Designer vs Makers

I don't recall saying there was less quality now. Saying there is more junk or bad design philosophy now does not necessarily equate to less quality products being made. Just more junk being made, separate concepts.

mak1277 said:
I was responding to your idea that there was less quality now than in the past, which I would reject as being totally inaccurate. Maybe as a % of the total you’re right, but there are more good knives available now than ever before
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Sam
 
Not going to spend much more time on this aspect, where do I say there is "less quality being produced now?"

Quote: It's about producing a sellable product now, not necessarily quality product.

Does not = less quality product. Different concepts. One is a design philosophy, the other a statement about products in the marketplace. Regardless, neither are the point of this discussion.

Sam

mak1277 said:
You wrote:



I was responding to that concept.
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I think there are more good knives available now than ever before. I'd bet anything on it.

And I'll also say, being an old SOB who got his first knife in the late 1950's, that I've seen tons of crap from back in the day as well. A lot of it from overseas, and plenty of homegrown junk too.

Now, I have always loved knives and always will, but I'm not afraid of the truth. It is what it is.

I had knife purveyors back in the 90's calling me from shows in Miami because their overseas container loads of cheap knife goods were seized by inspectors for one of any number of import violations. I went down to the shows to convince them that the gov't wasn't targeting them or their livelihood.
(This was back in the day when a Sebenza was the holy grail...even among many custom makers...and before I got my hands on one in 1998.)

There's plenty of chaff mixed in with the wheat...but if you ask me, the knife world overall is an embarrassment of riches overall. There's something for everyone and then some. And the quality is outstanding, by and large.

That said, there will always be a special place, for me at least, for the traditional patterns that go back a century and more. I'm a knife nut. I'm not ashamed of that. And the truth is the truth.
 
Well, there are more highly intelligent people than ever in the US. And it is equally true that there are more really dumb people than ever in the US. Because intelligence falls on a bell curve AND there are more PEOPLE than ever before in the US. So both statements are true.

Maybe the same with knives. More great knives AND more junk knives. Because there are more knives than ever.
 
SwissHeritageCo said:
OP,

What are some example companies? I would imagine it takes a fair amount of business savvy and technical skill to pull off such a feat regardless. Not to mention invesment.
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Arcane designs is a good example, there are many more that I can’t remember that I came across at the Dallas and Atlanta blade show. Once I figured out what the company was about I moved on and so I don’t remember their names. There was one guy that put a round indentation in the handle on both sides where you can grip with your thumb and middle finger and flick open the knife open by flicking your wrist. He was claiming to have designed a new opening mechanism. 🤪
 
I could probably go through the exhibitor list and find more if necessary.
 
To get back on topic it’s really not about quality especially since the manufacturers over seas are now making very high quality. It’s more about at some point is everything going to be massed produced by giant manufacturers that will put anybody’s name on it that came up with a design. It’s definitely going to put pressure on smaller knife makers like CRK, Medford and even Spyderco and benchmade. Another perfect example is sunglasses. 90% or more of all sunglasses are made by 2 giant manufacturers no matter what name is on the lens.
 
Any person/business who has a product reserves the right to charge what the want. The knife market is more competitive than ever. Consumers have more choices than ever. I think it’s a good thing for every knife enthusiast.
 
Biochemdawg said:
Any person/business who has a product reserves the right to charge what the want. The knife market is more competitive than ever. Consumers have more choices than ever. I think it’s a good thing for every knife enthusiast.
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Choices are great but I also like the history of company/maker I’m supporting
 
Industries change. Companies come and go. Horses were replaced as the most common form of transportation.

But while we have them, and they're still legal to possess for most of us...give me a knife with soul.
 
Arcane designs was selling his knives in the $2-300 price range. How many he sold, I don’t know but if people are willing to buy his knives with that business model, how long till benchmade and Spyderco go the same route and most likely increase profit margins. Suddenly every knife is made by a few giant manufacturers. It’s happened with sunglasses, watches, bicycles etc. The knife industry has been spared so far but to me I see it on the horizon.
 
mitchnola said:
I think a good example of what I’m describing and concerned about would be the music industry. Through the seventies, eighties and nineties bands made their way through the music scene putting their time in perfecting their music and musicianship while creating a following leading to them getting noticed, signing to a label then becoming rock/pop stars etc. It was a bottom up path to earn the success. Now a days its a top down approach where music executives find a pretty/handsome face, write some music for them, auto tune their voice and blast it into your ear’s till you can’t not sing along. It’s sad but there’s not a kid out there now that can name a current great guitarist.

I just hope the knife industry isn’t heading in this direction where everything just becomes eye candy by a designer then produced by third party manufacturers regardless of where they’re made. Just seems inauthentic to me. I appreciate someone that puts the time in, fights through the struggle, puts their 10,000 hrs in and if fortunate enough becomes successful. I hope in 20 years kids will be able to still name great makers of their era.
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Algorithms will be designing, making, and deciding who is worthy of receiving of said knives.......unfortunately, Your social credit score Only allows You a 1.00" long blade. .... If you're lucky
 
Crag the Brewer said:
Algorithms will be designing, making, and deciding who is worthy of receiving of said knives.......unfortunately, Your social credit score Only allows You a 1.00" long blade. .... If you're lucky
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Speaking of which, I bet someone could give a few prompts to ChatGPT-4 and tell it to design a knife with certain features. Human designers may be obsolete in a few months.
 
Locutus D'Borg said:
Speaking of which, I bet someone could give a few prompts to ChatGPT-4 and tell it to design a knife with certain features. Human designers may be obsolete in a few months.
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I can almost guarantee that it's being done, now already.....

I know in the brewing industry it's already started.....they were doing it to be Cute, to be edgy, to be different.

I think it's just opening Pandora's box
 
Sam Wilson said:
For the guys completely missing the point of the OP's question/statement, were you even at Blade this year and see what was on a lot of tables? A LOT of people, both consumers and people in the industry, were saying the same thing as the OP and what I have said.

If you were there and didn't have have a similar thought, that's entirely fine. But many experienced folks did. Everyone gets their own opinion, and I respect that principle.

Sam
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What I see from this post is there is a lot of opportunity from some USA manufacturers to tap into what these off-shore companies are doing, then. You could then have designers working directly with USA makers/manufacturers instead of off-shoring everything.

As strictly a designer and product development specialist, I've found it very hard to find any suitable USA manufacturers even to contact about getting quotes on making some things for me, so I talk with makers and then have been contacting European manufacturers instead.

If there's any real problem here, in my mind, the market will fix it. If people like what the designers are doing with contract manufacturing, which is wildly popular in most industries, then it will stick around. If people don't like it and none of these contract made blades sell well then they just go out of business in a few years, the destiny of most businesses.
 
I have all of the work for my mid-tech line done here in the U.S. and the solution is very straightforward- it simply costs a lot more money. Pretty easy to figure out the rest at that point.

Sam

bikerector said:
What I see from this post is there is a lot of opportunity from some USA manufacturers to tap into what these off-shore companies are doing, then. You could then have designers working directly with USA makers/manufacturers instead of off-shoring everything.

As strictly a designer and product development specialist, I've found it very hard to find any suitable USA manufacturers even to contact about getting quotes on making some things for me, so I talk with makers and then have been contacting European manufacturers instead.

If there's any real problem here, in my mind, the market will fix it. If people like what the designers are doing with contract manufacturing, which is wildly popular in most industries, then it will stick around. If people don't like it and none of these contract made blades sell well then they just go out of business in a few years, the destiny of most businesses.
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What I have noticed is a significant increase of Italian made knives. Look for titanium and M390 :)

Most Italian companies existed for decades making mainly traditional knives but are now producing really good modern and traditional knives. I know people focus on the Asian made knives, but many designers and companies are also using the italian factories to produce knives. (Lionsteel, MKM, Viper seem to be the main ones.
 
SwissHeritageCo said:
OP,

What are some example companies? I would imagine it takes a fair amount of business savvy and technical skill to pull off such a feat regardless. Not to mention invesment.
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If you have ever seen an A G Russell catalog, most of AGs folding knives were made in China, albeit to a very high standard.....
 
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