death down under

Esav Benyamin said:
If it's a hunting video, and his actions fall short of generally accepted ethics of hunting, then the complaint is valid. Let him answer for it.
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Whose generally accepted ethics of hunting? It seems they change depending on conditions. Trophy hunters, pest control, subsistence hunters all hunt. But ethics change depending on circumstances.

Again, if someone has evidence that Thompson was behaving illegally, make the case. If you think he was behaving unethically or immorally, that is your opinion, even if it's still essentially uninformed about the actual circumstances under which he took all those animals. Until some evidence of actual wrongdoing, this is still just another in the long Bladeforums tradition of Thompson pile-ons.
 
Um, what's wrong with Thompson pile-ons? How many of them come up out of nowhere, and how many get started with something he himself says or does?

Ethics of hunting? Ours, Bladeforums outdoors people, including hunters. Who else should we speak for? Check out the recent posts listing failures to conform, e.g., shooting into a running group.

The video could have stressed the need for culling, given a quick list of where the donated meat went, and run a commentary on technical aspects of how to make a clean kill. Wanna bet how much of that was included?

Instead, we get a steady drumbeat of background music to cue the visceral excitement of watching .. them .. die.
 
I'll guess if someone previously well-liked and respected released that preview everybody would say, "How could you do that??? What's wrong with you??? What is going on here???"

Since it was Lynn Thompson who did it, people are saying, "Well, that's about what I expected from that dork ... no, actually that's pretty bad even for him. Just another reason not to give him my business."
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When you put it that way, its hard to blame people for being biased. I'd like to extend my apoligies to Esav. My bad.:o

I wonder if the people asking if others are reacting out of prejudice against Thompson have watched the preview. If so, do you have any clue what hunting is all about? Does the word "gutshot" mean anything to you? How about the idea of shooting into a group of running animals -- ever thought about whether that's a good idea or not?
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I have to admit that I hadn't watched the preview before I made my previous posts. I saw people's reactions to it and assumed that it was only because it was by Lynn Thompson. I know now that it was only part of the reason. Again, my bad. Sorry, people.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Um, what's wrong with Thompson pile-ons? How many of them come up out of nowhere, and how many get started with something he himself says or does?

Ethics of hunting? Ours, Bladeforums outdoors people, including hunters. Who else should we speak for? Check out the recent posts listing failures to conform, e.g., shooting into a running group.

The video could have stressed the need for culling, given a quick list of where the donated meat went, and run a commentary on technical aspects of how to make a clean kill. Wanna bet how much of that was included?

Instead, we get a steady drumbeat of background music to cue the visceral excitement of watching .. them .. die.
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To which I say... BFD. Frankly, the video looks dull. I get the impression that the preview pretty much shows all the money shots. Then again, maybe that's by design. I suppose if the preview had Thompson talking about which gun he uses, or the paperwork involved in doing a hunt in Australia, it would look about as exciting as an IRS form.

Thing is, Thompson isn't the first, and won't be the last to make this kind of video. Mark Sullivan has been doing it for years. Even "responsible" videos can spend less than five minutes thoroughly covering the "noble" aspects of hunting and the technical aspects of a clean kill. But ultimately, the footage is about the kill.

Pile on Thompson if you wish. But nearly every pile-on he's had involves mostly whining, and few relevant facts. In the end, they reflect as poorly on the forum members than they do Lynn Thompson. Often even more so.
 
shecky said:
Even "responsible" videos can spend less than five minutes thoroughly covering the "noble" aspects of hunting and the technical aspects of a clean kill. But ultimately, the footage is about the kill.
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My wife and I used to watch bullfighting from Mexico City. They showed a ceremony, from all involved entering the arena, to the bull sent in, the whole show right through to the kill -- or, in one spectacular instance, the man turning away from a bull exhausted but still moving forward, and refusing to kill him.

Then they moved to a different format where they showed one kill after another, at different arenas in different countries. We watched no more.

Abusum non tollit usum. Seeing it done wrong doesn't mean there is no right way.

Pile on Thompson if you wish. But nearly every pile-on he's had involves mostly whining, and few relevant facts. In the end, they reflect as poorly on the forum members than they do Lynn Thompson. Often even more so.
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... mostly whining ... reflect as poorly on the forum members. Not all whining then, some people specifying what they don't like ... and not reflecting on all forum members.

What would you suggest? Because so many have dumped on LT for so long, that we give him a pass from now on? Bladeforums is a club, we get together with our friends and talk about what we like. We blow off steam. There are so many rooms in the clubhouse that it's possible to ignore certain members or even certain topics if you don't like them.

What is the problem?
 
After seeing a Kosher slaughterhouse video, I would never again touch Kosher meat. The practice is beyond horrorshow. There is no excuse for abusing livestock in that manner when there is a more humane way to slaughter animals. I truly feel sorry for anyone who feels compelled to eat Kosher meat.

At the same time, I have to acknowledge that eating meat involves the consumer in the killing of the animal. If you wouldn't buy it, the market wouldn't provide it. I eat meat, I'm part of the system of harvesting meat. I just think that harvesting meat should be done in the most humane manner.

Without a doubt, Kosher slaughter should be made illegal, just the same as Chinese methods of harvesting fur. Both should be intolerable to any person who can appreciate the experience the animals go through in the process of slaughter.

Hunting, on the other hand, is probably the highest form of animal harvesting. The animals live a life of freedom and natural enjoyment of their environment up until the final moments of their lives.

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=agri_short&Player=wm
 
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A very great scandal, this and similar instances, but not the essence of kosher slaughter. We will not reject the entire system because it has been abused.

If you aren't an observant Jew, if you aren't aware of kosher slaughtering practices that do conform to our laws, I reject your opinion. And I oppose your attempt to impose your philosophy on our way of life.
 
shecky said:
Does it matter if he was culling pests, collecting trophies, or just having target practice? The issue is whether he was poaching or otherwise behaving in an illegal manner, or not. You may not like it, but I'll venture to guess that Thompson paid well to shoot up all those animals, and had permission to do so. If there's any evidence to the contrary, please share.
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I'm not a judge or Australian wildlife official shecky; I could honestly care less about Thompson's motivations in making this video or whether he was culling pests, collecting trophies or what have you. The video, in my opinion, glorifies slaughter and makes a mockery out of real hunters doing real hunting. Most avid hunters that I've had the chance to know would be far too embarrassed, and possibly ashamed, to even talk about, let alone videotape for the world to see, taking some of the shots Thompson did

Is the video in poor taste? If you think so.
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That's the point, I do think so. As I said already... I can't really tell if you are agreeing or attempting to use a rhetorical question as argumentation.

But there are plenty of folks around who think killing of any animal is in poor taste or worse. There's a full spectrum of hunting, arguing over what is and isn't hunting is pretty much like arguing religion. Unless Thompson was depriving folks of their property or otherwise behaving in an illegal manner, all complaints are nothing more than whining.
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Well, until you came along I was under the impression that just about everyone who saw that preview clip didn't consider it hunting. Funny thing about people shecky, we all have opinions. Some of them are even based in something more abstract than legality, based on things like morals and the ethics of the hunt etc. However, in my opinion, there are some people whining in this thread; I just can't figure out why. Are they CS shills? Unethical hunters? Or maybe just poor marksmen?

The world may never know. :rolleyes:
 
shecky said:
The issue is whether he was poaching or otherwise behaving in an illegal manner, or not.
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shecky said:
Again, if someone has evidence that Thompson was behaving illegally, make the case. If you think he was behaving unethically or immorally, that is your opinion,
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Whoa! Are you seriously trying to define "the issue" as a question of whether he broke whatever the laws are of the country he was doing all that shooting in?

That may be an issue in your mind, but it's not the issue that anybody else is discussing. If you start a new thread to debate that issue I think you'll find yourself all alone talking to yourself.
 
enderwiggin said:
My guess would be that he's avoiding the question because he knows Ben is setting up a straw man.

Hunting animals you intend to eat is honorable. Using large numbers of living creatures for target practice, with no other aim in mind, is not.
I don't care who you are, or what you've accomplished. That doesn't give you license to wave a moral "get out of jail free" pass every time you do something reprehensible.
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+1:thumbup:
 
SENSELESS KILLING. He is a disgrace to himself, his business and the hunting community.
 
Is "varmint hunting" in the USA a bad thing? With all this talk of "senseless slaughter" should I feel "guilty" about going to a friend's ranch and shooting out a prairie dog town that his cattle are being injured in?????? Is it wrong to plink rats at the town dump?

And for you "Easterners" do you eat the woodchucks that you shoot?

Let's get all of the facts before judging people. Are feral cattle, camels, feral buffalo, etc "vermin" in Australia? Is the meat fit to eat?

I don't know. and I strongly suspect that most folks here don't know either.

Perhaps some of our Australian members could enlighten us.
 
It might be interesting in itself to see what Australians think of the preview, but the preview was aimed at an American audience.
 
Cougar Allen said:
It might be interesting in itself to see what Australians think of the preview, but the preview was aimed at an American audience.
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I agree that it would be interesting to hear what Australians think, since it took place in their country.


How about it, guys? Any Aussies reading this thread?????
 
Ok, an Aussie's viewpoint. I didn't see the youtube video before it was taken down, so this is pretty limited, and only my viewpoint (hope my facts are right).

Feral cattle, camels and buffalo. As per the name, all of them are feral, killing off any of them would be good.

Regarding the buffalo, I think we introduced some sort of virus into the population, so now it's more making sure that the herds don't get too large again. They cause problems, but given the relatively low numbers, there're worse problems.

The camels don't cause as much destruction as the others, but are still problems. I recall something about us having the largest feral camel population in the world, and some stuff about us exporting some back to the Middle East as breeding stock and maybe food (?), so I'd say they're edible as long as they're disease free and all the usual stuff. Numbers are more the problem, slightly compensated by the fact that they don't do as much damage.

Not really up to date on feral cattle or deer though, so I can't say anything there.

As for the roos, look great, and pretty tasty too! Funny how we're the only country to eat the animals on its national crest (I think). That said, populations are massive in some areas, and they can cause problems for the farmers. Even more so since we're recovering from/still in a drought depending on where you are. Some people don't like it, but I figure it's got to happen otherwise the farmers are stuffed. Hunting roos is regulated like everything else, and only certain species are harvested, others are on various endangered lists and all. Also need permission from the landowner if you'll be hunting on private property, so as long as he's hunting the right species in the right areas, he's helping out the farmers. Selling the pelts and meat is possible, not sure how much it fetches though.

All that's well and good, but from my viewpoint, it's more interesting to note the animals not mentioned on the CS webpage (haven't seen the video, so I can't really say that he didn't hunt them). The bigger problems facing us are, IMO, the feral rabbits and wild boar. The rabbits eat everything, destabilise the soil and breed like... well, rabbits! The boars eat stuff (and account for a fair amount of the lambs lost), cause erosion, foul water supplies, and so on. Admittedly taking 120 rabbits will make less of a dent in the population, but it's still the bigger problem.

If they weren't hunted, I can't say why they weren't. But that said, boars are the same the world over, nasty buggers if you piss one off, as you could probably guess. Regarding the rabbits, well, I can't really see anyone wanting to buy a video of Lynn hunting rabbits.

All that said, if any of the other Aussies are reading this and I've said something wrong, please say!
 
Th232 said:
Regarding the rabbits, well, I can't really see anyone wanting to buy a video of Lynn hunting rabbits.
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No joke, I'd buy a video of Lynn Thompson hunting rabbits. That'd be great; I'm getting some much needed laughter at the mental image of it!
 
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