Define "Bushcraft" knife for me please

[batosai117]

Oh, almost forgot, thanks for bringing up my question. 3/16" is a good size to me, comes out to .18", my folder is .16" so this seems about right.

I would assume that the bushcraft knife itself usually has the trademark design of the 'flatback' for use as showering sparks (question or sentence )

 

[MRpink]

holy crap this thread grew fast.

(( Poor sort of religious reference ))



edit: hahah, sorry.

 

[Any Cal.]

I went out for a short snowshoe trip one day, about 15F, and at my first rest stop realized I did not have any tool for cutting larger wood w/ me. I had a tent and sleeping bag, so was not in bad shape, but was irritated w/ my oversight. I had this mental picture of trying to keep warm w/ a bag that had gotten wet, and not having a good way to keep a larger fire going if required. I had meant to bring a bow saw, as it was light weight and I was pulling a small sled, so space was available.
As I was thinking about the tools I would like to have, or the one I did not bring, never once did I wish I had a large chopping knife. I wanted a bow saw, or a machete, or lastly an axe.
I really do not understand why a person needs a big knife. If I need a large blade, I take a machete, which weighs less than a large knife, can be carried and used w/ less effort, and while chops well, also doubles as a machete, which no large knife can do well. I also like a saw of sorts.
If I can only carry a certain amount of weight due to various limitations, I sure will not waste it on a large, inefficient chunk of steel. If I can carry all the weight I want, I will bring the right tool for the job, not a large, inefficient chunk of steel.
In a few ways I agree w/ shipwreck, take a knife that weighs 7 oz less and bring a silnylon or tyvek poncho. Less energy output and less time required in a true survival situation.
Must say though, that none of my post applies to those who simply want to carry a large knife because they enjoy it. If you do, just man up and say so. Look at Magnussen's kit. He realizes the drawbacks of some of the things he carries, but chooses to do so regardless for his own reasons.
So please, for those who wish to carry large knives, just say you do because you want to, regardless of any drawbacks that may entail. Doing so would certainly save many keystrokes.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I really do not understand why a person needs a big knife.

Because you don't doesn't mean they shouldn't.

1) Environments differ.
2) Conditions differ.
3) Individuals differ -- experience, skills, preference.
4) Every big knife is not heavy or clumsy.

Why can't we hold a discussion where each of us explains our own needs and equipment without denigrating others?

I can understand two people comparing their own different equipment as they used it in the same environment under the same conditions. But too much discussion here seems to assume we all have the same needs, and that isn't close to reality.

 

[Any Cal.]

Very well. Many situations differ, as do circumstances and individuals. The situations, circumstances, and individuals being discussed are those that 1)need to build a fire or shelter, 2)need a tool to do so, and 3)have a particular tool w/ them.
The premise of some posters is that the proper tool to have when the conditions noted above arise, is a large, heavy knife. This is what prompted my response. If indeed, there is a particular condition that required a large, heavy, chopping knife, it should have been duly noted in the prior 8 pages of discussion. I simply wanted to lay out some explanation for the many viewers of this thread, so the vocal minority does not go unaccosted, less they seem more correct for my silence.
I apologize if I appear to disregard others in this thread, as that was not neccesarily my intention. I merely chose to point out the thought process that many who have spent time in similiar conditions as those being discussed may have gone through. As is shown by the considerable discussion, there are a few who do not feel the same way, and apparently make that choice by the gear they carry.
Realistically, if a person truly does make the decision to carry the gear, they must believe what they are preaching. I personally carry a machete and a folding saw, for my particular needs, and have no problem with those who carry the proper tools for their needs. The only issue I have is w/ reccomendations to many others of poorly suited tools to specific tasks. This being a forum, I have chosen to represent another point of view, which all others can either listen to or ignore.

 

[Ravaillac]

The only question still remaining to me is, why does a bushcraft blade have to be made of thin blade stock?

One thing to add is, despite its thin stock, and its pretty high hardness, moras are pretty springy and can take a lot of punishment.

Funny thing is that my feeling is that a mora is less likely to break then your run of the mill thick blade (thick blades take more stress since they don't cut too well, won't flex, thickness may mean non homogenous heat treatment, non-relieved heat-treatment stress...).

Don't ask me how they do that*, just try it.

As for the "Mears type" knives, they are 4mm thick I think. It is almost as thick as a Fallkniven F1.

And about the high price and the "expertly custom crafted" BS, it is not part of the concept, only consequence of that fact that no industrial knife manufacturer seems willing to make a full tang scandi grind at low price (mora sells a full tang knife, but it is pretty expensive for what it is and not very available).

*As far as I know basic mora is plain 1095 steel, tempered at 60HRC. Steel is sometimes advertised as "hot rolled" which might explain the spring properties.

 

[DOC-CANADA]

Why can't we hold a discussion where each of us explains our own needs and equipment without denigrating others?

Wouldn't that be nice!

What I don't understand is that people seem to need the approval of others here in order to justify their choices. No such approval is needed. If you like it, good enough. Or in plain English, these are my choices, if you like them, great, if not, too bad.

Now if only we could put this much effort in something like the Bushcraft Projects thread, where we could really learn something. :grumpy:

Doc

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Now if only we could put this much effort in something like the Bushcraft Projects thread, where we could really learn something. :grumpy:

Doc

We will. I think the idea works. We need to let it simmer, let people think about what interests them, and then organize a couple of simultaneous topics, with perhaps 3 or 4 people trying out their techniques and equipment and reporting on them.

This bushcraft knife thread would have been a good start. I may need to shepherd the project threads: "no off-topic posts".

 

[Cpl Punishment]

That statement presumes that any knife or other gear that's not a big chopper isn't decent. It also presumes that a big blade is always a necessity. I stopped carrying a big blade because I found gear easier to carry that would also do what I needed.

No, I mean carrying gear that is suited to the situation and possible needs. Are you in an area (I don't care what you are doing there) where you woul dneed to make shelter for an unexpected overnighter? Then, IMO, you should bring appropriate gear. If that's an axe, hatchet, big knife, bowsaw, chainsaw, etc do it. If that's just bringing a sleeping bag and bivy sack, do it. Can you do it with a SAK? Maybe. If you live in a warm climate with lots of undergrowth, it probably wouldn't be too hard. In a northern climate with shaky hands and nothing but your SAK saw to cut frozen wood. . .I wouldn't put my money on you.

Hey cpl punishment, if you read this you should check out my thread in the buck forum called "calling all eagle scouts..." Certain information about a practically 'free' knife from buck for eagle scouts.

Not sure if you have already been there or not, but here is the thread just in case: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508904

Thanks, I'll check it out.

 

[ras]

No, I mean carrying gear that is suited to the situation and possible needs. . .

That clarifies everything, thanks, I was probably overreacting to m40's #1 fanboy. I don't think anyone here would recommend going into the wilderness with just an EDC folder, although I'm sure it's been done successfully. An EDC is just the bottom layer of my sharp gear.

Back on-topic:

I'm curious of the specific characteristics of a knife that make it a "bushcraft".

I have a few knives designed as Bushcraft blades, the Siegle blade is based on the Mears pattern; the Northstar is BRKT's "First entry into the Bushcraft Task Arena"; the Fehrman Peace Maker is just a nice GP utility knife designed for hard use that I think would do well in a bushcraft role. So for me a Bushcraft blade has 4"-5" blade, a handle that is comfortable for extended use in carving, notching, et al as you construct things. These blades aren't for chopping, that's what my GB mini-hatchet is for. I'm not a fan of thin Mora blades, but it seems that a lot of folks like them for some reason. Maybe it's an acquired taste.

 

[skammer]

But you chose to put yourself in that situation.

You could just have easily chosen a 4 season tent and some good liquor:thumbup:

I know I am not going to get lost with just a knife in the wilderness. Most places I go there is a max 10 to 14 mile walk out. That can be done in a day. Almost always I have a tent, stove et al on my back.

I choose to put myself there for training and real SAR missions. Training to find people who ARE and who arent as wilderness savy as yourself. Tents a not an option as they are too heavy and not large enough.

Most people we look for are out for that 10 mile walk and get hurt or turned around and find themselves in dire straits in short order. If you think this is not possible even for you, you are mistaken.

I am hamstrung by bulk and weight as I carry too much as it is so I compromize and carry a medium large blade that does it all for me.

No worries we even rescue critics.

Skam

 

[Leanwolf]

DOC-CANADA - "What I don't understand is that people seem to need the approval of others here in order to justify their choices. No such approval is needed. If you like it, good enough. Or in plain English, these are my choices, if you like them, great, if not, too bad."


Truer words have never been spoken!!!

I learned that about 45 years ago. What works for me, works for me.

I could not care less what other people use out in the boonies.

L.W.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

No worries we even rescue critics.

This is the kind of response I don't understand, mild as it is. I know it's no flame. But he wasn't criticizing anything you said. He was only showing his path goes somewhere else.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

Wouldn't that be nice!

What I don't understand is that people seem to need the approval of others here in order to justify their choices. No such approval is needed. If you like it, good enough. Or in plain English, these are my choices, if you like them, great, if not, too bad.

Now if only we could put this much effort in something like the Bushcraft Projects thread, where we could really learn something. :grumpy:

Doc

Hear, hear!!! I normally never spend a post by 'seconding' a comment, but that's the most valuable thing said in this thread. If it works for you, then that's all that matters. Who cares what others have to say on the subject? If all you take into the woods is an SAK and you get by very well, why should it matter what Ray Mears has to say about it?

I do hope folks are able to contribute to that bushcraft projects thread, it should be neat!

 

[tarmix101]

Wouldn't that be nice!

What I don't understand is that people seem to need the approval of others here in order to justify their choices. No such approval is needed. If you like it, good enough. Or in plain English, these are my choices, if you like them, great, if not, too bad.

Now if only we could put this much effort in something like the Bushcraft Projects thread, where we could really learn something. :grumpy:

Doc

Wow, this thread went to pot in a hurry.

Well said Doc. :thumbup: The voice of reason is refreshing after the last 7-8 pages.

To the OP. Bushcraft or Woodcraft is a highly subjective term. However my opinion is the it's not just survival, but living in and with your environment.

The knives and axes I use fit that bill for ME. I'm sure not everyone.

Depending on where I am, or what I'm doing that could be my Fallkniven F1, or my Mora 510, or just my Vic Farmer.

 

[tarmix101]

We will. I think the idea works. We need to let it simmer, let people think about what interests them, and then organize a couple of simultaneous topics, with perhaps 3 or 4 people trying out their techniques and equipment and reporting on them.

This bushcraft knife thread would have been a good start. I may need to shepherd the project threads: "no off-topic posts".

That would be extremely helpful. It would be much more constructive without all the "your wrong and I'll tell you what you should do/carry" crap.

 

[skammer]

This is the kind of response I don't understand, mild as it is. I know it's no flame. But he wasn't criticizing anything you said. He was only showing his path goes somewhere else.

Esav,

The comment criticized the fact I am out training in weather that needs a decent blade and eluded to the fact it would not happen to him. At least thats how I read it.

Originally Posted by hollowdweller
"But you chose to put yourself in that situation."

Yes, I want to be in that situation for the greater good. When you do the same only then can you comment on gear that works or doesnt in that situation. Until then its armchair opinion.

If I missread appologies.:foot:

Skam

 

[hollowdweller]

Skammer,

I wasn't criticising you. I think doing that is cool!:thumbup:

Your point as I took it was that a small knife was inadequate in such a situation, because you needed a big knife to build a shelter. Extrapolating that we are all under prepared without a big knife.

My point was that normally if I'm going way out I have a tent, and a stove and a knife and really don't need to build a shelter.

Not knocking your survival training. It's great you are doing it:thumbup:

I'm just saying that I'm not carrying way MORE than I need just for the one in a million situation.:thumbup:.

 

[Andros]

My survival instructor swears by a large chiopper knife....

This is not without a good reason!

The big "survival" knife is a bad compromise between a proper bushcraft knife and a hatchet.

Now, I think this is far fetched! I have custom made knives (let alone the Busse's and the Sawmp Rats) that can chop wood as if it's not there! I have goloks and bowies that I can pit them against the sharpest bushcraft knife any time, any place! I have a HI khukuri that is so sharp they can take they can peel letters off a newspaper! Then we can talk about making fuzz sticks! There are numerous people who know a thing or two about the outdoors and they use large blades there. You want us to believe that all these awesome tools are just mishaps? So, we don't know what we are using? When I talk about "survival knives" I am talking about knives that you can trust your life with under the worst circumstances, I am talking about the real deal here, not some crap Rambo looking junk!

In many cases it is easier and safer to use a large blade for chopping than a hatchet: if you are trying to cut tree limbs it's easier to hit them with a chopping knife than it is with a hatchet simply because the knife offers a larger cutting surface than the hatchet does. Go over this review which is only a small token of what a properly made and well sharpened big blade can do:

Outside walking the mutts this morning, I saw a rather large branch over the power lines going to the house. Looked like it was either partially or fully supported by the lines. Last thing I want was for it to damage the lines while I'm gone and start a fire.

So, out comes the 20" Ang Khola. Chopped through the lower section (about 3.5" diameter, birch), cut again higher up. The upper part of the branch was tangled in the branches of another tree, and hanging over the line. I trimmed some of the other branches away, and used the lower section I had just cut off to push the branch over the lines to the other side. Did a basic limb job on the felled sections and piled it up.

Total elapsed time: 10 minutes.

I though the 20"-er chopped fast before, but I've been doing some practice getting the wrist-snap right, and it just flies through the stuff now, without too much effort (mainly start the swing and guide the blade and let its momentum and the wrist-snap do the actual chopping).

I love this thing!

Shipwreck, I can understand that you definitely have had your time in the woods but I think that you went out of line with this comment. If you feel comfortable with the typical bushcraft knife then by all means you should use it. Just don't try to convince us that large blades are the unfortunate kids of a lesser God!

 

[hollowdweller]

Despite the slight acrimony these threads have been a lot of fun.

5 stars

*****:thumbup: