Disgusted with Boker ads

CPR · Apr 12, 2001

To all in opposition to the Boker ad-

Do you complain about 160mph speedometers on cars? How about 85mph speedometers? How you react to advertising is a personal choice. And yes, I speed regularly

Chris

anthony cheeseboro · Apr 12, 2001

CPR, since when did TEd Turner own all media? ABC is owned by Disney, CBS is part of Viacom, NBC is part of GE. These are all large faceless corporations that are not exactly liberal or progressive. I for one am left wing and proud of it. I also am a knife nut and have been one my whole life. As knife nuts, we are a minority. We need to work together for maintaining knife rights and promoting the legal and positive use of knives. That is why I am against the Boker ads.

Razoredj · Apr 12, 2001

Do you complain about 160mph speedometers on cars? How about 85mph speedometers? How you react to advertising is a personal choice. And yes, I speed regularly...

Comparing the two is faulty reasoning. A more apt analogy would be an advertisement for Corvettes that claims the 'vette is "perfect for outrunning the cops after you've broken the law."

Straw men are easy to knock down, and they don't talk back.

-Razor

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AKTI #A000845
And tomorrow when you wake up it will be worse.

CPR · Apr 12, 2001

I believe that could be implied by the mere existence of a 160mph speedometer.

Brian_Turner · Apr 12, 2001

I think a better analogy might be the entire industry which sells radar detectors/jammers.

Or pro wrestling, which would seem to advocate settling our disputes through violence.

Or shows like "The Sopranos" which depict an upper middle class lifestyle as the reward for criminal activity.

The world is full of messages, many of them skewed from "acceptible". It is a sign of our intelligence when we know which of these messages are genuine encouragement to do wrong, and which are simple amusements, entertainment, or quips that appear in knife ads. I think that the term "reactionary" can be applied to either liberals or conservatives, it's only a matter of which direction your knee jerks in.

CPR · Apr 12, 2001

Anthony,

Disney? I'm going to leave that one alone.

Razoredj · Apr 12, 2001

The mere existence of a speedometer labeled up to 160 mph (or a car that can go that fast) is directly comparable to the mere existence of a sharp knife. Both can be used to break the law. Both can be used for the purposes for which they are intended (transporation or cutting). This is not directly comparable to ad copy that, at the very least, appears to encourage illegal activity.

The radar detector/jammer analogy is acceptable.

The plot lines of fictional entertainment (wrestling being one of these, the Supranos another) and the copy used in an advertisement encouraging someone to buy and use a product are not the same.

The world is full of messages, many of them skewed from "acceptible". It is a sign of our intelligence when we know which of these messages are genuine encouragement to do wrong, and which are simple amusements, entertainment, or quips that appear in knife ads.

Believe it or not, a person who disagrees with you is not necessarily less intelligent than you.

-Razor

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AKTI #A000845
And tomorrow when you wake up it will be worse.

[This message has been edited by Razoredj (edited 04-12-2001).]

CPR · Apr 12, 2001

Brian,

You're absolutely correct and have made my point using much better examples. I shouldn't have injected politics into the mix, as both sides have members that would be considered anomalies of their affiliation. I have strong feelings against anti-knife, gun, self-preservation people and in my limited experience liberals have been the stongest opponents of my rights. Sorry to have offended any liberals exercising common sense in the crowd.

Chris

CPR · Apr 12, 2001

Razor,

See my last post.

You stated:

Believe it or not, a person who disagrees with you is not necessarily less intelligent than you.

When and where did I claim you were less intelligent than anyone, or are you stating that you have the superior intellect? Please elaborate. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, a couple of Bradys short of a Bunch, etc.

Back to the subject. I still think this Boker ad is small peanuts compared to, say, global warming...David, I told you I'd test your patience at some point

Chris

Razoredj · Apr 12, 2001

CPR,

I was quoting Brian, whose posts have been, at least in my politically-correct, knee-jerking view, a bit on the snide side. I could be mistaken as to his intent.

-Razor

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AKTI #A000845
And tomorrow when you wake up it will be worse.

CPR · Apr 12, 2001

Sheesh. I didn't get to see all of Brian's post before my last one. See what I mean about my (lack of) intelligence.

Chris

[This message has been edited by CPR (edited 04-12-2001).]

anthony cheeseboro · Apr 12, 2001

What's so liberal about Disney? Do you mean their giving benefits to gay partners? Even Bush has appointed open gays to important positions. Does that mean that Disney is fundamentally different fromany other large corporation? I hate to get off knives, but over the last 30 years, the conservative movement has grown in power in the U.S. in every measurable way be it school boards, courts, governorships, legislatures, presidents etc. Throughout that time there has been a steady erosion of gun and knife rights. True, the most outspoken arms advocates are conservative but by no means are all conservatives pro-arms.

Cosmic Superchunk · Apr 12, 2001

I believe Boker's intent is strickly to add humor to their advertisements, not to offend anyone. I personally dismiss the ads as corny, but I do not find them offensive. However, we all have to realize that we as knife enthusiasts are basically a minority in today's society. Thanks to the breakdown of what was once called a family structure, the media, and bad legislation, we have to contend with the threat of loosing our rights to buy and carry knives. It's a sad reality, but when a violent act occurs, people seem to blame the object more than the person who commited the crime. Therefore, I do agree that discretion must be used when promoting knives. Instead of marketing a knife as "great for an emergency or starting one," why not promote it's life saving abilities or daily utility. Want to see humor on knife ads? Look at the ads for the Kershaw Liner Action used a few year ago.

Safety Guy · Apr 12, 2001

Razor, I think this is a great thread. I can see good points on both sides. I HATE political correctness, and wish to fight it wherever I can. On the other hand, the media and the ignorant (often the same) will use whatever "ammo" we give them to attack us with. Sometimes it might be prudent to be careful what we "give" them.

Question: someone mentioned that CRKT had some similar ads out about one of their knives a while ago. Was this before their troubles with Customs and is it possible that the ad attracted, or helped to attract, the unwanted attention?

If so, this would be an example of what Razor is worried about.

I agree there may be more important things to worry about than "questionable" ad copy. On the other hand, this IS a discussion forum.

So everybody, before we continue, how about a nice GROUP HUG?

Karl

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"Celebrate the diversity of inclusive, self-esteem nurturing, multicultural weapons arts." Karl Spaulding, The Safety Guy

Ron Andersen · Apr 12, 2001

Hi Karl,

Between your comment, "Sometimes it might be prudent to be careful what we 'give' them" and your screen name "Safety Guy," I just had to

. If only the sheeple could some days look in my car as I'm driving home from work on the freeway "playing" with my latest "toy" in one hand with my other hand on the steering wheel! No, it's not smart. No, I'm not proud of it. No, I don't recommend it. And YES, it is fun! Don't we all have a bit of a "dark side" with our knives? It's best to not advertise it. I think many knife enthusiasts privately think some off-beat knife humor is great. I just use discretion and not wave the knife in the car so other people can see it.

You're right...this is a great thread.

Ron

Kenshi · Apr 12, 2001

Originally posted by rockspyder:
What I see from this entire thread is, with the exception of a few people, the ones who would ban knives have had their way with the minds of the knife knuts. They not only have already legislated many assinine laws regarding sharp tools, they have succeeded in controlling the thinking of even knife knuts on the subject of knives. You guys are so wrapped around what the sheeple will think that you can't even have a laugh.

Freedom requires responsibility. Which means thinking about the consequences of one's actions before taking them.

Who sits on juries in class action lawsuits against the gunmakers? More sheeple than non-sheeple.

Who would sit on juries in class action suits against knifemakers if they ever were to come? More sheeple than non-sheeple.

Who would sit on the jury, were any of us to be put on trial for using a blade to protect ourselves? More sheeple than non-sheeple. Why give the prosecutor the opportunity do this: "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, the defendant is a dangerous man with a dangerous Rambo fantasy. He was carrying a dangerous weapon. Exhibit 1 (the knife) is not just a simple pocketknife--it is designed for one thing--killing people. How do we know this? Because even the manufacturer says so (shows a 4 foot blowup of the ad)." The jury looks at the ad, gasps, and you better hope there is one right-thinking knife owner on the panel. Otherwise you are going down. Sad fact of life in the big (or little) city.

I don't carry dangerous weapons, I carry nice, well-made, nondescript edged tools. That can spill lots of blood. I just don't advertise things that way.

Razoredj · Apr 12, 2001

posted by Safety Guy:
Question: someone mentioned that CRKT had some similar ads out about one of their knives a while ago. Was this before their troubles with Customs and is it possible that the ad attracted, or helped to attract, the unwanted attention?

The ads were labeled, "Social Security," but the title is all I remember. Just the title implies to me "self defense implement," and I have no problem with that at all. I think self-defense is every human being's inalienable right. Anyone who has a problem with an ad that advocates lawful self-defense is, I think, engaging in hysterical, politically-correct censorship of the worst kind. But again (and again and again), that's very different from advocating illegal behavior.

-Razor

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AKTI #A000845
And tomorrow when you wake up it will be worse.

Keith Montgomery · Apr 12, 2001

Further as to my previous post, I was contacted by Boker in answer to my email to them. What I was told was that in trying to gain market share they were trying to make sure that their ads would stick in peoples minds. What they wanted was a humorous ad that people would remember. They also informed me that the advertising department has been told not to run that ad anymore.

Boker seems to be a company that takes seriously the concerns of it's customers.

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Keith

AKTI Member #A001338

dogboye · Apr 12, 2001

Originally posted by Keith Montgomery:
Further as to my previous post, I was contacted by Boker in answer to my email to them. What I was told was that in trying to gain market share they were trying to make sure that their ads would stick in peoples minds. What they wanted was a humorous ad that people would remember. They also informed me that the advertising department has been told not to run that ad anymore.

Boker seems to be a company that takes seriously the concerns of it's customers.

Well, I guess that puts an end to this thread! Even Boker perceives a problem with that ad. Oh well.

Kenshi, good points all. But, I still stand by my statement that you quote. I also recognize that I'm guilty of acting that same way in a lot of instances. But, that doesn't mean that I have to.

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The most affectionate creature in the world is a wet dog. - Ambrose Bierce
Most dog owners are at length able to teach themselves to obey their dog. - Robert Morley

iktomi

Razoredj · Apr 12, 2001

They also informed me that the advertising department has been told not to run that ad anymore.

Did they mention if this decision was in response to other e-mails and complaints? I'm wondering if they got wind of the thread here, the ad was already being questioned, or they decided on their own it was problematic.

-Razor

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AKTI #A000845
And tomorrow when you wake up it will be worse.