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Dishonest description of condition or omission of damage
- Thread starter Jaytaylor
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Exactly. Chris, you really should refund his shipping to truly make him whole. Also, to maintain your integrity since you did admit to your mistake. And for the fact that you did receive more money from the new buyer, it seems like the right thing to do.
I really dislike hearing about these happenings as one day it may happen to me. I try to go by gut and disregard how much I want that particular piece. Sometimes a Google search might show a posting of the same piece and give me info the seller did not initially disclose. I have a general rule nothing over 300. I rather go thru a dealer.
Well, not to re-open a can of worms.... but I'm the guy that bought the scale. Perhaps I can shed a little light on this.
I questioned Mr. Chris on the condition and even thought I saw a ding. I mentioned the possible ding to him and he disclosed that the scale was "... in great shape though, just not technically mint since it's seen pocket time" He did not mention any dings or scratches.
When I got the scale, I was a little disappointed, but not enough to make an issue out of it. To me the price was worth it, and to me the damage was negligible, and Chris_Himself did offer a refund before hand if I was not completely satisfied. Since I didn't ask for a refund, I am officially satisfied.
I think perhaps the OP was overreacting a tad saying the scale was so thoroughly thrashed (Just my Opinion, no offense meant at all), but on the other hand, the damage should have been, and could have been, openly disclosed in the sales thread. Overall, MY experience was OK... I was getting a CF scale for 25 off list, I lived with a small few marks. But I'm not everyone...
And here are the pictures of it:
Keep in mind, the scratches were quite hard to photograph...
I questioned Mr. Chris on the condition and even thought I saw a ding. I mentioned the possible ding to him and he disclosed that the scale was "... in great shape though, just not technically mint since it's seen pocket time" He did not mention any dings or scratches.
When I got the scale, I was a little disappointed, but not enough to make an issue out of it. To me the price was worth it, and to me the damage was negligible, and Chris_Himself did offer a refund before hand if I was not completely satisfied. Since I didn't ask for a refund, I am officially satisfied.
I think perhaps the OP was overreacting a tad saying the scale was so thoroughly thrashed (Just my Opinion, no offense meant at all), but on the other hand, the damage should have been, and could have been, openly disclosed in the sales thread. Overall, MY experience was OK... I was getting a CF scale for 25 off list, I lived with a small few marks. But I'm not everyone...
And here are the pictures of it:
Keep in mind, the scratches were quite hard to photograph...
After chuka's pictures and comments. Subjective descriptions are tough to work with sometimes, what's good condition might be trash to someone else. I try to leave my opinion good etc. out of descriptions, it either has dings, scratches, chips, nicks, rubbing or it doesn't. In the end chuka "OK" with it. Both buyer and seller need to be diligent and upfront about flaws.
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- Apr 8, 2010
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- 676
Well, not to re-open a can of worms.... but I'm the guy that bought the scale. Perhaps I can shed a little light on this.
I questioned Mr. Chris on the condition and even thought I saw a ding. I mentioned the possible ding to him and he disclosed that the scale was "... in great shape though, just not technically mint since it's seen pocket time" He did not mention any dings or scratches.
When I got the scale, I was a little disappointed, but not enough to make an issue out of it. To me the price was worth it, and to me the damage was negligible, and Chris_Himself did offer a refund before hand if I was not completely satisfied. Since I didn't ask for a refund, I am officially satisfied.
I think perhaps the OP was overreacting a tad saying the scale was so thoroughly thrashed (Just my Opinion, no offense meant at all), but on the other hand, the damage should have been, and could have been, openly disclosed in the sales thread. Overall, MY experience was OK... I was getting a CF scale for 25 off list, I lived with a small few marks. But I'm not everyone...
And here are the pictures of it:
Keep in mind, the scratches were quite hard to photograph...
Well I'm glad it worked out. I'm actually still rather sorry about those scratches. It was also stored WITH the hinderer beads in question so that may have something to do with it.
Both the scale and knife that came with it were not purchased new by me. I didn't do a good job with the original listing and I really owe it to the demographic of people who buy Hinderers to do my due diligence. My apologies to JayTaylor once again and it was a learning experience for me.
Those scratches we're indeed hard to photograph for me as well. I didn't deny that they were there once I got the scale back and this situation came to light but to be honest CF IMO is coarse and it was hard to find those. Thank you for your honesty and taking the time and trouble to post here. I take it that you are satisfied at the end of the day.
Well, not to re-open a can of worms.... but I'm the guy that bought the scale. Perhaps I can shed a little light on this.
I questioned Mr. Chris on the condition and even thought I saw a ding. I mentioned the possible ding to him and he disclosed that the scale was "... in great shape though, just not technically mint since it's seen pocket time" He did not mention any dings or scratches.
When I got the scale, I was a little disappointed, but not enough to make an issue out of it. To me the price was worth it, and to me the damage was negligible, and Chris_Himself did offer a refund before hand if I was not completely satisfied. Since I didn't ask for a refund, I am officially satisfied.
I think perhaps the OP was overreacting a tad saying the scale was so thoroughly thrashed (Just my Opinion, no offense meant at all), but on the other hand, the damage should have been, and could have been, openly disclosed in the sales thread. Overall, MY experience was OK... I was getting a CF scale for 25 off list, I lived with a small few marks. But I'm not everyone...
And here are the pictures of it:
Keep in mind, the scratches were quite hard to photograph...
This was sold to me as NEW......of course I'm going to take issue with it, you should have seen the "NEW" hinderer beads I was sold with it.
That scale has about three dings along the front edge and one chip, it also has several dings to the back edge of the scale, full of scratches and filthy, if you were told it is new, are you telling me you would not take issue?
And listing items with a cell phone camera with poor lighting and out of focus as the sole means of conveying condition is not going to cut it.
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These are some of the items I have sold - Canon G9 with cheap desk lamps and sushi mats.
Very inexpensive.
Highlighting teeth marks in a vintage Waterman.
Highlighting a bleeched spot in the BHR section.
Good clear pics and full disclosure is how I roll and after 12 years of dealing online in various items I've never had an issue with anything I've sold unlike this forum exchange where 50% of my purchases had a dishonest description.
Very inexpensive.
Highlighting teeth marks in a vintage Waterman.
Highlighting a bleeched spot in the BHR section.
Good clear pics and full disclosure is how I roll and after 12 years of dealing online in various items I've never had an issue with anything I've sold unlike this forum exchange where 50% of my purchases had a dishonest description.
I never said I wouldn't take issue, but the scale was not sold to me as new. Pretty sure I outlined my individual case. The fact remains that you are over dramatizing how bad it was. In this case the two small scratches are only visible under certain light and angles, along with the ONE ding... these are the ONLY damages on the scale. The other scratches, dings, etc, that you mention, are no where to be found. Discrediting photos because of an 8MP cell phone camera is a stretch as well. On a decent camera phone, damages can be clearly pictured.
Does that mean you should not have taken issue? No, I never said that. In fact, I think you should have taken issue with the condition of your scale and glad you did. Especially since it was sold to you as new. You, however, stated that I was ripped off as well, which I do not feel was the case. I'm coming in from a purely objective point of view... or trying to at least
Many times these GB&U threads get carried away because of emotion. I'll bust out the SLR soon for some better pics, though they surely won't be as grand and amazing as your stopwatch and fancy pen pictures. And I mean that, they are great pictures!
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- Joined
- Nov 22, 2011
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- 515
I want a Hinderer bad. I've been checking the forums and ebay but I'm hesitant to buy anything because of this exact reason, not confident I'm gonna get what I pay for. I pretty much decided to try and get one from retailer when they come out. I'd rather pay up and be sure to get what I'm trying to get instead of some POS.
The seller obviously has a bad set of ethics....He brags about charging even more for the scales the second time around, in addition to relisting the scales as new. Then comes on this thread and states that he's just following the thread for the entertainment value. Disgraceful...
Totally agree bro, I just thought the actual condition of the scales were somewhere in between "new" and the OP's description.
The scael was certainly not new, but certainly not (his words) "disgustingly filthy, heavily worn , full of dents, scratches, chips, scuffs, bits falling off and partly chemical eaten. They were beyond beater condition....."
That's all I was trying to say. He has every right to be pissed!!!! I would be too.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2010
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- 676
If I wanted to brag, I'd just post any one of the feedbacks I have for selling high profile knives.. here's the last one
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/itrader_detail.php?ir=81404&u=269377
Chuka and Jaytaylor, I apologize for my photography. It's very simple, but it's gotten the job done for me in the past, but I should rely on my eyes more than a camera and I didn't do my due diligence on it. The rest of you dogpiling keep it coming, I just came back from a USN gathering where a couple dozen members knew me by name right away.
Half the people here don't even have the Gold membership..
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- Sep 5, 2006
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They don't need a gold membership, to buy or trade here on the exchange, so that's a non-point, I'm afraid.
I’ve been on here awhile and have bought and sold lots of knives and can honestly say that I’ve only been outright burned once. I say “outright” because it was a situation when I sold a knife and didn’t receive payment. It was when I was relatively new to the forums and didn’t understand the protocol. No biggie as I only lost $35. There’s been a few other times when I didn’t agree with the deal but deferred to the buyer.
I have a camera and take pictures with my ads. I’m a crappy photographer. I admit it. I don’t have a “light box” or any other do dads to make my pictures better. I know how to use the camera in AUTO MODE but that’s about it. I think I’m improving (slightly) in their quality but….
I also try to disclose any and all defects in the knife but I miss things too. Some buyers are super picky. A knife can have a few scratches/rubs/handling marks from just pulling it a few times in and out of a Kydex sheath. Is that NEW? MINT? Or used. I’d sell it as brand new never used.
But all that’s not really important.. I have a simple philosophy. “If you’re not happy, I’m not happy”.
It’s not a new one. I’ve heard it stated here many times by a lot of good people. I think it works.
Take care
Mark T.
I have a camera and take pictures with my ads. I’m a crappy photographer. I admit it. I don’t have a “light box” or any other do dads to make my pictures better. I know how to use the camera in AUTO MODE but that’s about it. I think I’m improving (slightly) in their quality but….
I also try to disclose any and all defects in the knife but I miss things too. Some buyers are super picky. A knife can have a few scratches/rubs/handling marks from just pulling it a few times in and out of a Kydex sheath. Is that NEW? MINT? Or used. I’d sell it as brand new never used.
But all that’s not really important.. I have a simple philosophy. “If you’re not happy, I’m not happy”.
It’s not a new one. I’ve heard it stated here many times by a lot of good people. I think it works.
Take care
Mark T.
When I'm looking at a sale or trade listing, nothing says "red flag" to me like blurry photos. That's telling me that the seller has something to hide. With all the technology available today, there is absolutely NO excuse for not providing clear, vivid photos of what you're selling, including photos of any flaws or defects.
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