Different Steel for Busse knives?

Grimspoon said:
So what advantages do the other steels listed have over Infi?
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My question also, in all your experiences with Busse knives made from INFI and knives made from the other steels you mentioned, what is INFI lacking that you would want a busse model made from another steel?
 
Str8Edg said:
What can any of us noodle-heads possibly do to help you with this? Seriously,you know that the only one on this forum who has any say in the matter is Boss Hog. How is this more productive than writing directly to Jerry?
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Why? I hope you will add your voice to this too. One thing is me suggesting this - other thing we here agreed on this matter or at least discuss this. After all this is what forum is for.

I do not think that I was offensive or disrespectful. Of course I have different cultural background and may sounds this way - if so I am Sorry, but I think this at least worse to be discussed in respectful and intellegent way.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Why? Do not you see everybody jumping around some limited experimental limited edition of Busse Game Warden with Black/Orange G10 and CPM S90V?

I can imagine as everybody starts drooling after skunk show us some pictures and starts countdown in BCS for that one. I'll be first near the Trough. From collector point of view it will be almost like hard attack experience...

To me it will just add another dimension to all this variety Busse already have with different scales and blade finishes.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Jerry did not invent CPM S90V, he invented INFI. Why in the world would he use a steel from crucible, or anyone else for that matter.
Think about it.

I'm not saying I wouldn't buy a Busse with S90V, and I have a few knives made of S30V.

I'm just saying it won't happen, and I think you know that Vassili
 
nozh2002 said:
No.

Thanks, Vassili.
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INFI is superior across the board. Period.

There are steels that can surpass INFI in individual categories such as edge holding on soft media, stain resistance, etc. . . . but none that come remotely close to INFI when being compared across the board to the wide variety of categories that INFI excells at.

If there were such a steel or heat treat being used, I can assure you that the manufacturer using it would be anxious to prove it in LIVE demonstrations like we have.

I'd love to see the INFI tests performed with CPM S90V. . . :eek:. . . .Of course I would like to see this from behind some really thick lexan!!! :D

Thanks,

Jerry :D


.
 
Vassili -

Jerry's got a great thing going; and has a lot - a lot - invested in INFI.

I've got to agree with the others who've suggested you contact him directly to get the best answer to your OP question.
 
Grimspoon said:
Did I accidentally feed a troll?
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no, vassili is not a troll.

nozh2002 said:
Why? I hope you will add your voice to this too. One thing is me suggesting this - other thing we here agreed on this matter or at least discuss this. After all this is what forum is for.

I do not think that I was offensive or disrespectful. Of course I have different cultural background and may sounds this way - if so I am Sorry, but I think this at least worse to be discussed in respectful and intellegent way.

Thanks, Vassili.
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i dont think you were disrespectful at all, vassili.

i dont think we will be seeing knives from busse combat in anything but infi.

there is the possibility that jerry improves on his steel recipe, i suppose, though i doubt it.

remember, it is the steel, first and foremost, that makes a knife a busse combat knife.
 
nozh2002 said:
Why? I hope you will add your voice to this too. One thing is me suggesting this - other thing we here agreed on this matter or at least discuss this. After all this is what forum is for.

I do not think that I was offensive or disrespectful. Of course I have different cultural background and may sounds this way - if so I am Sorry, but I think this at least worse to be discussed in respectful and intellegent way.

Thanks, Vassili.
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*crickets chirping*

I wasn't trying to imply you were offensive; don't know where that's coming from? I think Jerry's response says it all. No worries bro. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
Infi is a PROPRIETARY steel that is only be used by BUSSE. Like what Morimotom said, its the steel that make a Busse a Busse, any other knife company could use A2, which is very similar to infi, but is NOT INFI!

Thanks
Bill
 
Gerberblades said:
Infi is a PROPRIETARY steel that is only be used by BUSSE. Like what Morimotom said, its the steel that make a Busse a Busse, any other knife company could use A2, which is very similar to infi, but is NOT INFI!

Thanks
Bill
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i momentarily forgot about the older a2 models. those are still busse knives.


:p
 
nozh2002 said:
I am wondering why Busse can not produce same models out of different steels?

So far it is only Swamp Rat and Scrap Yard have SR101 and SR77 - but it is still different knives. I think there is a huge market for Game Warden, the way it made by Busse, but with SR101 as well as SR77.

I do not see why we can not have small models with ZDP-189 or YXR7 or CPM 10V or UHB17Va...

So far Busse has exceptional success with big variety of handles, colors etc. I think if you multiply this variety on variety of steels it may have even greater success.

I like to have Game Warden made from ZDP189 then from SRS-15 ten from M2... With same QA and CS and everything Busse known for.

Thanks, Vassili.
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It's funny. I have read comments by many makers who wish that Jerry would release infi for them to use in their knives. I wonder why they would do that when they have all these great steels at their disposal. I think it comes down to their desire to try out the best all around steel they have tested and I think you know that Jerry is not about to use these steels you mention even though many of them are excellent. You left out 3V which I like very much. But as others suggested write to the man who could make your wish come true.
Who knows what might happen?
I know.........Jerry will use INFI which aint a bad choice.
 
The chef's knife Jerry is making for Amy is also going to be made out of ATS-34.
But that decision was clearly motivated by CHEESECAKE. Homer Simpson voice ... CHEEEEEESECAAAAAAKE :D
 
This is data I was talking about:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=509097

Different knives may benefit from different properties, for sailor knife stain resistance is most important and small Game Warden may benefit from even higher edge retention (at least on manila rope), so I think it may be reasonable to have one like this in addition to INFI model.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
infi does not chip at 60rc. find me a steel that has that property, and I'll buy some knives in it. until such a steel arises, I see no reason for busse to use anything else.


swamp rat and scrap yard use different steels because they are cheaper then infi, not necessarily because they want steel variety. both companies attempt to attain infi's chip resistance while saving money in order to produce lower costing knives. all 3 companies make hard use knives, not slicers. every knife has to be able to stand up to the lifetime warrantee, meaning it has to be extremely difficult to break by hand.


any knife steel that fails this question should not be used by any of the busse family companies - "will it chip or break if I hit it on a rock (small or large) in a full power swing?".


I'm sure that sounds ridiculous to someone who believes that knife use requires finesse, that anyone who hits a knife on a rock is retarded. but thats the bar that has been set by infi. it is a hard use steel, meant to be the best at taking as much physical abuse as possible while keeping as many of the good attributes of a knife steel as possible.


from what I've seen, jerry isn't interested in making the highest abrasion resistent steel ever, he was interested in a chip resistant steel. he wasn't interested in a steel that could be brought to 65rc and remain reletively stable, he was/is interested in a steel that can be as hard as possible without losing chip resistance and strength/shock resistance.


the things that you are interested in as far as knife steels are important - but they are secondary to the primary requirement of any steel used by any of the busse combat families.

if jerry is to be beleived (and I have no reason to disbeleive him), his company is constantly slammed with orders. there is a seemingly unlimited demand for knives made of infi. busse combat has no reason to switch to another steel that does not meet the primary standard of infi (chip resistance and strength at high hardness).



maybe you can get swamp rat or scrap yard to make you something like your asking. I don't want busse to do what your asking. it would be a waste of their time considering the goal of the company (hard use knives).
 
Ken44 said:
Jerry did not invent CPM S90V, he invented INFI. Why in the world would he use a steel from crucible, or anyone else for that matter.
Think about it.

I'm not saying I wouldn't buy a Busse with S90V, and I have a few knives made of S30V.

I'm just saying it won't happen, and I think you know that Vassili
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INFI is really only INFI when properly heat treated, so comparing to the various steels from Crucible (or any other mill) doesn't really make sense. The CPM steels are made in a specific way with specific elements, but that is independent of the way the steel is later worked and heat treated. A mediocre steel with great heat treat can outperform a great steel with mediocre heat treat.

As always, there is no free lunch. If you want a steel that is great at one or two specific tasks, you can absolutely produce such a thing that will outperform INFI _at those tasks_, but it will almost certainly underperform against INFI in most other areas. It is the right balance of various performance characteristics that is hard to strike. I think Vassili just disagrees about what the right balance it is.

Vive la difference!
 
nozh2002 said:
This is data I was talking about:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=509097

Different knives may benefit from different properties, for sailor knife stain resistance is most important and small Game Warden may benefit from even higher edge retention (at least on manila rope), so I think it may be reasonable to have one like this in addition to INFI model.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Thanks for sharing your data. So you've concluded that Cold Steel's 420 is the end all of knife steel because it performed well in your manila rope test? This is exactly the kind of "data" that I think Jerry was referring to when he said:
"There are steels that can surpass INFI in individual categories such as edge holding on soft media, stain resistance, etc. . . . but none that come remotely close to INFI when being compared across the board to the wide variety of categories that INFI excells at."

He's conceded that in individual categories its possible that other steels may outperform, BUT that NONE compare in across the board data tests, see? Have you conducted full spectrum tests, or are are you just excited to have found a stainless that holds an edge well?
 
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