dealing with Andrew Clifford Knives

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I have no connection to any party here. I will say that it is interesting how Gaston is somehow being portrayed as a bully here for just sharing his experiences and how the seller has forcefully responded and keeps posting and tarnishing himself and others in this he said, she said battle. The knife took a long time ship, it didn't come as described and had bad heat treat. The knife was reground and the heat treat was still bad. I'm sure the truth is more complicated than that but customer feedback is often best aired in public and tests the business acumen and character of all involved.

Andrew, best wishes and prayers for you and your family.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I have no connection to any party here. I will say that it is interesting how Gaston is somehow being portrayed as a bully here for just sharing his experiences and how the seller has forcefully responded and keeps posting and tarnishing himself and others in this he said, she said battle. The knife took a long time ship, it didn't come as described and had bad heat treat. The knife was reground and the heat treat was still bad. I'm sure the truth is more complicated than that but customer feedback is often best aired in public and tests the business acumen and character of all involved.

Andrew, best wishes and prayers for you and your family.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Forcefully responded are you joking ? He hasn't forcefully anything the op came here and alerted us of a problem did he do it on eBay to his own words no he didn't. The op came here to bash a maker hoping to tarnish a name without recourse. Bad heat treat you know it had a bad heat treat? just the op words over the accused but due other fingers pointed from the op about bad heat treats I doubt it . Patterns repeat themselves so the op has proven
 
I did not contact the maker as I was not interested in pursuing the matter further, since the knife was heavily re-ground by Josh of REK, which I figured voided any warranty.

:eek::dejection: There is the reason why the edge rolled lol. re-grounding HT blade = need for new HT plus changing the geometry omg
 
Steve, you may want to research Gaston a little before you take one side or the other on this.
This is not the first time he has bashed a maker/knife because the knife didn't work the way he thought it should after heavy modifications. Refer to "The Hollow Handle Knife Thread" for some background.

I'm not an expert, but there is a lot of telling things that come out in his posts.
Pick one simple thing like: "24 degrees inclusive", then tie it to "survival knife" used for chopping tree limbs.

A Japanese chef's knife, which is used for cutting soft things (primarily vegetables, some meats, etc, never bone) is sharpened at between 20 and 30 degrees inclusive.
Who would expect that knife to handle chopping wood?
Who would complain that something failed after they heavily modified it?
Go to Chevy and tell them your 'Vette engine blew after you put a turbo kit on it and kicked up the HP by 75%, and you'd like it warrantied.
Prepare to go pee up a rope.

I don't know Gaston and I don't want to cast aspersions, but his posts that I have read do not paint a very good picture.
 
Sorry,
I should have followed my own advice...
 
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Just wanted to chime in here as Andrew contacted me earlier. Yes I did regrind the knife, the entire primary grind.

Let me explain something about my methods... I use a Wilmont TAG grinder, which is a professional knife maker grinder w/ a variable frequency drive which allows me to slow it down to a crawl when I want to. When I regrind a blade, I almost NEVER go over 30% power, which w/ my set up equates to around 1500 fps, and actual edge work is even slower, around 800 fps normally. In addition to this, I have converted this grinder to be cooled w/ a coolant being sprayed on the belt while grinding.

I doubt there was any risk whatsoever of any temper damage in any knives I have reground.

Hope you guys get it worked out, best of wishes.
 
Just wanted to chime in here as Andrew contacted me earlier. Yes I did regrind the knife, the entire primary grind.

Let me explain something about my methods... I use a Wilmont TAG grinder, which is a professional knife maker grinder w/ a variable frequency drive which allows me to slow it down to a crawl when I want to. When I regrind a blade, I almost NEVER go over 30% power, which w/ my set up equates to around 1500 fps, and actual edge work is even slower, around 800 fps normally. In addition to this, I have converted this grinder to be cooled w/ a coolant being sprayed on the belt while grinding.

I doubt there was any risk whatsoever of any temper damage in any knives I have reground.

Hope you guys get it worked out, best of wishes.



Thanks for talking with me, Josh. I appreciate the time, response especially this late in your neck of the woods. As Josh stated he didn't notice anything in particular in regard to the hardness. While grinding is not Rockwell testing, one knows due to experience whether there is something amiss.

The knife was left for the owner to finish up, and, well, that says a lot. Changing a knife after already finished is a job that rests on the shoulders of the person who makes the changes. I am confident in Josh's details of what he did with the knife. This one really rests on the OP/buyer. How is it that the other two ACK SLY II's heat treated at the same time as the OP's are kicking fine and without issues, used daily, mind you?
 
I have no connection to any party here. I will say that it is interesting how Gaston is somehow being portrayed as a bully here for just sharing his experiences and how the seller has forcefully responded and keeps posting and tarnishing himself and others in this he said, she said battle. The knife took a long time ship, it didn't come as described and had bad heat treat. The knife was reground and the heat treat was still bad. I'm sure the truth is more complicated than that but customer feedback is often best aired in public and tests the business acumen and character of all involved.

Andrew, best wishes and prayers for you and your family.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Heat treat wasn't/isn't bad. That has been pretty much confirmed. What was "bad" was the bevel the OP put on it, quite fitting for a kitchen knife, not good for a survival knife and definitely not good as a chopping tool. There is no proving it either way as the knife is no longer available for ME to look at, test.

As stated the delay in shipping was due to it being sent to Vancouver, CA, first by mistake. We got it back and resent it to the correct part of Canada.

this is my name and business, how else is one supposed to respond?! When you don't respond that looks well worse than taking zero action!
 
Steve, you may want to research Gaston a little before you take one side or the other on this.
This is not the first time he has bashed a maker/knife because the knife didn't work the way he thought it should after heavy modifications. Refer to "The Hollow Handle Knife Thread" for some background.

I'm not an expert, but there is a lot of telling things that come out in his posts.
Pick one simple thing like: "24 degrees inclusive", then tie it to "survival knife" used for chopping tree limbs.

A Japanese chef's knife, which is used for cutting soft things (primarily vegetables, some meats, etc, never bone) is sharpened at between 20 and 30 degrees inclusive.
Who would expect that knife to handle chopping wood?
Who would complain that something failed after they heavily modified it?
Go to Chevy and tell them your 'Vette engine blew after you put a turbo kit on it and kicked up the HP by 75%, and you'd like it warrantied.
Prepare to go pee up a rope.

I don't know Gaston and I don't want to cast aspersions, but his posts that I have read do not paint a very good picture.


Great point. I'm glad there are members that understand my argument.
 
Assuming everything Gaston said is true...

He got wasn't happy with the shipping speed, but instead of taking it up with the maker/seller, gave positive feedback.

He wasn't happy with the edge, but instead of contacting the maker/seller, modified it.

He still wasn't happy with the edge, but instead of contacting the maker/seller he starts a negative thread behind themaker/seller's back.

Hmmm.

Even IF Gaston is being truthful here, he's handled things horribly.
 
Assuming everything Gaston said is true...

He got wasn't happy with the shipping speed, but instead of taking it up with the maker/seller, gave positive feedback.

He wasn't happy with the edge, but instead of contacting the maker/seller, modified it.

He still wasn't happy with the edge, but instead of contacting the maker/seller he starts a negative thread behind themaker/seller's back.

Hmmm.

Even IF Gaston is being truthful here, he's handled things horribly.

Obviously there wasn't any issues with the knife prior. He critiqued it to death in The Hollow Handle knife thread, but that's okay, everyone has their opinion, although I have heard well less from people that use their ACK SLY II's near daily. Had he come to me prior to modifying the knife we could have gotten to the bottom of it with a simple test. I cannot express enough that the degree of bevel he put on is not key for chopping. It didn't work on the Neeley SA9 he modified himself, either.
 
Being behind, on top of being backlogged is no fun and delivery times suffer. It is where I have been for several years. To the point that I quit taking orders, so, with that said, I am and have been, guilty of missing my deadlines. His situation was somewhat different.

I do believe it is time for a career change. Lol
 
Informative thread.

I'm glad the maker responded.

I get most of my ignore list based on the feedback forum. To make sure I don't forget about how people behave and handle them selves in deals.

The maker has responded well, and pointed out issues I have with the OP's handling of this thread.


I usually disagree with much of what the OP posts.

add another to the ignore list.
 
I found the list of messages in my Email from Sonnerboomer with the dates, just to give a clearer picture.

For the record, I will point out I no longer believe the knife was made after I won the auction: The series of delays suggested this, but quite frankly I should not insinuate anything like this without proof...: My apologies to the maker on this issue... Even if the edge had some kind of trouble holding together, after I thinned it, the knife was still obviously the product of someone who knows what he is doing and is proud of it. I should have mentioned the seller's poor performance alone, without all this edge rolling issue: The only reason I did this is because I knew the seller was the maker's nephew.

I did attempt to communicate directly with the maker on his website, and I received no reply, which did not leave a favourable impression...: I had asked to confirm the Nephew's relationship to him, as that was the only thing that kept me from cancelling the transaction...

For an auction win, any large delay in shipping is not acceptable, so I should have stuck with a bad Ebay seller feedback and not drag the maker into this months later...: It was just an old post of mine that I came across that inspired this... Hopefully mentioning the edge problem or whatever it was will help solve a QC issue for the maker, but it wasn't really relevant to the main subject... It is just that the seller being a nephew, I amalgamated both issues as one...

Here the sequence (it was more like a four week delay, not six weeks)

YOU WON: Custom Andrew Clifford Lile style SLY 2 Rambo FB bowie survival knife bushcraft:

Pièces jointes:


Date: 06/09/15 à 18:00

First message: 09/09/15 (so a full 3 days later)

09/09/15 à 17:02


This member has a question for you.


Dear 2011gaston444,

My husband ordered an EZE LAP sharpener to go with this knife. I think it is supposed to be here tomorrow? He is out of town and not expected back until late tonight, early morning. I see he already mentioned that in the invoice. I think he needs to have his uncle sign the certificate of authenticity. He reprinted it onto better certificate paper, but Andy forgot to sign it. I just wanted to give you a heads up. -


- soonerboomer

Second message: 13/09/15, (seven days after winning):


Okay, in that case I will ship it out without having uncle Andy signing the certificate. I missed the post office yesterday as my trip ran over due to trouble with my motorcycle on our way home. I apologize. Anyhow, it is set to be picked up tomorrow by USPS. Thank you for the purchase, Gaston. I will follow up with tracking info. Contact me should you need to. -


- soonerboomer Click the Respond button to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply
Respond


third message: 15/09/15, (nine days after winning the auction):



ETA: Wed. 16 Sep. - Wed. 23 Sep. to (my correct address).



eBay

Hi Gaston - Your order has shipped to (my correct address).



(that is weird that it was announced as shipped, when it turned out not to be)


Fourth message: 18/09/15 (twelve days after auction):

Dear 2011gaston444,

Gaston, Apparently there is a problem with shipping. I was not able to post the tracking info to the auction listing info. I was offline while our DSL is being re-installed.

PLEASE do not worry. I will get it taken care of. I have several of these knives, new/unused, and can send a replacement if needed. I sell unclaimed knives for my uncle, Andrew. We have you covered either way. We will talk more as soon as I get to the post office to find out what the deal is. I have communicated with you in regards to this knife before, I know you are a good person. I hope you have gotten the same impression from me? I value my ebay privileges and good reputation as a seller.


- soonerboomer


Fifth message: 24/09/15 (18 days after auction)

Dear 2011gaston444,

Gaston, The knife was mistakenly sent to another buyer (by mistake). I paid for the knife to be returned immediately. The recipient noticed the mistake and contacted me while he was AT the post office. He immediately put it back in the mail, he never opened it. I dropped it off after receiving it is now at the post office to be resent to you. I am sorry for the delay and mixup. I take full responsibility, however, it is uncle Andy's mistake. (the maker). I asked him to send the knife out as I was out of town. We work together. He stated that you can contact him directly and he will offer you a discount on any future purchase from him IF you should purchase in the future due to his mistake. We are both glad you won the knife. I do hope you enjoy it. You can check the tracking number under the auction/listing info in your buyer dashboard. I will check on it periodically myself. I am looking forward to doing more business with you, Gaston. Thank you for your patience and understanding as these things can happen. -Dan

- soonerboomer


sixth message: 26/09/15, (20 days after the auction):

Dear 2011gaston444,

Gaston, your knife/sheath have left the Los Angeles USPS carrier station and is on it's way to Canada. I will continue to monitor it's journey to you. Thanks again.... talk to you soon.

- soonerboomer

Seventh message: (also on the 26th):

Dear 2011gaston444,

It should be there by October 3rd. In my experience it should only take 3 days to clear customs, and it will be in Canadian customs by Tuesday. I'm sorry. It was an honest mistake on our part. This knife went 3 years unpaid. We waited for the buyer to round up the $750.00. By the anniversary of the 3rd year Andy had finally had enough of waiting. These are great user knives. I do hope you enjoy. I will keep in contact.....

- soonerboomer

eight (and last) message: (29/09/15):

Dear 2011gaston444,

The knife departed Montreal on the 27th, so it is on it's way to you. I will be listing another "rare" #1 ACK tonight.



What is strange is that during this whole time of following up, I do not remember ever getting a tracking number, and obviously that explains why he is updating me on the package progression... That in itself sounds fishy... Into October was the fourth week and the package came at least a full month and probably more late, I vaguely remember sometime in early October and a true figure of over 30 days...: It was not six weeks obviously, more like four, but still very strange for an item that was offered for bidding...

Again, I no longer believe the edge problem was a deliberate attempt to cheat me with a production shortcut. I do believe the edge problem was worse than any knife I have ever tested, even in the initial not-thinned condition, but with the knife heavily thinned out I felt I had no recourse (it was not outrageously thick to begin with, at about 0.040" behind the edge, but still too thick for me)

Hopefully the edge issue was a one-off accident: If there is nothing obviously wrong with your ACK's edge-holding while chopping, your knife is probably fine.

The lack of serial number (when one was promised in the auction) does add up to a long series of weird details... However I gave the knife away to my usual channel of knives that "don't make it", and I no longer want to think about this, or stir up any more trouble...: This will be my last post in this thread.

Hopefully the maker will find whatever was the cause of the edge issue, and his nephew will learn to auction only items that are immediately in hand...

Gaston
 
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I wish this thread would fall into the deepest pit of blade forums hell.

I see a maker that is probably going through the worst point of his life with his wife and all. I would assume it's taking its toll on him in every way it can a man . His personal life his business everything .

On top of all else he has going on in his personal life now this non issue .

I just hope anyone that comes across this thread in a search takes the time to actually read the thread and not just the title.

Mr. Gaston , would you say this thread title deserves to be changed ? If people see it and don't read the thread it could hurt the man's business . You've said yourself your done with it . Do the right thing Mr. Gaston..
 
I wish this thread would fall into the deepest pit of blade forums hell.

I see a maker that is probably going through the worst point of his life with his wife and all. I would assume it's taking its toll on him in every way it can a man . His personal life his business everything .

On top of all else he has going on in his personal life now this non issue .

I just hope anyone that comes across this thread in a search takes the time to actually read the thread and not just the title.

Mr. Gaston , would you say this thread title deserves to be changed! If people see it and don't read the thread it could hurt the man's business . Do the right thing Mr. Gaston..

^ +1 Changing the title of your thread, Gaston. :thumbup:
 
.. Hopefully mentioning the edge problem or whatever it was will help solve a QC issue for the maker, but it wasn't really relevant to the main subject...




Hopefully the edge issue was a one-off accident: If there is nothing obviously wrong with your ACK's edge-holding while chopping, your knife is probably fine.


Hopefully the maker will find whatever was the cause of the edge issue,
Gaston

Gaston, I believe it is crystal clear to everyone and particularly to the maker that "whatever was the cause of the edge issue"........WAS YOU!

Best regards,

Psul
 
I found the list of messages in my Email from Sonnerboomer with the dates, just to give a clearer picture.

For the record, I will point out I no longer believe the knife was made after I won the auction: The series of delays suggested this, but quite frankly I should not insinuate anything like this without proof...: My apologies to the maker on this issue... Even if the edge had some kind of trouble holding together, after I thinned it, the knife was still obviously the product of someone who knows what he is doing and is proud of it. I should have mentioned the seller's poor performance alone, without all this edge rolling issue: The only reason I did this is because I knew the seller was the maker's nephew.

I did attempt to communicate directly with the maker on his website, and I received no reply, which did not leave a favourable impression...: I had asked to confirm the Nephew's relationship to him, as that was the only thing that kept me from cancelling the transaction...

For an auction win, any large delay in shipping is not acceptable, so I should have stuck with a bad Ebay seller feedback and not drag the maker into this months later...: It was just an old post of mine that I came across that inspired this... Hopefully mentioning the edge problem or whatever it was will help solve a QC issue for the maker, but it wasn't really relevant to the main subject... It is just that the seller being a nephew, I amalgamated both issues as one...

Here the sequence (it was more like a four week delay, not six weeks)

YOU WON: Custom Andrew Clifford Lile style SLY 2 Rambo FB bowie survival knife bushcraft:

Pièces jointes:


Date: 06/09/15 à 18:00

First message: 09/09/15 (so a full 3 days later)

09/09/15 à 17:02


This member has a question for you.


Dear 2011gaston444,

My husband ordered an EZE LAP sharpener to go with this knife. I think it is supposed to be here tomorrow? He is out of town and not expected back until late tonight, early morning. I see he already mentioned that in the invoice. I think he needs to have his uncle sign the certificate of authenticity. He reprinted it onto better certificate paper, but Andy forgot to sign it. I just wanted to give you a heads up. -


- soonerboomer

Second message: 13/09/15, (seven days after winning):


Okay, in that case I will ship it out without having uncle Andy signing the certificate. I missed the post office yesterday as my trip ran over due to trouble with my motorcycle on our way home. I apologize. Anyhow, it is set to be picked up tomorrow by USPS. Thank you for the purchase, Gaston. I will follow up with tracking info. Contact me should you need to. -


- soonerboomer Click the Respond button to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply
Respond


third message: 15/09/15, (nine days after winning the auction):



ETA: Wed. 16 Sep. - Wed. 23 Sep. to (my correct address).



eBay

Hi Gaston - Your order has shipped to (my correct address).



(that is weird that it was announced as shipped, when it turned out not to be)


Fourth message: 18/09/15 (twelve days after auction):

Dear 2011gaston444,

Gaston, Apparently there is a problem with shipping. I was not able to post the tracking info to the auction listing info. I was offline while our DSL is being re-installed.

PLEASE do not worry. I will get it taken care of. I have several of these knives, new/unused, and can send a replacement if needed. I sell unclaimed knives for my uncle, Andrew. We have you covered either way. We will talk more as soon as I get to the post office to find out what the deal is. I have communicated with you in regards to this knife before, I know you are a good person. I hope you have gotten the same impression from me? I value my ebay privileges and good reputation as a seller.


- soonerboomer


Fifth message: 24/09/15 (18 days after auction)

Dear 2011gaston444,

Gaston, The knife was mistakenly sent to another buyer (by mistake). I paid for the knife to be returned immediately. The recipient noticed the mistake and contacted me while he was AT the post office. He immediately put it back in the mail, he never opened it. I dropped it off after receiving it is now at the post office to be resent to you. I am sorry for the delay and mixup. I take full responsibility, however, it is uncle Andy's mistake. (the maker). I asked him to send the knife out as I was out of town. We work together. He stated that you can contact him directly and he will offer you a discount on any future purchase from him IF you should purchase in the future due to his mistake. We are both glad you won the knife. I do hope you enjoy it. You can check the tracking number under the auction/listing info in your buyer dashboard. I will check on it periodically myself. I am looking forward to doing more business with you, Gaston. Thank you for your patience and understanding as these things can happen. -Dan

- soonerboomer


sixth message: 26/09/15, (20 days after the auction):

Dear 2011gaston444,

Gaston, your knife/sheath have left the Los Angeles USPS carrier station and is on it's way to Canada. I will continue to monitor it's journey to you. Thanks again.... talk to you soon.

- soonerboomer

Seventh message: (also on the 26th):

Dear 2011gaston444,

It should be there by October 3rd. In my experience it should only take 3 days to clear customs, and it will be in Canadian customs by Tuesday. I'm sorry. It was an honest mistake on our part. This knife went 3 years unpaid. We waited for the buyer to round up the $750.00. By the anniversary of the 3rd year Andy had finally had enough of waiting. These are great user knives. I do hope you enjoy. I will keep in contact.....

- soonerboomer

eight (and last) message: (29/09/15):

Dear 2011gaston444,

The knife departed Montreal on the 27th, so it is on it's way to you. I will be listing another "rare" #1 ACK tonight.



What is strange is that during this whole time of following up, I do not remember ever getting a tracking number, and obviously that explains why he is updating me on the package progression... That in itself sounds fishy... Into October was the fourth week and the package came at least a full month and probably more late, I vaguely remember sometime in early October and a true figure of over 30 days...: It was not six weeks obviously, more like four, but still very strange for an item that was offered for bidding...

Again, I no longer believe the edge problem was a deliberate attempt to cheat me with a production shortcut. I do believe the edge problem was worse than any knife I have ever tested, even in the initial not-thinned condition, but with the knife heavily thinned out I felt I had no recourse (it was not outrageously thick to begin with, at about 0.040" behind the edge, but still too thick for me)

Hopefully the edge issue was a one-off accident: If there is nothing obviously wrong with your ACK's edge-holding while chopping, your knife is probably fine.

The lack of serial number (when one was promised in the auction) does add up to a long series of weird details... However I gave the knife away to my usual channel of knives that "don't make it", and I no longer want to think about this, or stir up any more trouble...: This will be my last post in this thread.

Hopefully the maker will find whatever was the cause of the edge issue, and his nephew will learn to auction only items that are immediately in hand...

Gaston


Nice "editing" skills, Marty. You really are a piece of work, just as I have been told by people who have also dealt with you. You didn't care about the COA ( which with the numbered ACK SLY II's the serial number is on the COA-which you are informed of), you didn't care about the EZE LAP sharpener. You wanted the knife and we sent it to you. You were made aware of the delay and why. You had zero issues with any of this until 8-9 months later AFTER you screwed with the blade and refuse to blame yourself?! !!


You respond here in the open, but refused to respond to any of the emails I sent to you personally. I really don't think I need to say anymore. Waiting 8-9 months to say anything, failing to realize your mistake in altering the knife, giving it a kitchen knife bevel, THEN blaming the heat treat when it fails at chopping....how you fail to see where you should take responsibility in all this is much the same as you did with the Vaughn Neeley SA9....ZERO RESPONSIBILITY (even Sam Wilson pointed out where you were to blame on that knife), which is well documented here on BF.

I suggest you learn to make your own knives so you screw up your own works AND only have yourself to blame.
 
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You know full well that the tracking number was in with the auction listing info as the knife was shipped via eBay/PayPal.

It's funny how you troll my website, see that we are raffling off an ACK SLY II as a fundraiser for my wife's medical expenses then you come into BF and air your grievances WITHOUT contacting me first, without having any issues in the beginning until after you screwed with the blade, AND A WHOLE 8-9 months after the fact!!

You have issues, serious issues!!
 
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