Define "Bushcraft" knife for me please

[Codger_64]

so wood craft is just surviving on minamalmist gear like a knife
well I usually use my knife and only my knife

Nope. Still missed it. It is the ability to thrive in an environment regardless of whether you have gear or not. It is finding good water where there is none and food when none is apparent. It is about knowing not only how to build improvised shelter, but finding natural shelter. Leave the popular terms "surviving, survival" out of the equation.

Woodscrafting skills help in survival situations. But most of all they help you to not wind up in those situations. Skills and knowledge of the environment trumps tools every time.

Codger

 

[m40]

I think you mean this thread?

Actually it was a question as to what was a bushcraft knife and for some reason the description given as to what is commonly accepted to be the bushcraft type blade seemed to upset some people

Actually, I meant "this silly place where people jump on me for minor mis-statements"

As to why people get upset, I think it has something to do with the situation that ensues when a class of small, fixed blades get renamed as "bush" blades and the price soars to 20 times it's original price due to wild claims that it's suited to tasks that it... isn't suited to. Whew! Now you can hammer me for a run-on sentence!

 

[runningboar]

m40,
As much as you hate this forum I am really surprised you come here at all. I would say that what you do in the "bush" determines what you use in the bush.

I love to hike in to wild trout streams and on my favorite streams have even guided a bit. My absolute favorite place is an 8 mile walk into a very remote area, I have yet to see a need for a knife larger than my pocket knife. I also kayak and canoe into some really out of the way places, my pocket knife and a light bowsaw do everything I require. If for some reason I am suddenly thrust into a "survival" situation what is this big blade going to do for me? This is an honest question, when are you going to be dropped off in the middle of nowhere with your big knife and none of the other gear you usually have? Chris

EDIT: Everyone talks about building shelters with their knife, why? A painters dropcloth or better yet a silnylon tarp will fit in your back pocket and is a lot lighter than a huge piece of steel. What are these "survival" situations and how do you get into one, wander away from camp naked, except for your knife, and not be able to find your back?

 

[RescueRiley]

lots of folk survived for thousands of years doing almost everything they needed to with 2 inch bits of obsidian and flint.....and they got along.....

 

[m40]

m40,
As much as you hate this forum I am really surprised you come here at all. I would say that what you do in the "bush" determines what you use in the bush.

I love to hike in to wild trout streams and on my favorite streams have even guided a bit. My absolute favorite place is an 8 mile walk into a very remote area, I have yet to see a need for a knife larger than my pocket knife. I also kayak and canoe into some really out of the way places, my pocket knife and a light bowsaw do everything I require. If for some reason I am suddenly thrust into a "survival" situation what is this big blade going to do for me? This is an honest question, when are you going to be dropped off in the middle of nowhere with your big knife and none of the other gear you usually have? Chris

Well, I have to say that I HAVE been put in a situation where I had to choose one blade. Flying ops over the Middle East, we didn't have the opportunity to stash bowsaws in our helmet bags.

As for your pocket knife being sufficient, sure it's sufficient. As I've pointed out, so is a sharp rock or even nothing at all in the right hands. This has turned into a debate over "what is the IDEAL survival knife?" with some claiming that the "bush" blades are. I beg to differ. When you ask what's the ideal blade, I'll take a chopper every time. If you ask, "what's ideal", well, I'll take a backpack full of gear... or how about a camper? Maybe a chainsaw?

Before this gets ridiculous, let's stick to the debate... what is a "bush" blade, and is it ideal for survival. I've made clear arguments as to WHAT it is, and WHY it isn't ideal. Talking about pocket knives and bowsaws is fine, but tell me why they're ideal, not just "well... I'm real lucky because it's all I've needed so far, and therefore it must be ideal.

Cogent arguments folks.

 

[Citori]

There is a guy in some jungle somewhere giving his grandfather a haircut with a Machete

Hilarious but likely true.

And, also hilarious: somewhere out there someone is splitting some animal's pelvis for who knows what reason.

 

[Rockywolf]

Interestingly, even though the debate rages on (please no one go after me here), I still learn a TON from reading these posts. So many of you have so much to teach. As a relative newbie, I'm all about the learning.

 

[runningboar]

Well, I have to say that I HAVE been put in a situation where I had to choose one blade. Flying ops over the Middle East, we didn't have the opportunity to stash bowsaws in our helmet bags.

Yeah, I have never done anything like that

I agree, if I am out doing black ops and killing tangos I will pick the big knife, if I am troutfishing and cleaning 8" brookies I will stick with my pocket knife.

Who said a bushcraft knife, whatever that is, is a good survival knife and by the way what is a survival knife? Chris

 

[hollowdweller]

As to why people get upset, I think it has something to do with the situation that ensues when a class of small, fixed blades get renamed as "bush" blades and the price soars to 20 times it's original price due to wild claims that it's suited to tasks that it... isn't suited to.

I'd certainly agree with you about there being a sort of "buzz" about certain knives, and of course Ray Mears using his on TV causes the price to go up just like Smith 44's went way up after "Dirty Harry" came out

However I'm not sure the case is that people are making wild claims for bushcraft knives and the knives are not suited to it.

Reading the posts in this thread it seems more like it's people saying Bushcraft knives are a nice size for the stuff they generally do in the woods and then others throwing up all these one in a million survival scenarios where they might not be the ideal in an attempt to discredit them

Like digging? I hesitate to talk about a "real survival" situation at this point because it makes me laugh, but if my life did depend on a knife to survive why would I dull the blade by digging? I'd use my bushcraft skills and carve a digging stick so I could save my knife edge:thumbup:

Anyway just think it's funny.

 

[runningboar]

somewhere out there someone is splitting some animal's pelvis for who knows what reason.

To get to all the best meat that is in the pelvis. Chris

 

[skammer]

m40,
As much as you hate this forum I am really surprised you come here at all. I would say that what you do in the "bush" determines what you use in the bush.

I love to hike in to wild trout streams and on my favorite streams have even guided a bit. My absolute favorite place is an 8 mile walk into a very remote area, I have yet to see a need for a knife larger than my pocket knife. I also kayak and canoe into some really out of the way places, my pocket knife and a light bowsaw do everything I require. If for some reason I am suddenly thrust into a "survival" situation what is this big blade going to do for me? This is an honest question, when are you going to be dropped off in the middle of nowhere with your big knife and none of the other gear you usually have? Chris

EDIT: Everyone talks about building shelters with their knife, why? A painters dropcloth or better yet a silnylon tarp will fit in your back pocket and is a lot lighter than a huge piece of steel. What are these "survival" situations and how do you get into one, wander away from camp naked, except for your knife, and not be able to find your back?

I look for people all the time who are in survival situations.

I spent last night in zero degrees wind gusting 50 MPH with snow, training with 10 SAR colleagues with bare tarps only. Not one pocket knife was used, granted a light saw is usefull. Several large blades were used however to make insulative beds and hack up framing in very short order. A mere fire and a small knife could have concievably killed lessor trained people as winds drifted all heat away in addition to snow accumulation. A decent shelter and fire block was all that kept us from freezing.

This does happen to people out for an 8 mile hike with the dog.

Skam

 

[runningboar]

I look for people all the time who are in survival situations.

I spent last night in zero degrees wind gusting 50 MPH with snow, training with 10 SAR colleagues with bare tarps only. Not one pocket knife was used, granted a light saw is usefull. Several large blades were used however to make insulative beds and hack up framing in very short order. A mere fire and a small knife could have concievably killed lessor trained people as winds drifted all heat away in addition to snow accumulation. A decent shelter and fire block was all that kept us from freezing.

This does happen to people out for an 8 mile hike with the dog.

Skam

Not where I live, perhaps if I knew what 0 was like, or had ever seen drifting snow my ideas might be different. Different tools for different jobs, sound familiar? Chris

 

[shipwreck]

Well, I have to say that I HAVE been put in a situation where I had to choose one blade. Flying ops over the Middle East, we didn't have the opportunity to stash bowsaws in our helmet bags.

As for your pocket knife being sufficient, sure it's sufficient. As I've pointed out, so is a sharp rock or even nothing at all in the right hands. This has turned into a debate over "what is the IDEAL survival knife?" with some claiming that the "bush" blades are. I beg to differ. When you ask what's the ideal blade, I'll take a chopper every time. If you ask, "what's ideal", well, I'll take a backpack full of gear... or how about a camper? Maybe a chainsaw?

Before this gets ridiculous, let's stick to the debate... what is a "bush" blade, and is it ideal for survival. I've made clear arguments as to WHAT it is, and WHY it isn't ideal. Talking about pocket knives and bowsaws is fine, but tell me why they're ideal, not just "well... I'm real lucky because it's all I've needed so far, and therefore it must be ideal.

Cogent arguments folks.

I didn't see any argument for why the bushcraft isn't ideal, rather I saw the content of your arguments trying to portray the big chopper as being able to make do at what a smaller blade does execeptionaly well.

The only thing that you claimed a bushcraft knife would not do well is errect a shelter in a hurry. If one has the opportunity to lug a large chopping bowie into the bush then one could equally be prepared with a tarp or tube tent that would be even more expedient. (or a hatchet, that chops better than a knife) As far as any other functions such as digging in dirt to find grubs, a good stick would be a much better choice.

What are the arguments to support the negation a bushcraft knife? It perform chores that require fine motor skills better than the bowie chopper. expedient shelter can be obtained from alternate means, including utilizing natural materials, or carrying very lightweight items in place of the bowie. (or by carrying a hatchet)

In the end a hatchet is better for chopping and a bushcraft knife is better for a wider range of tasks. the bushcraft knife is handy, the bowie chopper is akward.

Not that the bowie has no merit but that the big hefty chopping knife does not invalidate or surpass the bushcraft knife as a survival tool.

 

[STAGE 2]

Survival is Chinese steel whistling past your ears while you run flat out across a rice paddy hoping you don't step on a mine. Survival is laying for hours in a pile of watter buffalo dung hoping your foot isn't sticking out to give you away and that Charlie's bayonet doesn't find your gizzard while you pray. Survival is making your way thru the jungle for weeks with nothing but your wits and a hole in your side. And eating everything that crawls, swims and flys to keep up your energy for another day.

You just described the quintessential reason why not to bring a bushcraft knife to a gunfight.

 

[ras]

I'm not upset at m40, I am upset at his #1 fan troll. What I find humorous are guys not agreeing with what a Bushcraft knife is and then confusing it with survival knives.

. . .Trust me on this fact... go visit the USAF Survival School, and check out the dozens of instructors. These guys pretty much live in the mountains of Washington state, and you won't find a one of them with some little skinner. They also don't use the 5" Air Force survival knife they were issued. You'll find a large variety of blades, but they'll all have something in common. They're all 9-12" blades of heavy (1/4" +/-) steel. You won't see any of the "Rambo" style blades either... just big choppers. It's not about "macho", it's about common sense bringing the right tool for the job at hand. . .

Anytime folks start talking about survival knives needing to be big, my thoughts are that the primary attribute of a survival knifes is that you have it with you. Big knives make great wilderness blades, but as survival knives they suck because the only time you have them is when you go out to practice survival (see quote above) or you are at your camp. Do you guys routinely carry those big blades when you go hiking? Really, all the time? If so, good on you. If I was an Air Force survival instructor I'd probably carry a big blade too, but is it survival when you deliberately put yourself into the situation as a routine?

Most folks leave those big boys in their truck and take a smaller, lighter knife that will do the work they know they'll need to do, not the work that, "maybe if I get lost and need to bushwack through 10 miles of brush I'll need it so I'll carry that extra 2 lbs on the off-chance that I may actually need it." That much bushwacking infers you need to brush up on navigation skills, not carry a bigger knife.

Stuff happens when you're least prepared. Those little folders that Doug Ritter sells through aeromedix meet the primary survival attribute of being small enough to carry all the time. I carry the RSK Mk1 when I'm outback regardless of which other knives, hatchets or axes I also carry -- it's never left behind. Another knife that won't be left behind is my Fehrman Peace Maker which will sit just left of my buckle in a horizontal sheath -- makes a pretty good bushcraft knife and carries very easily. Unless I know I'm going to need it, the Final Judgment isn't carried. If I know I'm going to need it before I start out, it isn't much of a survival situation is it.

 

[shipwreck]

Yeah in that case some air support or mortars might have worked better

 

[Guyon]

Crafting in the bush. Pretty simple.

It is a totally subjective category in my opinion.

 

[Codger_64]

Sure. HE and willy pete arty for effect would be great at such times. But in this and many other situations, survival depends on you and no one else. The cavalry doesn't always come... ask Custer. SAR sometimes does recovery not rescue. Where is Steve Fossett anyway?

Codger

 

[shipwreck]

Hey Codg by how you stated the number of years you had in the woods and roughly figuring your age by that, Im guessing there's a chance you might be descibing your own real life experience. If that is true... well thank you for your service to our country and glad you survived to make it home.

 

[peripatew]

Wow. That exploded rather quickly! All I wanted was a definition of what some knifemaker's are terming a "bushcraft". Maker's such as Krein.

Skammer, sounds like you are having some fun training SAR'ers. Hopefully when my life calms down I'd like to start some SAR training. Where are you located at?