death down under

[bobofish]

I can answer for myself that I don't care who would make a video like this, I would find it abhorrent. I couldn't care less if it was Bugs Bunny himself, he would deserve to be relentlessly mocked and criticized, and I would not purchase any products he had for sale, including the video.

 

[Cougar Allen]

There's no need to speculate about what if other people in the knife industry went hunting. There are plenty of hunters in the knife industry and many of them are well known here at Bladeforums. Will Fennel used to be a moderator here when he was a vice-president at Camillus; he left Camillus a couple of years before the end to pursue a career as a professional trap & skeet shooter. He tested Camillus prototypes on deer he shot. Larry Harley is a popular member and knifemaker. He guides pig hunts -- no gun, no bow, not even a spear -- just a knife. He makes knives for the purpose. Numerous other members hunt and some post pictures of their trophies in the Community Center forum, talk about guns and other hunting gear in the Gadgets & Gear forum, and of course talk about hunting knives all over Bladeforums.

Of course they're all hunters ... not slaughterers, or whatever is going on in that preview clip ... that doesn't look like hunting to me.

Has anyone seen the whole movie, or are we all going by the preview?

Does anyone have any facts about what happened to the meat? I think it's inappropriate to blame him for wasting the meat unless we have some evidence that he did. What we've actually seen in the preview is bad enough.

 

[hardheart]

essentially, LT did it, so it was probably a bad thing.

I swear, the man is gonna give breathing a bad rap on BF, and I don't know why. Take issue with design theft, take issue with insults to other brands, but don't sit down to pee because LT uses a urinal, everything he does isn't evil.

 

[jim preston]

I haven't seen the video, but it sounds to me like he was just slaughtering, something I don't appreciate. However, the animals could very well be feral pests, like wild pigs or something. Reminds of the scene from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, where they're killing a bunch of sperm whales. After being told by Captain Nemo that they are pests, Ned Land says something to the extent of, "I'm a hunter, not a butcher."

And while I respect the moderators and other members here and admit they are probably smarter than me, I agree that there is a little anti-CS/LT bias. Maybe it's just because of the people who try and defend CS/LT, like Tomohawk23, but I don't know

 

[Esav Benyamin]

This is not the Supreme Court of the United States. Bladeforums is under no obligation to enforce equality of treatment of every subject.

Moderators have no obligation to check their opinions at the door; we are part of the membership, and have our own points of view and the right to express them. I am under no obligation to respond to every question in the form others expect. If this leads others to misinterpret my reply, so be it. Anything we say can be misquoted and used against us.

Step right up and say what you like. Expect others to say what they like, too. Too many of them disagree with you? What a shame.

 

[enderwiggin]

Esav, you still haven't directly answered Ben's question.

My guess would be that he's avoiding the question because he knows Ben is setting up a straw man.

Hunting animals you intend to eat is honorable. Using large numbers of living creatures for target practice, with no other aim in mind, is not.

I don't care who you are, or what you've accomplished. That doesn't give you license to wave a moral "get out of jail free" pass every time you do something reprehensible.

 

[Gunfucius]

This is not the Supreme Court of the United States. Bladeforums is under no obligation to enforce equality of treatment of every subject.

Moderators have no obligation to check their opinions at the door; we are part of the membership, and have our own points of view and the right to express them. I am under no obligation to respond to every question in the form others expect. If this leads others to misinterpret my reply, so be it. Anything we say can be misquoted and used against us.

Step right up and say what you like. Expect others to say what they like, too. Too many of them disagree with you? What a shame.

I see. Not a direct answer, but it does answer my question.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Esav, you still haven't directly answered Ben's question. Hypothetically, IF one of the aforementioned knifemakers other than Lynn did the exact same thing as Thompson (made a video exactly as Thompson did, right down to the last detail), would you still hold the same opinion of the video? (I ask this not knowing what your opinion of the video is). I'm not trying to be a smart-arse either, but I AM curious as to your answer. The question isn't a hard one at all. My take on it, no matter WHO made the video, is that I have no problem with it as long as the meat gets eaten by someone, and the species populations don't suffer as a result of the hunting.

Edit: The reason Ben interpreted your answer the way he did, is that you came off as if you were dodging the question. Knowing you, I'm sure that isn't the case, but it did appear that way.

I see. Not a direct answer, but it does answer my question.

Talking outta both sides of your face, eh? Compliment him and then criticize him, implying you knew you were right about him being biased all along.:thumbdn:

3G

 

[Gunfucius]

My guess would be that he's avoiding the question because he knows Ben is setting up a straw man.

It seemed like a legitimate question to me.

Hunting animals you intend to eat is honorable. Using large numbers of living creatures for target practice, with no other aim in mind, is not.

The thing is, we don't know whether the meat was eaten or not. My question was, under the circumstances, would Esav have felt the same about the VIDEO (not the maker) IF (this word is important) another, more respected maker made the same type of video. Granted, they wouldn't make a video like that, but it doesn't de-legitimize the question.

I don't care who you are, or what you've accomplished. That doesn't give you license to wave a moral "get out of jail free" pass every time you do something reprehensible.

This is what I was saying earlier. I'm just curious if some of the people here would be less disgusted by a video like this if it was made by a more respected knife-maker. Its curiosity, nothing more. No strawman intended.

 

[Gunfucius]

Talking outta both sides of your face, eh? Compliment him and then criticize him, implying you knew you were right about him being biased all along.:thumbdn:

3G

Not quite. I had no clue one way or the other whether he was biased or not before his answer. That's what I was trying to figure out. Now I do know. That's my answer; take it or leave it.

 

[Jennifer_B]

http://www.coldsteel.com/vddu.html

"Additionally, he will be assisting property owners and various government departments throughout Australia to cull Buffalo, Red Deer, Fallow Deer, Kangaroos and other pest animals that threaten local crops and livestock."

Personally, I think that's about as entertaining as watching a DVD of the Orkin guy spray for bugs in my back yard. At least it looks like Mr. Thompson didn't just make a kangaroo snuff film.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

This is what I was saying earlier. I'm just curious if some of the people here would be less disgusted by a video like this if it was made by a more respected knife-maker. Its curiosity, nothing more. No strawman intended.

No, that's not quite what Ben Dover or you asked. Language can be used precisely or it can be used casually. Neither is right or wrong in itself, but if you want a specific question answered carefully, you have to phrase it carefully as well.

Perhaps you need to turn it around, and instead of attributing flames to me or hypothetical actions to others, you should ask, "What is it about the actual YouTube video or the described Cold Steel DVD that people here find distasteful?"

If on the other hand what you want to elicit from us is an admission that some knifemakers would get a pass on some things that LT would not, then ask that. But be prepared to get ignored again if you don't get very specific about what they really might be expected to do in comparsion to what LT takes pride in showing off.

 

[Gunfucius]

No, that's not quite what Ben Dover or you asked. Language can be used precisely or it can be used casually. Neither is right or wrong in itself, but if you want a specific question answered carefully, you have to phrase it carefully as well.

Perhaps you need to turn it around, and instead of attributing flames to me or hypothetical actions to others, you should ask, "What is it about the actual YouTube video or the described Cold Steel DVD that people here find distasteful?"

If on the other hand what you want to elicit from us is an admission that some knifemakers would get a pass on some things that LT would not, then ask that. But be prepared to get ignored again if you don't get very specific about what they really might be expected to do in comparsion to what LT takes pride in showing off.

Ok, my bad. Here you go: Would some knifemakers get a pass on some things that Lynn Thompson would not? Pretty much what I wanted to know. Thanks.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

"Additionally, he will be assisting property owners and various government departments throughout Australia to cull Buffalo, Red Deer, Fallow Deer, Kangaroos and other pest animals that threaten local crops and livestock."

Personally, I think that's about as entertaining as watching a DVD of the Orkin guy spray for bugs in my back yard. At least it looks like Mr. Thompson didn't just make a kangaroo snuff film.

You can tell me whatever you like. But what you show me is what I will remember. LT showed me he can shoot one animal after another.

Does the actual DVD show anything of habitat, habits, charisteristic behavior, the expedition itself, the thrill of the hunt? Or does it show the Orkin guy diligently applying rat poison to his traps. Assisting property owners ... not a hunter then, but a butcher.

 

[roughedges]

http://www.coldsteel.com/vddu.html

"Additionally, he will be assisting property owners and various government departments throughout Australia to cull Buffalo, Red Deer, Fallow Deer, Kangaroos and other pest animals that threaten local crops and livestock."

I believe they changed the ad copy, can anyone confirm? I don't recall reading that text when I read the page originally.


If he was culling pest animals I withdraw my prior unfamily friendly assertion but still think this video, or at least the preview that was up, is in incredibly poor taste.


Lynn Thompson is one of those people who comes across as a cartoon character to me. If he toned it down, I bet he wouldn't get as much negative commentary. But, in that case, he probably wouldn't get as much positive advertising mileage either.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Ya keep trying to find a corner you can push me into.

"If on the other hand what you want to elicit from us is an admission that some knifemakers would get a pass on some things that LT would not, then ask that."

Ok, my bad. Here you go: Would some knifemakers get a pass on some things that Lynn Thompson would not? Pretty much what I wanted to know. Thanks.

"But be prepared to get ignored again if you don't get very specific about what they really might be expected to do in comparison to what LT takes pride in showing off."

You have to realize, I am not going to speculate for purposes of your argument that anyone else might behave in a certain way. If they did, they would be LT. They aren't.

On the other hand, if you want to know if I am biased, how can you ask a thing like that? Of course I am. Each of us, of any reasonable intelligence, has a body of understanding about the people around us. Our assessments might not be completely accurate or even fair, but we work with what we've got.

What's the big deal? Is there something wrong with taking the sum total of what I've learned about LT and saying: :thumbdn: ?

 

[Cougar Allen]

Okay, you want to hear speculations? I'll speculate.

I'll guess if someone previously well-liked and respected released that preview everybody would say, "How could you do that??? What's wrong with you??? What is going on here???"

If somebody previously unknown released that preview everybody would say, "What a dork! I'm not going to buy any knives from him!"

Since it was Lynn Thompson who did it, people are saying, "Well, that's about what I expected from that dork ... no, actually that's pretty bad even for him. Just another reason not to give him my business."

I wonder if the people asking if others are reacting out of prejudice against Thompson have watched the preview. If so, do you have any clue what hunting is all about? Does the word "gutshot" mean anything to you? How about the idea of shooting into a group of running animals -- ever thought about whether that's a good idea or not?

 

[Ben Dover]

I cannot understand how you take that meaning from what I wrote, which was the very opposite: the gentlemen you named in your hypothetical did NOT actually do what Lynn Thompson did. Lynn Thompson left himself open to criticism by the way he presented his behavior. He's the one who gave us the reason and in his own merchandise, the video. His cheerleader first brought it up here, as praiseworthy.

A better hypothetical might involve Ted Nugent, another hero here. He hunts, for the table. He supports rightist values in the most assertive terms. At what point might he get flamed here? Probably none. Too many positives would wash out an occasional negative. Would that make your point, though?

Lynn Thompson shouldn't have many negatives around here. He's in the right business, sells a lot of good products at competitive prices, provides an unusual variety of related products, and is an outdoors, physical type. Just what you'd think we like. What happened?

Then perhaps I have misunderstood your thoughts. If so, I stand corrected.

 

[shecky]

I believe they changed the ad copy, can anyone confirm? I don't recall reading that text when I read the page originally.


If he was culling pest animals I withdraw my prior unfamily friendly assertion but still think this video, or at least the preview that was up, is in incredibly poor taste.

Does it matter if he was culling pests, collecting trophies, or just having target practice? The issue is whether he was poaching or otherwise behaving in an illegal manner, or not. You may not like it, but I'll venture to guess that Thompson paid well to shoot up all those animals, and had permission to do so. If there's any evidence to the contrary, please share.

Is the video in poor taste? If you think so. But there are plenty of folks around who think killing of any animal is in poor taste or worse. There's a full spectrum of hunting, arguing over what is and isn't hunting is pretty much like arguing religion. Unless Thompson was depriving folks of their property or otherwise behaving in an illegal manner, all complaints are nothing more than whining.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

What's the difference between complaints and whining? Perhaps the standards we set for the activity claimed to be portrayed. If it's a hunting video, and his actions fall short of generally accepted ethics of hunting, then the complaint is valid. Let him answer for it.

Otherwise, shecky, EVERYTHING is whining, and if you don't like that, ... what are you doing on Bladeforums? You certainly find enough to whine about in what other people post.