Disappointed in dealings with knivesanonymous

from tim kuenstler hide details Aug 16 (4 days ago)

to Steve Gosik
date Aug 16, 2008 1:53 PM
subject Re: Snody
signed-by yahoo.com
mailed-by yahoo.com

Steve, the knife is as stated in the thread. The grind is Snody's original grind. I only stropped the knife a few times and never took it to a grinder, rough stone or used any type of carbid sharpining systems. Send him the knife and he will refurb it for you. I set the price accordingly to the condition the knife was in. Mike is a very kind knifemaker and he will not have any problem cleaning the knife up for you. I do not have the money to return to you as I sold the knife to finance the eqipment I would needed for the acadamy I leaving to next week.

Regards,

Tim
 
from Steve Gosik hide details Aug 17 (3 days ago)
to tim kuenstler
date Aug 17, 2008 11:20 AM
subject Re: Snody
mailed-by gmail.com

Tim,


Mike told me that the blade shape is not original. I can see sharpening marks on the blade. I am sorry you do not have the money, but etiquette says that a sale is not complete until both parties are satisfied with the transaction. I am not being unreasonable as I will be happy to pay for shipping both ways because I don't believe you tried to be deceitful and you shouldn't have to be out the shipping.


As far as price, as described the price was fair. However, this didn't take into account the things that could not be seen in the photos including the marks on the edge. FYI at the same time you had this for sale there was a full-dress Damascus resistor which had never been used or carried for sale for $850.


Mike is a fried of mine. He will fix this knife as best he can if you refuse to make things right. At that point I will be out more money. In addition he can't add metal back to the blade to correct the blade shape. If you are unwilling to help in correcting this situation I will be posting a thread on G,B&U.


Steve
 
from Steve Gosik hide details Aug 18 (2 days ago)
to tim kuenstler
date Aug 18, 2008 6:23 PM
subject Re: Snody
mailed-by gmail.com

Since I have not heard back from you I assume you are not willing to try to resolve this?


Steve
 
from Tim Kuenstler hide details Aug 18 (2 days ago)
to Steve Gosik
date Aug 18, 2008 7:09 PM
subject Re: Snody
signed-by yahoo.com
mailed-by yahoo.com

Steve, I'm sorry you are unhappy but as I've told you before I did not represent the knife. I sold the knife to pay bills before I go to boot camp.


Tim

Sent from my iPhone
 
from Steve Gosik hide details 9:34 pm (2½ hours ago)
to Tim Kuenstler
date Aug 19, 2008 9:34 PM
subject Re: Snody
mailed-by gmail.com

Tim,

As I said I would I posted a thread over in B,G&U on BFC. Just wanted to give you the opportunity to check it out.

Steve
 
One final note. As I was copying the correspondence I got a private message from a member on another forum who relayed a bad deal with Tim. So I know there is at least one other person who feels Tim has not handled a transaction with them properly.
 
one2gofst you did fine and in my opinion you are civil and would be nice to deal with. You are even willing to give the benefit of doubt and pay for shipping for both ways which I personally would never do in your situation.

knivesanonymous I am not stating that you are in the wrong or anything of the sort. The matter regarding the representation/description of the knife's condition lies (in my opinion) in the result of Mike Snody's analysis of the level of alteration of the knife. Be it minimal (like knivesanonymous said) or to the point where the knife's is not just minimally altered (like one2gofst said).

Another thing,
knivesanonymous said:
Snody Hybrid $700

Carried w/ a few hairline scratches on the blade and Clip. Great over all condition with earily lock up. The blade is razor sharp what you've come to expect from Mike. The blade sits perfectly centered. This knife makes for one great edc knife.
Click to expand...

Next time you must not forget to include descriptions like 'sharpened', 'used' and etc and using phrases like 'razor sharp what you've come to expect from Mike' is very misleading as the edge was touched by you and not as expected from Mike. Do you honestly think Mike's level of sharpening was displayed on that knife?
 
well, i can see both sides points, on the one hand the knife wasnt in the condition that was expected, i agree its hard to tell from pics sometimes, like wolfman said, i too have a user that from pics looks LNIB, on the other hand the $$ is gone, what to do?

imho one way to solve the problem would be to ship the knife to snody and let him re-furbish it, i doubt it would be very much, and i imagine he could get it to where it was acceptable, once done imho the 2 parties involved should split the cost down the middle including shipping cost.

other than that i really dont know WTF to do.

imho it does all boil down to "a deal aint done till both parties are happy" ya really shouldnt have spent the $$ until ya got an ok that all was well, but it did take a while for the buyer to get back with the seller (but the seller did stae he was gonna be gone.....) and one folks minor issues are anothers major issues, imho a lot of misunderstandings & like i said other than sending it to snody, or returning the thing/sending $$ back(& the $$ is gone.....) i dont know what would resolve the issues.i do hope ya can work it out.

edited to add- from the pic it does look pretty good FWIW.
 
A knife in "great shape" should not need a refurb!! THe for sale posts do not indicate anything but hairline scratches and nothing about a stropped blade.

Also, I read an out of Town notification that is alleged to have been sent, if thats the case send the man his money as this is not a deal in my book.And, he asks via E-mail if you got the MO but I see nothing from you asking if he got the $700 knife. Did it not worry you that the knife "may" not have arrived or did you know the guy was out of town?

A deal is a deal when both parties are happy and until those words are conveyed the money should not be spent.
 
The knife can't be re-sold using the original description so the Buyer will never be made whole. If it's refurbished then it can't be resold with out full disclosure.

Seems the best options to resolve this are:

1) Buyer pays to return the knife and seller refunds the entire purchase price. If the seller doesn’t have the money on hand then they should set up payment options or a time frame to refund the entire amount.
2) If the buyer is willing- both parties should agree on a new price for the knife based on the diminished value of the knife. The Seller should refund the difference then buyer can then decide on having it refurbished.

If the Seller thinks it was properly described then having it returned and issuing a refund is the least expensive option. Otherwise the Seller not the Buyer should incur the expense of making the transaction acceptable to the Buyer.


As a Buyer I’ve reversed a few transactions here and the Sellers response and graciousness have been humbling. These Sellers set an example that I will strive to emulate. In a way the reversed transactions were some of the best because they really set the example of how a transaction should be done and really defined the motto- The Transaction isn’t complete until both parties are satisfied.


Mitch
 
knivesanonymous said:
Steve you can post all you want but this is not going to change anything. This knife was not misrepresented!!
Click to expand...

Yes it was. The knife was described as being razor sharp, what you've come to expect from Mike. That was not true. You had sharpened the blade yourself and it was no longer what could be described as what you would expect from Mike. That in itself is misrepresentation.

Steve, is there any way you can get good photos of the condition of the blade and post them for us to see. It would be interesting to see how close the actual condition of the blade is compared to how it was described.
 
Unfortunately it is not. I am on the road right now. I do have a digital camera at home that I can get to end of next week, but it is not a DSLR and I am not an expert photographer but I will try.

To be fair, I know that it can be hard to photograph scratches on a satin finish, which, combined with the fact that people sometimes evaluate wear differently, is why I have always made sure both parties were satisfied with a deal.
 
just so im clear:

the knife was shipped on 8-4-08 at the earliest. knivesanon stated receipt of the mo on 8-2-08, and stated it would ship monday. the next monday was 8-4-08.

one2 advised he was out of town, and sent an email stating dissatisfaction on 8-16-08 (that's 12 days). figure 3-5 days en route, so it sat unopened for only 7-9 days. and if we subtract sundays, that's two fewer days we should account for.

knivesanon's response (8-16-08):

I'm sorry you are unhappy with the knife but I shipped you the knife well over a few weeks ago.
Click to expand...
hardly. he received communication that one2 would be out of town, and then received the next email 12 days later.

since when is 12 days equal to a few weeks?

what am i reading incorrectly? the time frame was perfectly acceptable.

knivesanon's credibility was shot when i read that sentence in the email. he is wrong and should refund one2. his personal financial obligations have little to do with whether or not the money should be returned. arrange for a payment plan if necessary, but make it good.
 
The buyer isn't happy and for good reason. The money needs to be refunded back to him.
 
wolfmann601 said:
A knife in "great shape" should not need a refurb!! THe for sale posts do not indicate anything but hairline scratches and nothing about a stropped blade.

Also, I read an out of Town notification that is alleged to have been sent, if thats the case send the man his money as this is not a deal in my book.And, he asks via E-mail if you got the MO but I see nothing from you asking if he got the $700 knife. Did it not worry you that the knife "may" not have arrived or did you know the guy was out of town?

A deal is a deal when both parties are happy and until those words are conveyed the money should not be spent.
Click to expand...

oh i agree with ya, imho the problem is the $$ is gone now according to the seller regardless of whats right/wrong, if the buyer wants to set up a payment plan that would be cool if the seller comes thru anyway, my only hope was they could get it settled before the seller starts thinking "ya know it'd be a lot easier to just disappear vs dealing with this"(not that i have any idea he's thinking that).

or let the seller pay for the refurb.

i get the impression the guy aint paying the $700 back, perhaps i'm getting the wrong impression?

of course the RIGHT thing to do would be to refund the $$ & not have spent it till ya got an ok, i do believe we are way past that point though.

anyway hope it works out.
 
Well, Tim emailed me lest night. Unfortunately his offer to make things right involved me sending the Snody and $100 in exchange for a Carson which I have no interest in.

Actually, although not my preferred method, I would be willing to work out a payment arrangement. Even if he stopped paying me, I wouldn't be out anymore than I already am.
 
Interesting thread. I looked at the for sale post and I agree that the knife was misrepresented regarding the edge being sharpened.
 
one2gofst said:
Well, Tim emailed me lest night. Unfortunately his offer to make things right involved me sending the Snody and $100 in exchange for a Carson which I have no interest in.

Actually, although not my preferred method, I would be willing to work out a payment arrangement. Even if he stopped paying me, I wouldn't be out anymore than I already am.
Click to expand...

IMO, I wouldn't want a payment arrangement. What are you a finance company?

Tim should sell the Carson asap and send you $700 from its sale. If he doesn't make good on this sour deal, he should be banned from here.
 
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