if you didn't think it was?
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I didn't say they weren't worth the money. I asked what makes them worth more than other knives that, in my view, are made of essentially indistinguishable materials and at equal tolerances. Your Econ lesson, while appreciated, isn't necessary or complete. I titled the thread as I did because I feared that people wouldn't be able to resist the urge to get goofy. So far everyone has responded quite politely and helpfully, except you.
 
HappyDaddy said:
I didn't say they weren't worth the money. I asked what makes them worth more than other knives that, in my view, are made of essentially indistinguishable materials and at equal tolerances. Your Econ lesson, while appreciated, isn't necessary or complete. I titled the thread as I did because I feared that people wouldn't be able to resist the urge to get goofy. So far everyone has responded quite politely and helpfully, except you.
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Simple, what makes them worth the asking price is that people are willing to pay the asking price. As much as we'd like to, this type of thing is hard to quantify much more than that. Most people could put up their own drywall or paint their own house, but, for whatever reason, they're willing to pay an extreme price tag to have someone do it for them.
 
They all have their niche audience and have limited production capacity.

As for Shirogorov, my one and only F95 is the finest flipper I've ever had and a bargain compared to a Todd Begg Mid Tech.

"Is it worth it?" is a subjective question.

The prices on Brous knives makes most of these look good in comparison.
 
brancron said:
I'm not even religious, but now I want an Allan smyth sewn goatskin Bible!
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I worked in an industry that serviced the binding/leather book cover industries. Our inside term for the finest, softest, most expensive leather covers was "genuine goat scrotum".
 
All are the result of artificial price inflation...Striders based on the made up military heroics of the namesake and their low production numbers that obviously would add to the cost of anything being produced and sold.

Hinderers demand the insane prices they sell for on the secondary market because the original prices are pretty high and the company creates a situation of artificial exclusivity since they only sell to military or first responders directly and enough people are gullible enough to believe that military and first responders are actually using Hinderer knives in significant quantities (they're not).

Personally, I don't get it. Striders have a length to edge ratio of like 3:1 and are as thick as a pack of gum, Hinderers don't flip well at all despite being that design and really don't offer anything (except the name) that many Zero Tolerance models do at less than half the price. If you ask me, save the XM-18, I'll take a 0560.
 
I wondered the same thing. Myself I wouldn't pay more then $250 for an EDC knife $300-700 for a custom. Anything more then that I couldn't justify the cost. I've seen some custom knives in the $1500-$2000 range. Unless they are using some exotic rare super steel I just don't get it.
 
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[video=youtube;BNQULw8E8H0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNQULw8E8H0[/video]
 
EyeDog said:
Problem is until you actually own or hold one of these puppies it's impossible to know.
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This man knows. Obviously, he has experienced the "difference."

I like large Sebbies and Zaans, although they are a tiny bit too large for my hand. But the Southard AVO is everything (to me) that the Sebbie is, but fits my hand-size much better, as the closed size is slightly shorter. I really enjoy the feel of that folder in my hand.
 
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Great video CM. Great rational and instructive. My mantra is the opposite--nothing over $500. Exceeded that a few times...mostly for high end Ivory scales on slip joints, a few fancy combat troodens and my obsession for CRK knives.

I call you the "hammer" man from your love of hammers. I wish I had my grandfathers collection of hammers. Sold them years ago when I did not know better.

Mike
 
EyeDog said:
Great video CM. Great rational and instructive. My mantra is the opposite--nothing over $500. Exceeded that a few times...mostly for high end Ivory scales on slip joints, a few fancy combat troodens and my obsession for CRK knives.

I call you the "hammer" man from your love of hammers. I wish I had my grandfathers collection of hammers. Sold them years ago when I did not know better.

Mike
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[video=youtube;kjN4l8luNy4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjN4l8luNy4[/video]
 
CM...that's the one!! I would love to wear that to Church and just before I start preaching open up my jacket and say, "don't anyone dare go to sleep today while I'm preachen!!!!" [emoji51]
 
The models that you listed are not particularly high-volume production, yet have high-effort construction needs.

That and high-quality components lead to high dollar consumer cost.

It is all about perspective at the consumer level; if you perceive that the knife is worth the money, then it is worth the money until something convinces you otherwise....or not.

Some people think that the panache of owning "the real deal" is worth the extra, and in some cases that may be true.

I don't really think it goes any deeper than that. Perception of value in the eyes of the person with the cash in hand.

best

mqqn
 
Lots of really good answers so far.

In my mind, the costs of materials, labor, and overhead merely set the price floor for any good or service. If the product can't be sold for a price which covers those costs, plus whatever the manufacturer sees as their minimum acceptable profit margin, that product will not be produced, at least long term. Once you get above that price floor, the actual selling price is determined almost entirely by the market, it's just supply and demand. Are these knives, or any other product worth the money? Of course they are... to the people that buy them. The supply is limited because the demand is. Sure, these companies could sell more knives, but that doesn't increase demand, so the prices (and therefore, the margins) would fall. The companies attempt to maintain their ideal equilibrium between supply and demand through production and marketing. They're in the business of trying to maximize their profits and these are some of the tools they use to do so.

As far as why they're worth it, there are many reasons: materials, fit and finish, durability, exclusivity, etc. and different people will value those attributes differently. Most non-knife people I know would consider a $60 Blur at Walmart to be an expensive knife and would think that spending $200 on a Benchmade is ludicrous, to say nothing of a $1000 Shirogorov. We might think it's crazy to spend $20k on a Perazzi when a Remington 870 can be had for $300, but that Perazzi is worth the money to a competitive trap shooter. Value is a matter of perspective.
 
For me I like the design, looks and how the action feels when using the knives. That's enough for me to own them. From Iwata Kustom Airbrushes to tricked out Colt rifles I don't mind paying for what I like when I can make it happen. After all, isn't that why we went to work every week for all those years.:D
 
EyeDog said:
I couldn't disagree more. Sure, marketing is a big factor but to disregard material and construction is silly.

I also buy and sell fine Bibles. What's the dif between a $30 bonded leather Bible and a $200 Allan smyth sewn goatskin Bible? Well, like your pen example...both have basic function writing and reading. The Allan Bible won't fall apart in a year or two and haS superior flexibility in your hand.

Same with most quality knives...IMHO.
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Sure it would be silly to disregard material and construction. That's why I didn't disregard it. So I don't understand why you couldn't disagree more. I said, "The labor and materials is just a small part of what they use to leverage the marketing hype and associated market demand." You do a gross profit to direct cost ratio analysis and you'll see the ratio is not the same for the $30 bible and the $200 bible.

And seriously, I can make a $30 bible last as long as a $200 bible with the same usage rate. One can even argue that the $30 bible is subjected to more abuse than the $200 bible and subjecting the more expensive bible to the same usage will ruin the book in just the same time and maybe even less because it's made of more delicate materials such as finer paper.

The profit margin profile of a product is largely determined by the target market, hence you can see the exact same product produced at the same facility (thus having the same production cost) selling for different price points around the world. Another example is the various prices people may pay for plane tickets on an economy class in a single plane. It costs the airline the same amount for each passenger to get them from point A to point B, the pricing strategy is based on what each consumer will bear based on his market profile, not on the cost of flying that passenger. If you expand the analysis to the different classes and analyze the cost of increased space, better accommodations, and better service in Business and First Class, the price premium for those seats do not correlate or is justified by the costs alone but, rather, with the market target again.
 
Rey HRH said:
Sure it would be silly to disregard material and construction. That's why I didn't disregard it. So I don't understand why you couldn't disagree more. I said, "The labor and materials is just a small part of what they use to leverage the marketing hype and associated market demand." You do a gross profit to direct cost ratio analysis and you'll see the ratio is not the same for the $30 bible and the $200 bible.

And seriously, I can make a $30 bible last as long as a $200 bible with the same usage rate. One can even argue that the $30 bible is subjected to more abuse than the $200 bible and subjecting the more expensive bible to the same usage will ruin the book in just the same time and maybe even less because it's made of more delicate materials such as finer paper.

The profit margin profile of a product is largely determined by the target market, hence you can see the exact same product produced at the same facility (thus having the same production cost) selling for different price points around the world. Another example is the various prices people may pay for plane tickets on an economy class in a single plane. It costs the airline the same amount for each passenger to get them from point A to point B, the pricing strategy is based on what each consumer will bear based on his market profile, not on the cost of flying that passenger. If you expand the analysis to the different classes and analyze the cost of increased space, better accommodations, and better service in Business and First Class, the price premium for those seats do not correlate or is justified by the costs alone but, rather, with the market target again.
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Well...with the drift to marketing and economics I'll bow to the experts or at least those that know what they are talking about.

All I can say is that I like both my PM2 and my large Sebenza. About a $500 difference in price. The PM2 is a great work horse. The Sebenza a work of art. That is purely subjective but that's how I see it.
 
I have a hinderer xm-18 and a shirogorov cannabis. I would say the quality of the shiro (I got for 1400) is for sure much higher than the hinderer. I'm sure I probably paid a pretty high premium, but nobody else made a similar knife with the qualities I was looking for.

I even bought a Chinese knock off of the shiro for $80, and compared to the real thing it's a piece of junk.
 
Thought Experiment.
What comes to your mind if you think of a specific knife?
SAK Cadet - Strider SnG.
Can you see the difference?
red mag
 
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