Designer vs Makers

@mitchnola Blade in Atlanta had a ton of garbage this year. I was shocked at some of the stuff, a real shame. I hope it has a short life cycle, also. Plenty of good stuff too, but the knife like objects were there in numbers.

Sam
 
Alone said:
I wanted to add...


George Washington Sears was not a knife Maker. Yet, his design...the "Nessmuk"...remains one of the most iconic designs to come out of the U.S. If I'm not mistaken, they believe that he used a company that produced surgical razors to build "his" knife design.

...and thank goodness he did. Again, we're all better for it.
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Well, George knew how to sharpen and use a knife also so he wasn't just purely a designer.

Some designers could probably benefit from understanding sharpening and geometry better so they can understand differences in steel and heat treatment more. Some of the designs I've seen out there don't seem to be very ergonomic or friendly to sharpening and some of the materials and heat treatment decisions don't seem to be focused on giving the end user the best performance experience but sometimes focus more on looking cool.

I do agree though that designing knives is not as easy as the OP is insinuating otherwise everybody would be designing.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Well, George knew how to sharpen and use a knife also so he wasn't just purely a designer.

Some designers could probably benefit from understanding sharpening and geometry better so they can understand differences in steel and heat treatment more. Some of the designs I've seen out there don't seem to be very ergonomic or friendly to sharpening and some of the materials and heat treatment decisions don't seem to be focused on giving the end user the best performance experience but sometimes focus more on looking cool.

I do agree though that designing knives is not as easy as the OP is insinuating otherwise everybody would be designing.
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If you'd only put down the kettlebells long enough to get some work done...

🍻 ☺️
 
mitchnola said:
do I really want to support this trend in the industry or should I start drawing my own designs and have my brand new knife co at the 2024 blade show? Where do you stand?
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Well, not standing in the way :D

If starting a new knife company for Blade Show 2024 you better get to it. A year goes by pretty quick and you're already behind on your production schedule it looks like.

Must be a pretty good design.
 
I'm ambivalent on this topic. I don't necessarily mind that these designers are selling their design to production companies, but I mind when they charge close to what a custom or midtech is. "Makers" pour their heart and soul into what they do, physically making a product.

I'm sorry, but I am not willing to spend $400 plus for a knife a designer came up with but made in a foreign country with poor labor standards.

However, while I see these knives as exorbitant, I also see many customs that I feel price wise are exorbitant. $3500 for a plain ti framelock flipper? Come on.

Country of origin is not a huge deal to me, but definitely relative to price. I love my Russian knives, and plan to buy a third.
 
Child labour can be found even in the most advanced countries, on occasion- the US had a large case in the meatpacking industry recently. This does not mean all factories in a country use it.

I doubt major Western knife manufacturers would endorse that, in any factory they use, and assume they check this, by visiting them.

Same with free health care for all, I assume a good thing, but some countries have it, some do not.

I often wonder about Bose getting Case to make some knives (collaboration line, or just the cheaper design line), whether that would upset some, especially those that bought the "real" Bose for a lot of money.
 
K.O.D. said:
I'm ambivalent on this topic. I don't necessarily mind that these designers are selling their design to production companies, but I mind when they charge close to what a custom or midtech is. "Makers" pour their heart and soul into what they do, physically making a product.

I'm sorry, but I am not willing to spend $400 plus for a knife a designer came up with but made in a foreign country with poor labor standards.

However, while I see these knives as exorbitant, I also see many customs that I feel price wise are exorbitant. $3500 for a plain ti framelock flipper? Come on.

Country of origin is not a huge deal to me, but definitely relative to price. I love my Russian knives, and plan to buy a third.
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I would never use the word ambivalent to describe you K.O.D. But I agree 1,000%.

Designers with third party fabricators charging midtech prices is hard to swallow but it’s happening.

I'm sorry, but I am not willing to spend $400 plus for a knife a designer came up with but made in a foreign country with poor labor standards.
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I’m equally ambivalent 😏
 
calm said:
Child labour can be found even in the most advanced countries, on occasion- the US had a large case in the meatpacking industry recently. This does not mean all factories in a country use it.

I doubt major Western knife manufacturers would endorse that, in any factory they use, and assume they check this, by visiting them.

Same with free health care for all, I assume a good thing, but some countries have it, some do not.

I often wonder about Bose getting Case to make some knives (collaboration line, or just the cheaper design line), whether that would upset some, especially those that bought the "real" Bose for a lot of money.
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Whoa Pal, child labour? We’ll have none of that here. Please disregard our friend Calm.
 
Yo Mama said:
It's actually why I won't buy one from either one of them even though I like the designs and they seem very well made. If you ever have a problem, I'm worried more about who's going to be able to take care of it, especially at that price point what they're going for.
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What do you mean, they have the typical warranty of their production company. For Peña, that's been Reate pretty exclusively so far.
 
NG VI said:
I think it's a good thing, it introduces a great gateway for design talent to reveal itself, and the designers who are
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i can respect that and I must admit that’s absolutely true.
 
Spyderco sold knives for over a decade before they produced one in their own factory. Sal was just some nobody with a design idea, who had no way to manufacture it himself.

You never know where the next great idea will come from. If a design isn't available for people to buy and test in the first place, its merits can't be determined. Bad designs will fail on their own, so why begrudge people for trying?
 
HP2114B said:
Spyderco sold knives for over a decade before they produced one in their own factory. Sal was just some nobody with a design idea, who had no way to manufacture it himself.

You never know where the next great idea will come from. If a design isn't available for people to buy and test in the first place, its merits can't be determined. Bad designs will fail on their own, so why begrudge people for trying?
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Sure......
But something I've been wondering about....?
I've never been to the big Blade show. I'd want to go someday, in some capacity.

On YouTube videos that scan the booths....a lot of it looks the Same.
I don't see many of US there?
Our market place, Here looks more exciting

I always assumed it would just be a bigger cooler version of Bladeforums, under one roof.....

And from the videos, it looks closer to Walmart.
Lots of knives I wouldn't waste my time on.
Are those people, and the knives we are talking about now???


*I'm maybe exaggerating a little.
 
Sam Wilson said:
This is a real thing, and it will only continue to grow as more and more people who have never really used a knife or field tested their designs extensively continue to just try and make a product that sells, as opposed to a high performance cutting tool. They are just cashing in on a market that is currently lucrative.

Several different shows this year were chock full of these type of "knives." If you know much about the knife world, you can tell the person who designed it has no idea what they're doing, if they're actually trying to make a knife that performs.

Many of these "knives" that are being designed and made are just being designed and made to sell, not to be used, thus the emphasis on cramming as many currently hot "features" on them as possible and checking boxes on the materials used. And yes, many were not made domestically.

Sam
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So, the guys at ESEE don’t field test their knives since they just design and then contract with Rowen for the build? I’m sure they’d be surprised to hear that they don’t know about their own product.
 
calm said:
I often wonder about Bose getting Case to make some knives (collaboration line, or just the cheaper design line), whether that would upset some, especially those that bought the "real" Bose for a lot of money.
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While I have sold off my custom Bose knives...no Bose collector would feel threatened or that his custom Bose knives were somehow devalued by the presence of the Case offerings.

Collectors of custom knives buy the knives for many more reasons than "utility" alone. Pride of ownership, the relationship with the maker, the scarcity of the knife, the custom craftsmanship and a variety of other factors go into it.

I was with my late friend "Kit" Carson when he got his deal with CRKT. I couldn't have been happier for that good man to enjoy the fruits of his labors.
Those "replicas" wouldn't have any effect on the value of his handmade knives which mean so much to me.
 
Guys, another gentle reminder that politics, child labor laws, universal health care and such are fodder for other sub-forums...not this one. Thank you.

@19-3ben I think Sam was speaking in broad terms and not singling out a given maker. I know Jeff, (and the late Mike Perrin), pretty well and have spent a good deal of time with him in years past...and no question he knows his product...and he knows how to employ them.
Of course, Sam can speak for himself, and I am just offering my thought regarding his earlier comments.
 
In my opinion, it is insanely difficult to make it in the knife-world; it takes a lot of grit and savvy to eke out a living at it. I have a lot of respect for those who find a way to do it, and it doesn't matter if they wear the Designer or Maker label. In either category, most will fade away to obscurity without ever making it to the launch pad of success.
 
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