Disappointing Customer Service Refusal Due to Mod

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Peter Hartwig said:
Agreed, but if he can't get the correct parts, what other choice does he have than aftermarket ? Undoubtedly not a good position to be in.
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He can get the correct parts, same way I did...steal them from another unmodified Sebenza. Easy peasy;)
 
WValtakis said:
He can get the correct parts, same way I did...steal them from another unmodified Sebenza. Easy peasy;)
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,

Those are some pretty expensive washers, if you don't already own the 2nd knife, but if that is the only possible solution-so be it
 
South paw draw said:
Well seems you also don't own a CRK and have flaw logic. I happen to own a few. Even have one that's modded. And I know the one that's modded had just about zero chance of being warranted. It states as much in the paperwork. So if OP had read the paperwork he also knew going in that he was voiding the warranty. First thing he should have done was sent it in for spa treatment and got a second set of washers and a pivot bushing. Or wing it and pick up a second one and use the parts off of it. It's not rocket science. Even though you're trying to make it out like it is.
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Reading. It's fundamental.

best

mqqn
 
Quiet said:
So, you put hand-fit into quotation marks as though you question the benefit of it, at the same suggesting that washers that don't actually fit would be fine?

Huh, ok then. Carry on.
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I put hand-fit in quotes because it was emphasized on a few prior quotes, that is all.

The question is, would a washer that was not, and I'll not quote because I offend, hand-fit at the factory but in fact had a thousandth or two of play, cause trouble with the knife?

I think maybe we are out in CRK-land on that one, but....Carry on, sir.

best

mqqn
 
WValtakis said:
Ok, so the deal is this...the washers are hand lapped so they leave 0.0005" clearance with the pivot screw tight (according to Chris Reeve). This is the whole point of the bushing pivot system, suggestions to "make do" with aftermarket parts by people who don't understand how the system works just defeats the whole point of owning a Sebenza.
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Ok - I get it - with the spacer the washer has to be a specific thickness to be able to tighten the pivot down.
I was just thinking the diameter of the pivot hole.
Makes sense.

The moral is - don't put Spydie-holes in your CRK and they will be able to help you.

best

mqqn
 
mqqn said:
I put hand-fit in quotes because it was emphasized on a few prior quotes, that is all.

The question is, would a washer that was not, and I'll not quote because I offend, hand-fit at the factory but in fact had a thousandth or two of play, cause trouble with the knife?

I think maybe we are out in CRK-land on that one, but....Carry on, sir.

best

mqqn
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Given that we're talking about a CRK, where exacting tolerances are, you know, sort of the entire point of the knife, I would assume you'd agree that "Eh, it's close enough" is a complete waste. It would be like putting monster truck tires on a tiny econobox. Money spent, to make something worthless.
 
Quiet said:
Given that we're talking about a CRK, where exacting tolerances are, you know, sort of the entire point of the knife, I would assume you'd agree that "Eh, it's close enough" is a complete waste. It would be like putting monster truck tires on a tiny econobox. Money spent, to make something worthless.
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I agree - the bushing and all that on the CRK - it's the hand-fit thickness of the washers. I was just thinking of the diameter of the pivot hole. It's over. Go back to CRK-ville and get lapping. :P

By the way, Chris is a great fellow to drink with, and he will take you up on your offer of some good Irish Whiskey. We lapped that up too.

best

mqqn
 
WValtakis said:
He can get the correct parts, same way I did...steal them from another unmodified Sebenza. Easy peasy;)
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Quiet said:
Given that we're talking about a CRK, where exacting tolerances are, you know, sort of the entire point of the knife, I would assume you'd agree that "Eh, it's close enough" is a complete waste. It would be like putting monster truck tires on a tiny econobox. Money spent, to make something worthless.
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Ok - now I am confused. Two well respected members. One says that you can just steal parts from another Sebenza, and the other says that each specific washer needs to have exacting tolerances.

All good, Gentleman - and I love that you both have such passion for CRK - they are indeed great knives and the one example I had was an absolute jewel. I am just confused by the dichotomy presented.

In the context of the OP, he just wants washers. If he could steal them from another knife, then why couldn't he use some washers from CRK?

Just having fun on a dreary Monday evening, don't take it personal. If we were all together in a room I would be serving the drinks of choice and we could have the same conversation, but we would be playing with knives while we did so.

And to conclude - I still wonder why a Spydie-hole in an already beautiful CRK?

best

mqqn
 
mqqn said:
Ok - now I am confused. Two well respected members. One says that you can just steal parts from another Sebenza, and the other says that each specific washer needs to have exacting tolerances.

All good, Gentleman - and I love that you both have such passion for CRK - they are indeed great knives and the one example I had was an absolute jewel. I am just confused by the dichotomy presented.

In the context of the OP, he just wants washers. If he could steal them from another knife, then why couldn't he use some washers from CRK?

Just having fun on a dreary Monday evening, don't take it personal. If we were all together in a room I would be serving the drinks of choice and we could have the same conversation, but we would be playing with knives while we did so.
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If I may stick my nose in and add a third (or fourth) voice to the discussion, this is where it gets a little “artsy.”

CRK has a spec for how the Sebenza pivot assembly stacks up. The spec is composed of two washers, a pivot bushing, and a blade. There's also a stop pin, but we can ignore that for the moment. This spec is obtained primarily by adjusting the washers on each knife by hand.

In a perfect world everything all stacks up correctly and because the blade and pivot bushing are held to a very tight dimension, the adjustment to each oversized washer is identical. However, the world is not perfect, and there are small differences which are accounted for in the hand fitting.

This does mean that you could conceivably take the washers from one knife and put them into another. This will probably work, but it doesn't mean it will work the best or work as it should.

mqqn said:
And to conclude - I still wonder why a Spydie-hole in an already beautiful CRK?
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Truth
 
mqqn said:
In the context of the OP, he just wants washers. If he could steal them from another knife, then why couldn't he use some washers from CRK?
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As stated multiple times in this thread, swapping parts between Sebenzas sometimes works out, sometimes not. In my case, the washers I got from another Sebenza worked out perfectly...if they hadn't I would have lapped them or the bushing to size. If you really want to be anal about it, measure all the parts and assemble the spare Sebenza in a manner that will closely replicate the measurements on the modified Sebenza before sending the spare Sebenza in to have new washers fitted. This will probably mean using the bushing from the modified Sebenza in the spare.

What it boils down to, is that it's not rocket science...anyone with a solid understanding of how it works and the ability to operate a set of calipers can do it...but if you don't get it you're probably best leaving it alone.
 
You could have your good washer 3d printed and those would be fit to your current sebenza as a drop in.
 
Send it in without the blade. Tell them the blade got lost lol and pay for new blade.
 
WValtakis WValtakis - I agree. It's not rocket science.

I think CRK could assist owners of modified knives that require servicing by sending out the standard washers that have not been pre-fitted for those customers that have knives that are refused service under the modification policy, and that customer could then contract with a competent craftsman such as yourself to lap the washer to the correct stacked tolerance, or take the task in hand on their own.

As it stands, it seems to the impacted as if CRK is turning their back on the customer, although in a business sense they do stand to make more money this way; the customer is forced to buy another knife in order to fix the one needing attention. Note - I do not think for one second that this was cooked up in a business meeting, it is just a culmination of circumstances.

An interesting dilemma for the OP, and I have not seen this as a regular or common issue so maybe this is such an outlier that it does not bear effort to address, and that I can also understand.

Now I am morbidly curious; I would like to see a picture of this Small Spydenza....

best

mqqn
 
mqqn said:
I think CRK could assist owners of modified knives that require servicing by sending out the standard washers that have not been pre-fitted for those customers that have knives that are refused service under the modification policy, and that customer could then contract with a competent craftsman such as yourself to lap the washer to the correct stacked tolerance, or take the task in hand on their own.
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CRK could assist owners of modified knives, and they choose not to. I can think of several reasons why they would choose not to. The first being that in this scenario they would be expecting a customer who mucked up a washer during reassembly to locate a “competent craftsman” to lap washers into a very specific tolerance. This, while possible, seems to me to be unlikely.
 
mqqn said:
As it stands, it seems to the impacted as if CRK is turning their back on the customer, although in a business sense they do stand to make more money this way; the customer is forced to buy another knife in order to fix the one needing attention.
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CRK is hardly turning their back on the customer. The customer modified their knife, CRK said they don't work on modified knives, I hardly see how this is anywhere close to being their problem.

Can we invent new ways for them to solve this problem? Sure! Will that change their mind? No!
 
Josh K said:
CRK could assist owners of modified knives, and they choose not to. I can think of several reasons why they would choose not to. The first being that in this scenario they would be expecting a customer who mucked up a washer during reassembly to locate a “competent craftsman” to lap washers into a very specific tolerance. This, while possible, seems to me to be unlikely.
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Did you just use quotes on me? :)

I put in italics the turning back thing to separate the thought; it was in context of the OP.

We do have people in this thread that seem to disagree with you in that being able to concoct that elusive stacked tolerance is quite attainable.

Discuss, but have fun doing so.

best

mqqn
 
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