Dealers: What's the deal?

[Esav Benyamin]

The problem with threads like this is the temptation to analyze each others' motives.

Maybe we need someone to send me the questions, have me ask them, and wait for dispassionate, reasoned, impersonal answers to roll in.

There's no need for hurt feelings. Just as no one has to buy a knife they feel is over-priced, so too no one has to answer a question they feel is trolling for a problematic response. Standard Bladeforums rule: don't annoy each other, and don't be easily annoyed.

Peace.

 

[JAB]

Everyone has an iTrader rating here. Just like on eBay, you can see their percentage of successful deals, the number of how many unique buyers/sellers they've dealt with, and the total number of deals feedback was submitted for. Simply click on the member's name in any post they've made, then in the drop down menu, click "View Profile", and on the page after it loads, click the "Check Feedback" tab. Between this and searching their name in the feedback forum, The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly in the Exchange you will get a good indication on whether or not you will want to deal with a particular Buyer/Seller.

Even better - now, when one posts a thread in the X, their feedback score (# and %) is displayed right below their stats.:thumbup:

 

[Jaxx]

The problem with threads like this is the temptation to analyze each others' motives.

Maybe we need someone to send me the questions, have me ask them, and wait for dispassionate, reasoned, impersonal answers to roll in.

There's no need for hurt feelings. Just as no one has to buy a knife they feel is over-priced, so too no one has to answer a question they feel is trolling for a problematic response. Standard Bladeforums rule: don't annoy each other, and don't be easily annoyed.

Peace.

Sweet! I LIKE this idea a lot!! :thumbup:

Even better - now, when one posts a thread in the X, their feedback score (# and %) is displayed right below their stats.:thumbup:

I hadn't noticed this yet, but that's very cool! Thank you for mentioning this here. :thumbup:

 

[Last Visible Canary]

I�m not contesting your statement of Busse knives in mint condition generally increase in value. I disagree that all (or most) of Busse knives will eventually bring in 4xMSRP (or something along those numbers), regardless of how long the seller is willing to wait.
Additionally, if there were a model consistently fetching those numbers on secondary markets, this model would be quickly reintroduced I imagine.

I didn't say that all or most models would bring in 4x msrp. I said that people price their items high because they are likely to find a buyer for it a that price eventually - however, the higher the price the longer they will have to wait. If you price a sar5 at 1,200$ your will have to wait for someone who believes it's the rarest model of them all, or for there to be no sar5's left on the after market for long enough that one random lone collector who has lots of spare cash is willing to spend that much money on it. Both are pretty rare occurances, so you might have to wait until the grave.

I don�t want to go there as I�m unfamiliar with this business, but I was talking more about guys trying to go for a quick flip and getting "stuck" rather than dealers with large inventories.

Okay, the original post of this thread was about dealers specifically, so my comments are regarding them.

Again, I�m not clear on why a dealer or anyone else for that matter has to justify their way of doing things. Sales are the best indicator of such conduct.

Let me clear up some more then. I think you were looking to stir up some $hit with your OP “questions”
LVC gave very informative and comprehensive answers; it seems there is still not enough drama for you, needed to drag the dealers in. Keep it up.

The original set of questions was asking why certain things are the way they are. If a person asks for an explanation about how something works or why something is the way it is they deserve honest answers. Previous threads regarding dealers start with the person being upset over the situation, this thread started with simple questions. I have no reason to assume that any ill will was intended because of that. The dealers don't need to justify their actions unless they break a stated rule, but that does not mean that explanations of their actions by others should in any way be taboo'd.

 

[JAB]

I hadn't noticed this yet, but that's very cool! Thank you for mentioning this here. :thumbup:

No problem. IMO it's one of the best features of the new software. (Almost* made all the headaches and teething pains worthwhile... )





*J/k if ya happen to be reading this, Spark.

 

[Arfropubes]

I dont know if what i have to say matters but why not clean the dealers forum up its really messy with the locked threads , dead threads threads with only one knife out of ten left to sell etc plus in my opinion the general disorganization makes is very time consuming to look for what you want or even to browse.

have a look at straightrazorplace.com classifieds very tidy and very fair also in the way everything is marketed.

sorry just my 2 cents worth.

take care and have a nice day .

 

[jnphares]

As I said over in the Scrap Yard forum, if you don't have a proxy to buy for you, then dealers (or flippers, which aren't quite the same thing) may be your only chance to buy a knife from a show that you didn't attend. There are expenses when one goes to a show: transportation, possibly lodging, parking/entry fees, sales tax, and time. If you figure in total costs, the markup often isn't as steep as it seems initially. I sometimes (too frequently) sell at "my cost", which is just MSRP + tax or shipping to me + shipping to them. I do that to be a nice guy, but at the same time I also tell myself that my Busse Combat/Swamp Rat/Scrap Yard knives are an investment, and selling at break-even (not even adding in the cost of gas) isn't good investment behavior.

Dealers are folks who sell over a certain threshold volume of knives; I don't recall the volume offhand, but I bet Jaxx knows and might say. It doesn't mean they own a store or a company, just that they sell knives frequently. For Busse Knives, everybody has the same opportunity to buy -- if you had to work, or had family obligations, or decided the show was too far away, then you made a choice to not participate. If, after the fact, you want the benefits of participation, then you should expect to pay a premium for it. At that point it just comes down to how much markup is fair, and as has been pointed out, if you think their price is too high, don't buy from them. The point I'm trying to make is that there are expenses -- if you buy from a 'ganza, expect to add $14.95 for the first knife and $4.00 for each additional for shipping; if you go to a show, there's travel expenses and tax, and in either case, there's an investment of time. If, on top of that, they're sending a package to you, then they're not getting rich by charging more than MSRP, and you make the decision about how much is too much -- if nobody pays the asking price, they'll either have to drop it or hold onto what they're selling forever. Dealers provide a service by making knives available that wouldn't otherwise be unless you go yourself or can get a proxy who scores for you.

The other item, about removing prices from sales threads -- I don't like it, but can't do anything about someone else's post. However, when I buy something from the Exchange, I include the price I'm paying in my "I'll take it" post so that the price remains unless the thread is removed.

 

[BigLebowski65]

I didn't say that all or most models would bring in 4x msrp. ….

From the quote below I inferred (apparently incorrectly) you were talking about most of the models:

I guess the short version, predicated on busse not having a constant production line up, is this: why would someone price their knife 4x higher then the guy next to him? because he will eventually sell it.

Also not so sure about making your point off of my reply to a different post, more like taking it out of context.

In conclusion; the world of collectors paying this kind of money for those blades is completely alien to me, I’m not going to pretend I understand it.

 

[Last Visible Canary]

If it was able to be read that way then I didn't do a good enough job being clear in my choice of langauge.

 

[lsheldon]

Excellent points, and that about sums up my feelings on this as well...:thumbup:

As I said over in the Scrap Yard forum, if you don't have a proxy to buy for you, then dealers (or flippers, which aren't quite the same thing) may be your only chance to buy a knife from a show that you didn't attend. There are expenses when one goes to a show: transportation, possibly lodging, parking/entry fees, sales tax, and time. If you figure in total costs, the markup often isn't as steep as it seems initially. I sometimes (too frequently) sell at "my cost", which is just MSRP + tax or shipping to me + shipping to them. I do that to be a nice guy, but at the same time I also tell myself that my Busse Combat/Swamp Rat/Scrap Yard knives are an investment, and selling at break-even (not even adding in the cost of gas) isn't good investment behavior.

Dealers are folks who sell over a certain threshold volume of knives; I don't recall the volume offhand, but I bet Jaxx knows and might say. It doesn't mean they own a store or a company, just that they sell knives frequently. For Busse Knives, everybody has the same opportunity to buy -- if you had to work, or had family obligations, or decided the show was too far away, then you made a choice to not participate. If, after the fact, you want the benefits of participation, then you should expect to pay a premium for it. At that point it just comes down to how much markup is fair, and as has been pointed out, if you think their price is too high, don't buy from them. The point I'm trying to make is that there are expenses -- if you buy from a 'ganza, expect to add $14.95 for the first knife and $4.00 for each additional for shipping; if you go to a show, there's travel expenses and tax, and in either case, there's an investment of time. If, on top of that, they're sending a package to you, then they're not getting rich by charging more than MSRP, and you make the decision about how much is too much -- if nobody pays the asking price, they'll either have to drop it or hold onto what they're selling forever. Dealers provide a service by making knives available that wouldn't otherwise be unless you go yourself or can get a proxy who scores for you.

The other item, about removing prices from sales threads -- I don't like it, but can't do anything about someone else's post. However, when I buy something from the Exchange, I include the price I'm paying in my "I'll take it" post so that the price remains unless the thread is removed.

 

[Skrapmetal]

The dealers make knives available to me that I wouldn't otherwise have a chance at since I can't make it to shows. If they price them too high, I don't buy them. If I feel that the blade is worth the price to me, I buy it.

It's a pretty straightforward arrangement. I've got no complaints.

 

[wolfdad]

You mean other than dericdesmond, who for now is sailing under a Dealer's membership?

congrats to dericdesmond for the upgrade to dealer. I believe he will make a good addition to the list of dealers on here.

 

[catchindirtbags]

Not trying to be a smartass but this is all about capitalism. 2 guys selling same product are free to set their own prices and if the guy with the higher prices sells his stuff at a velocity he likes than he'll stick to it. However, if he sells the price high and doesn't sell then he has a decision to make. One that suits HIS business needs and plans.

Removing prices if given the option to do so is a smart business move. Were I a seller of anything and I was given the opportunity to do something like that instead of getting stuck in to 1 price I'd certainly do it. It isn't morally or any other way wrong it just makes sense. I think most guys know that they can get 50 bucks for something today but maybe for the same item tomorrow, someone might have more money and more desire to part with said money. So it makes sense to dump the price in hopes you can make more next time.

Don't get me wrong I share the frustration but if they are allowed to do this and allowed to resell knives they just bought here than more power to them. They went to the show, they carted em home, they typed up the ad and have to deliver the product so in the interest of how things work, I wish them the best of luck.

 

[TewlMakr]

"What'cha doin with that lawnmower blade Karl?"
"I aim to SELL it to ya!!!"

 

[LMT66]

............

 

[adrock1978]

The original set of questions was asking why certain things are the way they are. If a person asks for an explanation about how something works or why something is the way it is they deserve honest answers. Previous threads regarding dealers start with the person being upset over the situation, this thread started with simple questions. I have no reason to assume that any ill will was intended because of that. The dealers don't need to justify their actions unless they break a stated rule, but that does not mean that explanations of their actions by others should in any way be taboo'd.

Thank you. As I stated up front, I wasn't implying anything negative or requiring any dealer to justify anything. I wasn't judging or suggesting anything change. If my original post implied ANYTHING its that I didn't like people removing prices, but that is not specific to dealers. I didn't ask anyone to take sides or defend anything. It is nice to see the thread went unlocked, which says a lot for all of us, but it really didn't need 6 pages of scrutiny. Just like LVC said, it shouldn't be taboo for me to question a dealer's methods. I have the right to ask anything I want about an $800 knife I'm about to purchase, just as the dealer is allowed to fix any price tag to it, and sell it by any means he wants within forum rules.

 

[Arakiel]

He will as long as the market allows it, as shown by the case of the 1,200$ SHBM. It just took 5 years.

Exactly. Which is why I said that the original purchase price from Busse is irrelevant. What I want is a graph of pieces available/selling price for each model since first introduced. I am positive it will illustrate the rule of supply and demand. Based upon a known quantity currently available, and selling prices for that quantity available in past, it is then possible to determine if a price is acceptable to me.
Failing that, I just wing it. lol

 

[tobotech]

There is a perception A by some on this board that I am anti-capitalism, and anti-dealer, and that is not the case.
I would like to clarify my position by providing a response to Question 3 in the OP. I hope those who carry this concept of me may read this thread to gain a more accurate conception.


The following may contribute to the perception of “unfair” that some experience in the buying and selling of knives here (and other places), AND answer question 3 of the OP.

I understand there is a camaraderie among many of the members here that among other benefits, contributes to sweetheart deals between them. There time invested in that camaraderie, it is not free. Do I wish I shared this camaraderie? Who doesn’t appreciate feeling part of a community and bonding with fellow like-minded individuals?
I experience this with just a couple members, and maybe that number will grow as time goes on.

I also understand that those that f5 the X, and due to time spent doing research, are able to act quickly and decisively and ‘snag’ deals off the exchange. This action can lead to envy, resentment, and frustration on the part of those who are not fast enough. That feeling is THEIR OWN fault. If it means that much to them, they can f5 some more and make a database of what knives sell for what in what condition and how fast, so that they can make fast decisions on whether a freshly posted offer is a ‘deal’ and compete with the dealers and flippers. Don’t be a player hater, if you can’t beat them, join them.

I understand the massive costs involved in attending shows like blade. There are benefits in addition to acquiring knives that are below their market value. Benefits such as increased camaraderie, enjoyment of leisure time, the thrill of the hunt, personal knowledge of particular blades (holding it in the hand!) and others help justify this cost.
I am unable to attend, so I am left with precisely three options. Get a proxy (camaraderie helps), pay what the knives go for on the x, or don’t buy them. If a dealer/flipper wants to charge XXX.xx for their knife, that is their prerogative, and it is my prerogative to either purchase or not purchase said knife. In the situation of show blades, they are providing a service in allowing an opportunity to acquire something that was previously unobtainable. They should be rewarded for their time and risk.


The puritan ethic contributed to the success of the fine county of USA. The work hard save hard and make a buck ethic. Making money was a sign of God's blessing, and was seen as doing the will of God.

 

[adrock1978]

Why were you up at 3am, digging up 3 month old threads? I'll be your Blade Forums buddy if you're taking applications. :thumbup:

 

[AussieKnifeMan]

There is a perception A by some on this board that I am anti-capitalism, and anti-dealer, and that is not the case.
I would like to clarify my position by providing a response to Question 3 in the OP. I hope those who carry this concept of me may read this thread to gain a more accurate conception.


The following may contribute to the perception of “unfair” that some experience in the buying and selling of knives here (and other places), AND answer question 3 of the OP.

I understand there is a camaraderie among many of the members here that among other benefits, contributes to sweetheart deals between them. There time invested in that camaraderie, it is not free. Do I wish I shared this camaraderie? Who doesn’t appreciate feeling part of a community and bonding with fellow like-minded individuals?
I experience this with just a couple members, and maybe that number will grow as time goes on.

I also understand that those that f5 the X, and due to time spent doing research, are able to act quickly and decisively and ‘snag’ deals off the exchange. This action can lead to envy, resentment, and frustration on the part of those who are not fast enough. That feeling is THEIR OWN fault. If it means that much to them, they can f5 some more and make a database of what knives sell for what in what condition and how fast, so that they can make fast decisions on whether a freshly posted offer is a ‘deal’ and compete with the dealers and flippers. Don’t be a player hater, if you can’t beat them, join them.

I understand the massive costs involved in attending shows like blade. There are benefits in addition to acquiring knives that are below their market value. Benefits such as increased camaraderie, enjoyment of leisure time, the thrill of the hunt, personal knowledge of particular blades (holding it in the hand!) and others help justify this cost.
I am unable to attend, so I am left with precisely three options. Get a proxy (camaraderie helps), pay what the knives go for on the x, or don’t buy them. If a dealer/flipper wants to charge XXX.xx for their knife, that is their prerogative, and it is my prerogative to either purchase or not purchase said knife. In the situation of show blades, they are providing a service in allowing an opportunity to acquire something that was previously unobtainable. They should be rewarded for their time and risk.


The puritan ethic contributed to the success of the fine county of USA. The work hard save hard and make a buck ethic. Making money was a sign of God's blessing, and was seen as doing the will of God.

WELL SAID ^:thumbup:^:thumbup:^:thumbup:^