DARK OPS Pics. PLEASE!!!!!

If we take these same knives (the new Dark Ops knives) and instead of being made here in the US for Dark Ops they were made in China by one of the companies that have been know to outright steal people's design. Would anyone say that they were just listening to what the costumers wanted and changing maybe 10%-15% of the knife and that it was fine for them to do so. I am not saying anything about the quality of the knives here just the design itself. Oh and I understand that there are only so many ways to grind out a knife and that any knife made will look at least a little like some other knife before it.
 
Mark Nelson said:
If we take these same knives (the new Dark Ops knives) and instead of being made here in the US for Dark Ops they were made in China by one of the companies that have been know to outright steal people's design. Would anyone say that they were just listening to what the costumers wanted and changing maybe 10%-15% of the knife and that it was fine for them to do so. I am not saying anything about the quality of the knives here just the design itself. Oh and I understand that there are only so many ways to grind out a knife and that any knife made will look at least a little like some other knife before it.

MOD_KNIFE.jpg


Look here we have a knife that has all the functionality and even the asthetics of an Extrema Ratio. BUT it is not a direct copy in either the handle or the blade. Now why would a videogame company go thru the time and effort to change the design enough so that nothing was an exact copy? I would have thought a company that is actual competition with them would definalty have more cause to do that, and one founded by a former employee even doubley so. I guess Brownie n Frank don't see it that way.
 
I want to see this Frank Miller in here to explain himself.

By the way, Brownie, please take a step back and think about this objectively. Don't be an apologist.

Lastly, your comment about the success of the ad campaign in generating attention seems to ignore the fact that the vast majority of potential customers who have expressed their opinion on said ad here have indicated that they will be much less likely to buy those knives because of it. Bad press is OK if you're a movie star who is paid on his ability to attract viewers, but it's no good if you're trying to sell a product that folks will want to use, trust and depend on.
 
Wulf said:
I want to see this Frank Miller in here to explain himself.

By the way, Brownie, please take a step back and think about this objectively. Don't be an apologist.

Lastly, your comment about the success of the ad campaign in generating attention seems to ignore the fact that the vast majority of potential customers who have expressed their opinion on said ad here have indicated that they will be much less likely to buy those knives because of it. Bad press is OK if you're a movie star who is paid on his ability to attract viewers, but it's no good if you're trying to sell a product that folks will want to use, trust and depend on.

Well said, Wulfster.
 
MelancholyMutt said:
And Striders to resemble Ek knives, predating striders by a few decades....

Copy one or two things, and you're inspired... copy three and you're a thief...

Maybe, but the only thing Strider had in common with Ek were the cord-wrapped handles. Extrema Ratio copied Strider's look quite a bit, and timed their entrance to the cutlery market to coincide with Strider's rise up the industry ladder.

The way I look at it, you've got two turds(Extrema Ratio and Dark Ops). No need to argue over which one smells worse, cause in the end, they both Stink.
 
bob bowie said:
Maybe, but the only thing Strider had in common with Ek were the cord-wrapped handles. Extrema Ratio copied Strider's look quite a bit, and timed their entrance to the cutlery market to coincide with Strider's rise up the industry ladder.

The way I look at it, you've got two turds(Extrema Ratio and Dark Ops). No need to argue over which one smells worse, cause in the end, they both Stink.

Could you explain exactly what do you mean.
Is it copy of Strider:
Col_Mos.JPG

or this
shrapnel_1.JPG

or
Fulcrum_Folder_II.JPG
 
Look at the original models that appeared in the U.S. with the flat handles, and striped blades. They may of butched up and changed their look, but that still doesn't change the fact that they tried to piggy back off of Striders success here in the US.

Extrema Ratio's karma has bit them in the ass.
 
Wulf: How it feel to want? [ just kidding, I always say that when someone wants something ]

I'm the one giving Frank and DOK a fair shake and being objective in my observations. Most of the posters who have made negative remarks have been the subjective posters spewing opinions as facts without the facts being known to them.

I have obviously talked to Frank at length in case anyone was wondering. Not just since the ads hit or the blade show took place last weekend either. I have kept an ongoing dialogue open with Frank since first becoming aware of the ER line, and subsequently Franks involvement with them over the last year.

I have dealt with Frank as a customer on a few ocassions while with ER in purchasing that product, have seen others postings about their dealing with Frank and their own experiences with the man over the phone during orders and questions about the knives.

Not once have I seen a post of a knife knut who thought Frank had lied to them about the product after conversing with him, not once that Frank wasn't an upstanding forthright individual who called it the way he saw it, or ever not took care of a customers needs even when those needs would not be cover by the ER limited warranty.

TheSkinwalkeR: I'll take that dollar now. :D

My opinion is just that, no more or less than anyone elses here. I don't believe you will see the Simonich family atty. going after Frank for some violation or infringment, nor do I see ER going after Frank either.

ER is certainly aware of the new line of knives and Franks whereabouts at this time. He isn't out there hiding from them, or lurking in the shadows. My guess is he is smart enough to run things by corporate attys that represent him and his new venture [ with regard to ER and the potential problems ] and that has all been hashed and discussed in legaleze long before the venture was sponsored by the amount of money it took to get this company up and running as well as the monies spent in ads and sponsorships at blade this year.

I enjoy talking to Frank over the phone. I was aware the new line was coming to fruition, what the general plans were and the general direction the company would take. Hell, he stated so himself at times [ or at least alluded to the fact he was going off on his own ].

I don't believe you will see Frank come on here and attempt to explain anything to anyone about their particualr issues with the new line or his ads, or even his reasoning behind the summary of events.

You don't like the ads, they offend you, don't buy the product.

You don't like the ERness of the DOK's, don't buy one.

You don't like the way Frank handled blade? don't buy one.

You don't like that he is not defending his actions to others here with questions? Don't buy one.

If you don't like the looks of the knives, don't buy one.

Don't like the materials used? Don't buy one

It's that simple folks. I would not expect anyone who took any issues with any of the above to buy one of the DOK's in the future.

Myself, I have waited patiently for the upgraded version of the MPC folder. It should be the most rugged folder I have ever held [ like the MPC is ], it should be easier to hold onto when wet with the upgrades, I expect it will do all I want at many things and not a few things that well based on the blades profile [ if it is like the MPC ].

I'm interested in securing a folder that when needed will act like a straight knife in strength when the secondary lock is engaged. I'm interested in a folder that can extricate myself or others from vehicles if the need arises as well. I'm interested in the materials being used in their construction which can stand up to some very hard abuse and still not faulter or break along the way when I may need it most.

There are very few folders who can meet these requirements on the market and that are available to the public in any quantity to speak of. There are a few, but very few. The new stratofighter will find a home as an edc clipped to the waistband not as a defensive knife but as an urban survival folder, always there, ready to perform as a sharpened crowbar if necessary in a life and death situation, capable of breaking glass to extrcate or effect a rescue of another whose trapped in a car, etc.

Many of us want to carry a straight knife for strength over a folder, even when the law says no way. So we carry the folders and compromise. With this line there is no reason to compromise these attributes. They were originally designed to replace a soldiers straight bladed field knife by ER. I think they do that very well. So does Leroy Thompson who replaced three of his straight blades he takes itno tough spots with the MPC. Here's a guy who has been all over the world working EP assignments endorsing the folder as something that could easily replace a few of his fixed blades he relied on to survive the bad breath encounters and emergency situations that may arise in the real world.

I'm on board for one of these as soon as they are deliverable. I sdld the MPC after Frank left as their warranty was only as good as Frank made it personally, and not the companies policy. I expect good things from Frank and DOK and have no reason at this time to think otherwise based on personal interaction with him and the products heritage.

Brownie
 
Don't forget that stripes on knives is not relegated to just that company.

S+W has knives that have the tiger stripes as well now. Suppose everyone will now boycott S+W products and dump all those great revolvers they make into the sea right fellas?

Let say within a week outa do with getting anything S+W out of the house, those evil copying fools dontcha know? Just how far you fellas willing to take it? Gotta sell those snubs you carry, gotta get rid of that new .500 that the rave, don't forget those old dick specials your dada and grandads left yopu either, heirlooms or not, it's the principle of thing that counts. Better destroy anything S+W otherwise you might be considered a hippocrit and non PC by being selective in the enforcement of your own sense of fair play.

Ya right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brownie
 
brownie0486 said:
You don't like the ads, they offend you, don't buy the product.

You don't like the ERness of the DOK's, don't buy one.

You don't like the way Frank handled blade? don't buy one.

You don't like that he is not defending his actions to others here with questions? Don't buy one.

If you don't like the looks of the knives, don't buy one.

Don't like the materials used? Don't buy one

.

Brownie

Allright, you win, I give up! I WON'T BUY ONE.

Without casting aspersions on anyone's character and no offense to anyone involved, IMHO, Frank could have handled this a lot better. But, then again, what do I know, I'm just a potential customer who has no idea what a good and "stand up guy" Frank is. I can not speculate as to the quality of businessman that he is nor can I comment on his CS. To me, though, the Ad campaign seems immature, and unprofessional, and not representative of the types of guys (and gals) that I have encountered on this and other forums. My .02, so check my post coun,t and grab the salt.

SEMPER FI,
Rad
 
Well all I have to say is I will reserve judgment until I have handled one. I have to say they are verry atractive knives and hopfully will be easyer to get than otheres that I won't mention. A little compition is a good thing on the knife market so look alike or not they will probably sell like hotcakes! :D
 
Allright, you win, I give up! I WON'T BUY ONE

Ditto:

We have an unknown company, with an insulting publicity campaign, that rips off another company and a well known knife maker. They wasted their time at Blade and they havent bothered to introduce themselves here; despite being aware that we have been discussing their new venture for several days. We do not know where their knives are made, what they are made from (surgical steel?), what they will look like, what they will cost, or even when they will be available.The only guy on the planet who has been in consistent contact with them, and the only one who has vigorously defended them on this thread, is doing everything he can to distance himself from DOKs.

Are these guys for real, or are they a politically motivated scam to discredit our hobby and our industry? I hope the AKTI and other interested parties are looking into these guys. I am wondering how long it will be before we hear that Dark Ops Knives has been caught marketing lethal weapons to pre-schoolers in Chicago.

n2s
 
I have held off talking about this until now. I am not saying crap about this brand until I see them and we buy them and hold one in my hand. We have dealt with Frank many times in his ER venture and I have never thought anything bad of him.

for us at TDE, time will simply tell. Paul
 
I agree with Brownie. Everyone needs to be sued for copying the original "knife" made by so and so back when. Come on you guys. Knife makers get ideas from other knives. As long as it isn't an "exact copy" it doesn't matter. Just look SOG and Cold Steel with their versions of the Benchmade Axis-Lock. I don't go for this BS "Designed by NavySeals, SpecialForces, etc." All of REAL soldiers know that you carry "expendable knives" anyways. I'm not doggin' Frank Miller or anything, I like this kind of hype for entertainment value. I can tell you that on a $40,000 a year salary, I'm not taking my $400 knife to the field. :)
 
Wunderbar said:
Just look SOG and Cold Steel with their versions of the Benchmade Axis-Lock.

At least SOG and Cold Steel didn't call their knock-offs the Axis-Lock. :rolleyes:

Why resemble the design and copy the name?
 
Let me first say that I do not know the story behind Dark Ops, nor have I ever dealt with Mr. Miller. I am not passing any sort of judgement on either of them.

However, because of this thread and this thread , the following hypothesis seems plausible:
1. Mr. Miller aggressively builds ER's U.S. base.
2. Mr. Miller want to produce ER knives in the U.S., but ER has a problem with that.
3. Mr. Miller leaves with some leftover ER knives to use as DOK prototypes.

Once again, this may not be the way it happened. It is difficult to build a reputation - and Frank Miller seems to have a good reputation for customer service - but very easy to destroy one with a few mistakes.

So what does it matter if the knives are "stolen" in some abstract sense of the word? If DOK produces an adequate product, why should we not use it? The answer is simple: integrity. I would not really feel comfortable purchasing a knife from DOK without knowing the real story. Maybe that sounds naive, but integrity does matter.
 
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