Designer vs Makers

Design, knife making and leather/kydex work are all different skills. Expecting anyone to be amazing at all three is asking a lot. I definitely prefer folks doing what they are best suited for. Even if it means three different people involved.

Some of my favorite knives were designed by Lorien Arnold or Bill Harsey, made by CPK or CRK, and sheathed by Mashed Cat or Gfeller respectively.
 
This is a real thing, and it will only continue to grow as more and more people who have never really used a knife or field tested their designs extensively continue to just try and make a product that sells, as opposed to a high performance cutting tool. They are just cashing in on a market that is currently lucrative.

Several different shows this year were chock full of these type of "knives." If you know much about the knife world, you can tell the person who designed it has no idea what they're doing, if they're actually trying to make a knife that performs.

Many of these "knives" that are being designed and made are just being designed and made to sell, not to be used, thus the emphasis on cramming as many currently hot "features" on them as possible and checking boxes on the materials used. And yes, many were not made domestically.

Sam
 
mitchnola said:
I’m a little torn on how I feel about the new trend of guy’s that just come up with some designs on auto cad then get some manufacturer (most likely in china) to make their designs and poof, they’re now owners of “knife company”. I’m torn because shit, I’d love to do that myself vs they really have no skin in the game. No years of learning, training, sweating through hard work to master their craft that most successful makers go through to produce their own designs and products. The fact that just anybody like me with no experience in knife design or production can learn auto cad, come up with a design, get it it manufactured (china) and then charge top dollar is a disappointing trend that seems to be taking off in the industry.

Maybe I’m missing something and am totally wrong but at the moment I pass on a lot of knives that I actually like the design of and are impressed by the quality build because I know they’re just a designer getting their product made in China. I find it very disappointing when some of these “companies” are charging $4-500, which is the starting price for your midtech and smaller production companies (real companies with staffs, facilities and real overhead). I avoid china made products because I like to support the good ole USA. I think I’d be more inclined to buy just a designer’s knife if made by an American company but I’m still left thinking do I really want to support this trend in the industry or should I start drawing my own designs and have my brand new knife co at the 2024 blade show? Where do you stand?
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Curious, do you feel the same way about custom makers (e.g., Brian Nadeau, Enrique Peña) who use a third party to put out production versions of their customs?
 
mak1277 said:
Curious, do you feel the same way about custom makers (e.g., Brian Nadeau, Enrique Peña) who use a third party to put out production versions of their customs?
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I’m not very familiar with either of those guy’s history in the industry. I have come across Pena’s knives which are not my cup of tea personally. However, if they were I would preferably buy his customs rather than his production line.

E.G. I’m a big Les George fan. I’ve gone out of my way to find and purchase his midtech/production knives that he produces in house but I’m not interested in purchasing his collaborations just because I have the originals and don’t want or need the collaborations.

Basically if I like and support a maker/company I want what they produce rather than what they just design. I personally don’t follow just designers. If I do buy any collaborations it’s just because I like that particular knife.

To be clear though, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with following a designer and purchasing collaborations or third party production lines. However, country of origin is always considered in whether or not I purchase them and the designer’s experience in the industry. For example, I would purchase a production Demko because his experience and innovation is undeniable. I would not purchase a new start up company with an unknown designer using a third party manufacturer that I would not want to support.
 
Just looked Nadeau up and yes Nadeau/sharp by design is one of those companies that I won’t purchase even though I do like the typhoon because it’s not in house and I don’t want to support the manufacturer. I also think his pricing is high based on the fact that I can buy Georges, hinderers, CRK all designed and produced in house for the same or little more $. So yeah, I like the typhoon but I can go without.
 
1. Will the knife serve my needs?

2. Is the knife well-made?

3. Do I like the knife?

4. Do I think the knife is reasonably priced?

5. Does the maker stand behind their product?

6. Was there anything despicable involved in the production of the knife (counterfeit, IP theft, slave labor, child labor, someone falsely claiming military service, etc)?

Those are the things I consider when it comes to buying a knife. I don't care if the designer actually made it with their own hands, or had someone else make it. Heck, I've got knife designs in my head that I would absolutely love to have someone else mass-produce so I could sell them. One things for sure, I'm never going to produce them myself.


This is my Bradley Alias. Designed by someone at "Bradley Cutlery Co", made for them by Benchmade. Nothing particularly special, just a high-quality titanium frame lock. It served me well, and continues to be of service.

nW9RrpJ.jpg
 
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mak1277 said:
Curious, do you feel the same way about custom makers (e.g., Brian Nadeau, Enrique Peña) who use a third party to put out production versions of their customs?
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It's actually why I won't buy one from either one of them even though I like the designs and they seem very well made. If you ever have a problem, I'm worried more about who's going to be able to take care of it, especially at that price point what they're going for.
 
To clarify, there are designers and fabricators across the industry that have made names for themselves and are successful. For example Nadeau, Demko, Anso etc are all guy’s that have been in the industry and may branch off to mass produce their designs on their own. I don’t think there’s any issue with that at all. The industry is full of designers. Maybe I’ve been wrong all along but I’ve recently gotten the impression there are just joe schmoes that come up with a design, get it manufactured and bam, there’s a new knife company on the block. I can’t think of his name but there’s a YouTube reviewer that did exactly that. I could do that, you could do that, anyone could do that. I guess I just hope that’s not the direction the industry is heading in.
 
mitchnola said:
Just looked Nadeau up and yes Nadeau/sharp by design is one of those companies that I won’t purchase even though I do like the typhoon because it’s not in house and I don’t want to support the manufacturer. I also think his pricing is high based on the fact that I can buy Georges, hinderers, CRK all designed and produced in house for the same or little more $. So yeah, I like the typhoon but I can go without.
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So it sounds like your beef is purely based on country I’d origin, not any inherent issue with a designer using a third party. You’re ok with Demko but not Nadeau. Why not just buy Demko customs instead of the production stuff like you said above? I am not sure you’re being honest about your real problems with the design/outsource model.
 
M mak1277 In the original post, he talked about designers versus makers who are having knives made for them, in a mid-tech fashion. Designers in this context, if I understood him correctly, being guys who have never really made and or extensively tested their designs in the field.

They just came up with some cool looking stuff on the computer and are now getting it made. This is very different than makers who have actually designed and built their knives, and then expanded to have them made by a production company, regardless of where it is produced.

If you go to many of the big knife shows, you will see this is exactly what's happening. There are a whole slew of knives that have ridiculous ergonomics, insanely thick or almost non-existent edge geometry, and just bizarre handle and blade shapes or ratios that you can tell are not friendly to actual extended use.

But they have all the right materials and or hot features to sell. These are knife like objects, not really knives.

Sam

mak1277 said:
So it sounds like your beef is purely based on country I’d origin, not any inherent issue with a designer using a third party. You’re ok with Demko but not Nadeau. Why not just buy Demko customs instead of the production stuff like you said above? I am not sure you’re being honest about your real problems with the design/outsource model.
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Sam Wilson said:
M mak1277 In the original post, he talked about designers versus makers who are having knives made for them, in a mid-tech fashion. Designers in this context, if I understood him correctly, being guys who have never really made and or extensively tested their designs in the field.

They just came up with some cool looking stuff on the computer and are now getting it made. This is very different than makers who have actually designed and built their knives, and then expanded to have them made by a production company, regardless of where it is produced.

If you go to many of the big knife shows, you will see this is exactly what's happening. There are a whole slew of knives that have ridiculous ergonomics, insanely thick or almost non-existent edge geometry, and just bizarre handle and blade shapes or ratios that you can tell are not friendly to actual extended use.

But they have all the right materials and or hot features to sell. These are knife like objects, not really knives.

Sam
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But he also said he wouldn’t buy a production knife from Nadeau but he would from Demko….based purely on country of origin I think. If Demko was making in China va Taiwan I’m guessing it would be on OP’s black list.

As far as novices designing bad knives, who cares? If they suck they won’t be successful. If they’re good, they will be. Capitalism wins again.
 
mak1277 said:
So it sounds like your beef is purely based on country I’d origin, not any inherent issue with a designer using a third party. You’re ok with Demko but not Nadeau. Why not just buy Demko customs instead of the production stuff like you said above? I am not sure you’re being honest about your real problems with the design/outsource model.
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Not so much of the country of origin as is I would hate to see the industry inundated with start ups that come and go in the blink of an eye. I’d hate to buy some expensive knife from some startup only to have them gone in another year or two along with my “lifetime warranty”. I’ve been very clear country of origin is a deciding factor eg, demko vs sharp by design. And I would buy demko’s custom over his production line but I can’t get over those blade shapes. I also know more about Demko then Nadeau. And I’m not aware if he does make his own customs.
 
M mak1277 Additionally, this is not top secret info. Some of the sellers of these knives, who don't know or in many cases haven't even met the designers of these knife like objects, freely admit that they are just cashing in on the people who don't know any better and are ready to part with their money. They typically draw them in on social media, where they often have large followings who just post pics of their knives/toys. Facts.

Sam
 
mak1277 said:
But he also said he wouldn’t buy a production knife from Nadeau but he would from Demko….based purely on country of origin I think. If Demko was making in China va Taiwan I’m guessing it would be on OP’s black list.
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Absolutely not, I’m a demko fan. I would still purchase his customs no matter where he produces his production line.
 
Sam Wilson said:
They just came up with some cool looking stuff on the computer and are now getting it made. This is very different than makers who have actually designed and built their knives, and then expanded to have them made by a production company, regardless of where it is produced.
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That’s exactly my sentiment and concern. Well said. Thanks
 
M mak1277 He posted about his opinion, and then said "where do you stand?" or words to that effect. Doesn't make him wrong, that's his opinion. You get yours, and I get mine. As to who cares, if you don't then move on. What's the big deal? But discussion and opinions are part of the whole point of a "discussion forum."

mak1277 said:
But he also said he wouldn’t buy a production knife from Nadeau but he would from Demko….based purely on country of origin I think. If Demko was making in China va Taiwan I’m guessing it would be on OP’s black list.

As far as novices designing bad knives, who cares? If they suck they won’t be successful. If they’re good, they will be. Capitalism wins again.
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Sam
 
Sam Wilson said:
M mak1277 He posted about his opinion, and then said "where do you stand?" or words to that effect. Doesn't make him wrong, that's his opinion. You get yours, and I get mine. As to who cares, if you don't then move on. What's the big deal? But discussion and opinions are part of the whole point of a "discussion forum."



Sam
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Exactly, I’m making conversation.
 
Sam Wilson said:
you go to many of the big knife shows, you will see this is exactly what's happening. There are a whole slew of knives that have ridiculous ergonomics, insanely thick or almost non-existent edge geometry, and just bizarre handle and blade shapes or ratios that you can tell are not friendly to actual extended use.
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Also a very good point. I went to dallas and Atlanta this year for the first time and is exactly what I noticed. Personally I hope it’s not successful and doesn’t push out quality makers and designers that deserve the success in my opinion.
 
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