Dishonest description of condition or omission of damage

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jaytaylor

Jaytaylor

Feedback: +12 / =0 / -0
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
1,720
Not sure what it is with this forum sales board but I'm sick and tired of the numerous dishonest sellers.

Of the very few transactions I've made on this forum I've been burnt 3 times now on items being described as brand new, like new, new & never been carried.

The last one was the worst, I PM'ed and asked what is the condition of the items as the photos were so poor to which the seller PM'ed me the items are new.

Well.....what I got was disgustingly filthy, heavily worn , full of dents, scratches, chips, scuffs, bits falling off and partly chemical eaten. They were beyond beater condition.....was the seller blind? I would have thought it was a joke if I personally knew the seller.

Came out with some lame excuse about I got them in trade and didn't really look at them...pathetic excuse for dishonesty. I'm waiting on a refund on that one otherwise I'm going to town on them.......

My first Hinderer XM-18....."never been carried"......it was in worse condition than the XM-18 a friend had EDC'ed for almost every day for more than a year......

I'm not going to name names yet as I'm giving one party the chance to put it right although it does not excuse his lousy practice.

There is far too much of the liberal and dishonest use of new/mint on items which are far from new.

Anyone else getting that same here?

There really needs to be some definition to the selling rules w.r.t. the condition of items.

The worst offender I purchased from is still selling beater items and not disclosing condition or stating new when the poor photos he uses can sometimes reveal the items are far from new - it is also amazing that they have no negative feedback......:uncomfortableness:
 
Last edited:
I think requiring detailed photos and proof the seller has the knife would cut down on some of the problems. Decent point and shoot cameras are $100 or less and are more than adequate for showing details on a knife.
 
I haven't had those kind of experiences but I believe that buying in this setting definitely requires a "buyer beware" approach. If the listing isn't clear or if there isn't pictures, I will ask questions and insist on clear answers as to what the item is and its condition so I have some kind of record of the buyer describing the item. If the item isn't as described then you have some justification for a refund. And unfortunately, I think if the seller does not have a a lot of feedback or at least been around here for more than six months and couple hundred posts, you're entering a high risk transaction.
 
The worst offender for me has almost 20 positive feedback, 400 posts and sells mainly high end knives $500-$1500.

He is the person I'm referring too with this -

"The last one was the worst, I PM'ed and asked what is the condition of the items as the photos were so poor to which the seller PM'ed me the items are new.

Well.....what I got was disgustingly filthy, heavily worn , full of dents, scratches, chips, scuffs, bits falling off and partly chemical eaten. They were beyond beater condition.....was the seller blind? I would have thought it was a joke if I personally knew the seller.

Came out with some lame excuse about I got them in trade and didn't really look at them...pathetic excuse for dishonesty. I'm waiting on a refund on that one otherwise I'm going to town on them......."

And the Hinderer transaction, the seller has 500 posts, 50 + feedback and frequently buys / sells Hinderer here but still managed to sell me second hand used tat for brand new top premium.
 
We need to know who these people are. There is also the iTrader feedback system that you are supposed to use.
 
I won't even give a second look to anyone's ad who even remotely gives the impression that they may be trying to hide something. This includes no photos, bad photos, and a vague description of the item. I don't even waste my time emailing them for more information. The lack of detail can be an indicator of how they conduct business.

I don't need or want anything that badly.
 
I agree, definitely post their names. I've never had anything but good experiences with people I have either bought from or traded on bladeforums. Even on on another forum, I had a good trade experience, though on still another forum I got ripped off for $45 by a guy claiming to have a CRKT First Strike tanto I wanted, never saw that knife, and never will. His name is Max Martinez out of California and his e-mail is, or was:

maxdasjames@gmail.com

A thief if there ever was one.

I think if someone describes a knife as like new, or something along those lines and the knife is in worse condition than a beater, he is trying to rip you off in one way or another.

Hate to have to say this, but sh** happens.... or is more often created.....
 
Even if there are clear definitions of what constitutes certain levels of wear/condition on a knife there is no way that everyone will always have the same understanding, even forgetting those who may be intentionally dishonest. Your "LNIB" is someone else's "mint" is someone else's "85%." If the photos are so lousy that you can't make a reasonable call on condition then ask for better ones. If a seller isn't willing to do that for you then move on.
 
jujigatame said:
Even if there are clear definitions of what constitutes certain levels of wear/condition on a knife there is no way that everyone will always have the same understanding, even forgetting those who may be intentionally dishonest. Your "LNIB" is someone else's "mint" is someone else's "85%." If the photos are so lousy that you can't make a reasonable call on condition then ask for better ones. If a seller isn't willing to do that for you then move on.
Click to expand...

Mmm, I slightly disagree. If you see bad pictures, and the person cannot or refuses to provide better pictures there is no reason to even take a chance. Common sense should dictate most of this. If you've had a knife in your pocket, and used it, it sure as hell isn't "mint". I tend to stay clear of those buyers. I sure wish we had a mandatory rule to post clear pictures of the actual item for sale or trade. It would help clear a lot of this up once and for all. There is no reason why someone cannot take and post a clear pcture of a knife or any other piece of gear they want to sell. Practically every phone nowadays has a built in camera, they come with USB cords, and Photobucket is still free last time I checked.

It bears repeating.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/entry.php/90-How-To-Trade-Knives-and-Gear-Successfully

Rules Link:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=746&a=98

SECTION 2 - Rules/Procedures for Selling, Buying, Trading, & Offering Services:
The implementation of common sense is strongly encouraged beyond this point. This applies directly to the persons involved in the transactions.

Sellers/Selling -
Be 100% sure that you want to sell the item, have it in your possession and clearly list the selling price. There is no "testing the waters" or "gauge buyer interest".
Activate/Enable your ability to receive email and private messaging, from members, moderators, and administrators; you must display your correct membership level.
Be honest and provide an accurate & detailed description of the item. Don't forget to mention defects, blemishes, new, used, or other problems. When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions.
Provide as many photos as possible, in the best lighting possible. It's always nice for buyers to see what they are going to get.
Be specific with all details of payment. There is no eBay style auctioning allowed. If you want to entertain trade offers, say so in your sales thread (For Sale Or Trade); it is allowed.
If you have a Gold or higher membership you may list currently active threads in your signature. Please, no giant billboards and no links to eBay.
Consolidate your threads. If you have multiple knives to sell, post them in a single thread. Or you can do different threads on different days. You are only allowed 1 sales thread, per day, per forum. Let's keep it fair for everyone.
You must wait 14 days (2 weeks) to relist an item.


Buyers/Buying -
Be 100% sure that you can financially afford to purchase the item before offering to do so. If you cannot commit 100% to buying the item. Be responsible and use your best judgement.
Ask questions before the deal is agreed upon, make sure you want the item being sold and that the price is affordable to you.
Be prompt with your payment. The seller has the right to determine how they want payment and if they will work with you.
Provide an accurate shipping address. Make sure the seller has that shipping address. Open and clear ommunication via email or Private Messaging is encouraged between the parties involved.
Do not post in a person's thread unless you have an implicit interest in buying the item. Posts like, "Nice knife!", "Why is the price so high/low?", "I wish I had funds" are not allowed. This means absolutely no commentary or feedback in someone's sales thread. Seriously, if you stomp on someone's ad, your account can and will be locked. The only exception to this is in the Custom Knife Exchange areas (if the maker/craftsman requests and welcomes feedback)
Malicious Buyers will be permanently banned from the forums. If you have a problem being honest, upfront, and are unable to honor your word then you do not belong here.
If you must back out of a deal, it is YOUR responsibility to communicate with the other person WHY you are unable to complete the transaction. Make sure this happens BEFORE any money or items have been exchanged. Problems should be attempted to be resolved between the persons involved.
Click to expand...
 
I think there should be a rating system. BNIB and LBNIB are super subjective.
Keep it simple, 1 to 5... 1 being absolute crap and 5 being Brand new, never carried, never sharpened, no nicks no dings.
1 to 10 is way too subjective, can you really say it's a 7 and not really a 6?

I present to you the DC rating scale (Ha! I took a little too much liberty perhaps)

5: Brand new never used, never carried, no marks, centered blade, zero blade play and perfect lock up. A perfect factory original including factory original EDGE & or accessories (scales, stand offs, ect)

4: A very good - good condition lightly carried blade, used for very light cutting tasks, no marks anywhere, centered blade, zero blade play in x or y axis, sharp with even bevels from factory or otherwise, modded with or by aftermarket parts but can pass for factory (e.g. sharpening, scales, no blunted tips fixed or otherwise)

3: A user in good - fair condition, may have scratches from sharpening, tip may be blunted or may have been re-tipped. Blade may be off center, there is some up and down or side to side (or both) blade play. Scratched pocket clip, noticeable wear on the scales. No stripped screws

2: A user blade in fair to poor condition with scratches and or gouges to scales and or blade steel, noticeable blade play, may be off center, well worn, may have stripped or missing screws. Still a very restorable blade

1: A poor condition blade you would probably leave in your tool box, not restorable.

Of course you can have a brand new never used blade with blade play from the factory but you will have to disclose any and all imperfections.
Or you can have a perfect user. The numbered rating system is a guide not an absolute (and a simple one at that).
With this system, guys who use their blades for a year can't or wont sell them as BNIB just because they think it "looks clean enough" Or they won't be able to hide imperfections with crappy pictures.

Before you sell a blade here, there should be a check list and if it's anything less than perfect..... Please describe the wear or damage in a couple of words... thats it, no biggie.

Blade: Perfect
Edge: Sharp
Bevels: Even
Scales: No wear marks
Hardware: No stripped or marked screws
Clip: No scratches
Centered: yes
Orig box and papers: yes

Feel free to let me know what you think....
 
This is why I always insist on seeing pictures of any item (regardless of if I'm buying or trading) before I make any kind of 100% decision either way. It's the same reason that I always provide or offer to provide pictures of my items as well.
 
JSMcustoms said:
This is why I always insist on seeing pictures of any item (regardless of if I'm buying or trading) before I make any kind of 100% decision either way. It's the same reason that I always provide or offer to provide pictures of my items as well.
Click to expand...

Good practice! :thumbup:
 
Regardless of how things turn out on your refunds, you should leave the details in the Feedback forum with the person's username in the title. Buyers should be able to search a seller in the feedback forum to see if there have been any "issues" in their past. Even if you get a full refund a feedback post is going to make that seller think twice before selling a catch and release as LNIB without carefully inspecting it (very lame unbelievable excuse).
 
By the second time I'm pretty sure I would have started insisting on high-res photos. Might want to consider that before you get burnt a fourth time. Buyer beware.
 
I've only purchased from 1 person on Bladeforums so far, and it went very smoothly. that being said;
I see shady looking deals on the internet all the time and I choose to avoid them no matter how tempting they look... Never buy without seeing pictures, or getting a clear description from the seller, and NEVER go outside of PayPal to pay.. Also, I never buy from sellers who only accept PayPal-"gift" which, in my opinion, completely defeats the purpose of using PayPal in the first place since you forfeit buyer protection! Following these simple rules, the only thing I've ever lost from dishonest sellers was time.

I hope you get your money back,and make sure leave negative feedback to warn others.. Some buyers are too nice when it comes to situations like that and they chalk it up to an "honest mistake" and leave positive feedback anyway :rolleyes:.. I find it inexcusable.
 
The biggest problem I have had is the description of lockup. More than once I have been told the knife is rock solid, no bladeplay. I know we are generally talking about production folders. But when I am told there is no bladeplay thats what I expect. I always check from the tip of the blade.
 
There are actually very few sellers that post decent pictures of the knife from every angle. Pictures can also hide a helluva lot. The description is the most important thing, which requires HONESTY above all. If the seller has clearly been dishonest, the buyer has every right to demand a full or partial refund. I have done that on a couple of occasions when I felt the description wasn't accurate and the seller's complied on both occasions. The bottom line should be: the deal isn't done until both parties are happy.


Fanglekai said:
I think requiring detailed photos and proof the seller has the knife would cut down on some of the problems. Decent point and shoot cameras are $100 or less and are more than adequate for showing details on a knife.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top