David Beck W.S.K. vs. TOPs "TRACKER" round #1

Rumble,
Personally I have an EZ-Lap diamond rod, I also feel that one of the Lansky triangular dog bones would work as well to get into the hook portion. Mr. Beck suggest, a good Arkansas stone with one of the long edges rounded on a cinder block or concrete slab for the hook portion.

jaime,
The Beck's handle is about 1/2 inch longer, according to the Stanley tape measure. The Beck is larger overall. As far as the handle being slippery, what is hard to see in the picture is the way Beck contours the handle. It fills every gap between the handle and hand creating more surface of hand to the handle. Beck also waxes the knife handle, it creates a subtle tacky feeling with NO residue on the handle.

As far as the lack of guard, it's hard to describe in words, but I believe on the custom version, where the handle has the semi sub hilt an inch before the blade starts, behind it is where the user is suppose to grip for most of the harder work such as chopping, heavy whittling when trying to get more leverage to move material and so on. Choking up over the sub hilt for lighter cutting chores only would lessen the chance of sliding your finger on the edge. Your hand is still behind that sub hilt area and is not going to move. That is a feature the TOPs does not have. It would be easier to slide my hand onto the TOPs blade than the Beck.
The TOPs, when grasped in the lower chopping positions, feels like its going to fly out of my hands. It also twists in the hand when chopping. It is due to the balance (or lack of) and the pronounced hook at the bottom of the grip.

Long winded but I hope your questions are answered.

Trace,
Since these two knives are tools and a tool is a labor saving device, I naturally would want the tool that will save me time and labor. So, apparently it does matter which one performs faster.

I am into this sort of blade, and it does matter who made it if it works. If the TOPs was a better knife, I would say so, but it is not.

The TOPs is good knife, its tougher than hell, I would not hesitate to use it in any given situation, but the Beck is a much better and refined version.
 
Thank you Vermonster for such a detailed response. It sounds like the custom version has had more gray matter involved in its designing. I hope I could get a go on that one. Lucky you!.
Concerning the sharpening issue, I have a gerber sharpening stick that has worked fine to sharpen everything, from folding knives to my parang. Takes very little room and can be used to align the edge and then actual metal removal. Maybe it would work well with that knife, even in the hook area.
 
n2s, i see you have the whitehunter, how is it? its the knife that made me find this forum :D
 
aaron_simkovich,

The Whitehunter is a proven classic. I had used and liked the Elkhunter, which I still do, and I wasn't sure about the sharpened spine on the whitehunter. But, the knife carries and works well; I just have to keep reminding myself to chop with the back of the knife. :rolleyes:

My Puma dates from the 1970s, be careful with some of the recent Puma knives. Their quality has slipped a bit and the sheaths are not what they use to be.

whitehun.jpg

This picture shows a current Puma Whitehunter with the simplified sheath.

Back on topic:
I noticed you have some "tools" in a sheath pocket. What are they and is this an option offered by either Dave Beck, or Tops?

n2s
 
n2s

call me aa or aaron

puma has released more whitehunters, i think the whitehunter III is the latest, and in my opinion, by far the worst. No guard, just some traction gimping, which for the knife use intended is minimal protection and stability in my opinion.
 
Vermontster-
I'm planning on getting one very soon. After all of the great things I've heard about this knife, I have to get one! I am a big fan of this design and can't wait to use it here on my camping trips and survival outings.

Take care,
Jaredmy web page
 
jaime,
The cool fact about this knife is that it has evolved over the last ten or so years. Mr. Beck told me that this model has reached it's peak in refinement, he stated that it has evolved as far as it can go. It's been field tested all over the world in all environments. Field testing and evolving over that time has worked all the "bugs" out.
Your Gerber sharpener should work well. I am also going to try my old Gerber sharpening Steel.

n2s,

The pouch on the Beck was a custom order to my specs. I left it big enough to give me options. I have the EZ-Lap diamond rod, a small fire starting tool, SAK Rucksack with a couple feet of para cord attached and a small packet of tinder (0000 steel wool and cotton balls) and a little snare wire. Everything else can be made.

The pouch (did not come with knife) on the TOPs is a GI single mag pouch attached to the front of the sheath via the accessory strap that came with the knife originally. I think they have omitted this option from the current Trackers.

Before the pouch, I had a small companion knife made from Mineral Mountain Hatchet works, but I found that a pouch with the above tools (in the Beck) was WAY more versatile in the woods.
 
My W.S.K. and W.S.K. Companion knives are available to order.
Information on the specs. of these knives along with many close-up photos and ordering information may be viewed at www.beckknives.com.

Because I strictly adhere to hand-crafting my knives one at a time to to provide the highest degree of craftsmanship I can for my customers,
these knives are usually not available for immediate shipment.
At the time of this posting, my current completion time for new orders still remains pretty good and is running about 4 to 6 weeks.

David R. Beck
Knifesmith
 
I have WSK #569 on order and can hardly wait. Spoke with Dave yeterday, and he is extremely pleasent to talk to. He actually listens and is very concerned about your knife. He was as excited about making it as I was to receive it. To me it appears as if his knives and superlative quality are a direct reflection of himself, and he does not take that lightly. You can be assured that he will stand behind it 110%. Thanks again Dave. Mark
 
Vermonster :

The Beck's handle is about 1/2 inch longer
Click to expand...

It is nice to see longer handles, they greatly increase performance and overall functinality. That difference alone would make a huge difference in the two versions.

... it does matter which one performs faster.
Click to expand...

Yes, not a lot of success would be generate from a promotional campain of "Buy our knives, they make you work harder and longer."

The only downside to greater speed and lower effort is that it can come at the cost of a lower durability and overall functionality. So for example you might want to comment on is there any work the TOPS can do that the custom can't because it would get too extensively damaged.

-Cliff
 
Round #2

CHOPPING:

Beck W.S.K. is a much better chopper as already stated. The only way to describe it is for every one chop from the Beck it takes two or three chops from the TOPS to get the same results, this is due to the much steeper grind and lack of balance from the TOPS.

One thing that I have found with the TOPS is, to get better results when chopping the spot the blade needs to hit most often is in the hook area. The TOPS knife, because of the lack of angle on the blade, tends to move to this area naturally. This is not the desired area where one is suppose to make contact. I have to adjust to get the TOPS to hit on the hatchet edge.The Beck's blade is angled forward more which makes it contact in the desired "sweet spot" which bites deep and moves out more material. Its little things like this that show the details that have gone into the Beck that make it much more of a pleasure to use.

Of course chopping in the hook area can be done but the hatchet/curved edge is the chopping edge incorporated into the overall design of this type of knife. When chopping, especially seasoned hard wood branches, the TOPS tends to twist and feels as if it is going to fly out of my hands even more than when chopping soft green saplings (evergreens and hardwood saplings), therefore technique changes into muscling the knife through and that means that it takes more energy and time to get through the medium being chopped.

SPLITTING:

Both knives split small logs and boards well due to the thickness of the blades. The Beck excels somewhat better due to the blade being longer and weighted more in the front and less in the rear due to the tapered tang. Again while splitting the TOPS tends to head towards the that same area as when chopping. The Beck is in that same sweet spot, making it a more efficient splitting tool.

Another interesting feature is the curved portion on the spine of both blades, the TOPS is shorter in length than the Beck. The curve in the Beck is nicely rounded, I have used it to pound a piece of dried sinew on a log to separate it in to strands for cordage. I have yet to try it on plant material for the same purpose, but I imagine it will work just as good. It can be done with the TOPS but the TOPS is not rounded, it is squared. It works, but not as efficiently. I guess you could use a stick or rock, but why do that if the tool you need is on your hip. I will dedicate a section of this comparison on making improvised tools and gear in the near future.

SAWING:

The Beck has awesome self cleaning saw teeth, that really work, and work very well in wood. They are like giant Swiss Army Knife saw blade teeth. Most know how good they work. The TOPS also has teeth that work ok in wood but clog quickly and need to be cleared often. Neither is to be used to replace a buck saw, chain saw, or any other dedicated saw. But they do work. Again the Beck requires less effort and puts out much more. Most don't like saw teeth, but the truth is, if they work they can be a great addition. (You can view a close up of the Beck saw on beckknives.com.) The TOPS teeth are fairly easy to sharpen.
The Beck will require more time and technique to sharpen than the TOPS, but for me it will not be that big of a deal. Truth is that the teeth will not require sharpening very often anyway.

The TOPS teeth, according to the manual I got with the knife, have been used on car doors/roofs and aircraft skins. I have not tried it on either yet.

More to follow,

Cliff,
So far there has been no problems with durability in either knife. No rolled edges or chipped blades. The Beck does stay sharper longer though. The longer handle does aid in leverage. I like long handles. The TOPS could improve some by taking the hook out of the bottom of the handle and making it semi-straight.

greenbladePB,
You are in for a real treat.
 
Excellent review. Using the knives for their intended purposes, tool making etc., is very interesting.
 
tknife,

It is very interesting indeed. A little off topic but my thoughts.

My views of how and what I thought survival was and is have changed over time. I used to be in the mind set that I needed a huge nasty chopper to cut down the forest, stack copious amounts of firewood and fend against man and beast in the bush, I then started experimenting with this unconventional design for about a year now and have found it to do everything I have ever needed done and more, much more. I have found myself bringing less "gear" into the woods and making what I would need from nature. I feel much more confidant in myself and skills. It's brought me to a different level, as corny as that sounds.
To be truthful I still have a love for the big blades, but the more I turn to this style of knife, I find myself leaving the big ones in the sock drawer. Its compact, yet retains the weight of a bigger blade and its fun to use.
I feel that in an extreme winter situation the only other knife/tool I would need besides the Beck and SAK in the pouch, would be my 18 inch Ang Khola Kukri or an axe for extremely heavy chopping and splitting. Even then I truly believe the Beck would see me through alone if that's all I had. It would force me to improvise and adapt to the situation.
 
That's a good point. I have always been a big blade user myself. I don't have a specific reason, just enjoy using them I guess. I always practice some type of primitive skills when out and about, and play a sort of game to see what I can make, or what I can get by without. I was very tempted to get a TOPS Tracker, but reading this, I will most likely place an order for a Beck. I've wanted one since first laying eyes on it back in '95 in TK! I like the Scout style sheath where I can just wear it without it flopping around on my leg. If you get a chance, I'd love to hear your impressions of using each function of the tool. (As a draw knife, straightening arrow shafts etc., building trap parts etc.)
 
tknife,
Keep checking back for updates.
I will eventually get to comparing the how to's of the knife and different uses for each cutting edge as well as making improvised tools and shelters.
I should have pictures as well, but I have no idea how to post them. I will need help with that.

I had never seen that article before today. I just got it in the mail today.:) (thanks big guy)
 
Vermonster, when the specs say the tang is tapered, what does this mean? Does the 1/4 steel taper down to a thinner thickness, or is the handle width taper down? I basically mean is it 1/4 stock from tip to the Tang, or no. Also where do you live in Vermont. My family used to have a house in North Hero. I would love to move back someday, preferably sooner than later. Finally, I have a Tops Tracker. I kinda want both. What are your thoughts on this. They seem so much different from your posts so I kinda justify it. Should I go ahead and sell the Tops or keep it. Later
 
I sent in a down payment on a W.S.K. yesterday, man I can't wait ! My real job requires me to work with wood, so I'm mkaing a really nice display case for it so it will have a proper home once I get it.

Thanks for all the great reviews Vermonster. Keep 'em coming!

"Survival, that's the game"
Click to expand...
 
greenbladepb,

The entire spine of the knife is 1/4 inch, the tang tapers down from 1/4 to a little over 1/8 inch by the time it reaches the butt of the knife between the heavy bolted on thick micarta slabs. The handle width remains the same, the slabs get thicker to compensate where the tang tapers. Believe me when I say, there is no loss of strength in this tapered tang. The butt of the tang is also "spring tempered" to resist denting or peening if the knife is dropped or pounded on (another cool little detail).

I would keep it if you can. They are very different blades. But if you can't and the TOPS is not used you could sell it, then order your WSK from Dave. You can always get one of the production models but who knows how many orders Dave will get in the near future. I would get your order in now while you still can without a long wait time. Either way get one. You will be glad you did.

J.P.,
Awesome!! Being a knifemaker yourself, you are going to really appreciate the work that goes into building these blades.
 
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