Dishonest description of condition or omission of damage

[TomTerrific]

There are actually very few sellers that post decent pictures of the knife from every angle. Pictures can also hide a helluva lot. The description is the most important thing, which requires HONESTY above all. If the seller has clearly been dishonest, the buyer has every right to demand a full or partial refund. I have done that on a couple of occasions when I felt the description wasn't accurate and the seller's complied on both occasions. The bottom line should be: the deal isn't done until both parties are happy.

That can work both ways. I was interested in a couple of knives from a B.F vendor. One I really liked did not look good in the close up photos, they were just too detailed. Knowing the vendor pretty well, I bought it anyway and the things that bothered me in the pic were hardly apparent in the hand. This, of course, is dealing with someone I know and trust.

My 2¢, strictly.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

The worst offender for me has almost 20 positive feedback, 400 posts and sells mainly high end knives $500-$1500.

He is the person I'm referring too with this -

"The last one was the worst, I PM'ed and asked what is the condition of the items as the photos were so poor to which the seller PM'ed me the items are new.

Well.....what I got was disgustingly filthy, heavily worn , full of dents, scratches, chips, scuffs, bits falling off and partly chemical eaten. They were beyond beater condition.....was the seller blind? I would have thought it was a joke if I personally knew the seller.

Came out with some lame excuse about I got them in trade and didn't really look at them...pathetic excuse for dishonesty. I'm waiting on a refund on that one otherwise I'm going to town on them......."

And the Hinderer transaction, the seller has 500 posts, 50 + feedback and frequently buys / sells Hinderer here but still managed to sell me second hand used tat for brand new top premium.

I'd start naming names if both these guys don't make good.

 

[SOC_MRN_Leon]

I think there should be a rating system. BNIB and LBNIB are super subjective.
Keep it simple, 1 to 5... 1 being absolute crap and 5 being Brand new, never carried, never sharpened, no nicks no dings.
1 to 10 is way too subjective, can you really say it's a 7 and not really a 6?

I present to you the DC rating scale (Ha! I took a little too much liberty perhaps)

5: Brand new never used, never carried, no marks, centered blade, zero blade play and perfect lock up. A perfect factory original including factory original EDGE & or accessories (scales, stand offs, ect)

4: A very good - good condition lightly carried blade, used for very light cutting tasks, no marks anywhere, centered blade, zero blade play in x or y axis, sharp with even bevels from factory or otherwise, modded with or by aftermarket parts but can pass for factory (e.g. sharpening, scales, no blunted tips fixed or otherwise)

3: A user in good - fair condition, may have scratches from sharpening, tip may be blunted or may have been re-tipped. Blade may be off center, there is some up and down or side to side (or both) blade play. Scratched pocket clip, noticeable wear on the scales. No stripped screws

2: A user blade in fair to poor condition with scratches and or gouges to scales and or blade steel, noticeable blade play, may be off center, well worn, may have stripped or missing screws. Still a very restorable blade

1: A poor condition blade you would probably leave in your tool box, not restorable.

Of course you can have a brand new never used blade with blade play from the factory but you will have to disclose any and all imperfections.
Or you can have a perfect user. The numbered rating system is a guide not an absolute (and a simple one at that).
With this system, guys who use their blades for a year can't or wont sell them as BNIB just because they think it "looks clean enough" Or they won't be able to hide imperfections with crappy pictures.

Before you sell a blade here, there should be a check list and if it's anything less than perfect..... Please describe the wear or damage in a couple of words... thats it, no biggie.

Blade: Perfect
Edge: Sharp
Bevels: Even
Scales: No wear marks
Hardware: No stripped or marked screws
Clip: No scratches
Centered: yes
Orig box and papers: yes

Feel free to let me know what you think....

I agree with this 100%! Im going to start going by this! Very clear!

 

[Fanglekai]

There are actually very few sellers that post decent pictures of the knife from every angle. Pictures can also hide a helluva lot. The description is the most important thing, which requires HONESTY above all. If the seller has clearly been dishonest, the buyer has every right to demand a full or partial refund. I have done that on a couple of occasions when I felt the description wasn't accurate and the seller's complied on both occasions. The bottom line should be: the deal isn't done until both parties are happy.

The rules should be changed and pictures from at least 4 standard views made mandatory. Left right top bottom. Pictures would at least help show major problems. Hosting from sugarsync, dropbox, 4shared, imgur, photo bucket, mediafire, and more sites is free. More info is better.

 

[dinokay]

I feel there should be a way to leave proper feedback without retaliatory feedback. The only reason someone dishonest would have 50 positive feedbacks with no negative is because most people are scared of retaliatory negative feedback.

 

[ooitzoo]

I feel there should be a way to leave proper feedback without retaliatory feedback. The only reason someone dishonest would have 50 positive feedbacks with no negative is because most people are scared of retaliatory negative feedback.

On a trade I agree.

On a sale, however, it's been made clear that the buyer can ask that any negative be removed (provided he actually made payment).

 

[Jaytaylor]

I'd start naming names if both these guys don't make good.

"The last one was the worst, I PM'ed and asked what is the condition of the items as the photos were so poor to which the seller PM'ed me the items are new.

Well.....what I got was disgustingly filthy, heavily worn , full of dents, scratches, chips, scuffs, bits falling off and partly chemical eaten. They were beyond beater condition.....was the seller blind? I would have thought it was a joke if I personally knew the seller.

Came out with some lame excuse about I got them in trade and didn't really look at them...pathetic excuse for dishonesty. I'm waiting on a refund on that one otherwise I'm going to town on them......."

= Chris_Himself

And the Hinderer transaction, the seller has 500 posts, 50 + feedback and frequently buys / sells Hinderer here but still managed to sell me second hand used tat for brand new top premium.

= jjjeschke

I must add that jjjeschke did refund me to bring the XM inline with its condition....I was still not happy as I wanted a mint XM for my first and passed on many used XM's to find a new one.....(or as claimed and he really should know better based on the shear number of XM he trades/sells)

 

[김원진]

good to hear you got some kind of refund back, sucks you got dragged around though. it is interesting to see that jjeschke guy selling a ton of hinderers but you never see him around the hinderer forum. hopefully you got a reasonable refund back.

I wish sellers would be a little more honest or at least do a little inspection. taking a decent picture isn't rocket science either. I've had rust and poorly resharpened sales that weren't mentioned :/

 

[PitbullShogun]

with newer members i find the only real way of playing it safe on all accounts, is having them ship first. that way, if all else, you can inspect the item. i have noticed that generaly speaking, honest newcommers have no issues shipping first as long as your feedback is good. i tend to notice that most of the time, the rotten eggs (the ones who get banned) are the ones who refuse to ship first.

on a side note, ive also noticed that you can usually get away with selling an item at LNIB and Lightly used, at around the same price. the thing is that people will buy them, its just that they expect the item to be in the condition that its described in. although ive never heard of anyone being dissapointed by a knife being in better condition then described

theres no shame in marking a lightly used item as used, or NIB as LNIB, if your unsure of what condition it is in. your reputation is never going to be worth five dollars. and if it is, then we dont need you on this forum.

 

[Jaytaylor]

Bads news.

Chris_Himself just sold the Hinderer smooth carbon fiber scale that I returned to him.

Again failing to mention the condition. He sold it to me under the condition of "new"

Here is the full disclosure on this dishonest seller.

That particular scale is filthy, scratched up with some fairy deep scratches, has several dings along the back edge close to the lanyard hole, it has a row of dings along the front edge with one ding resulting in a chip.

None of this was mentioned in the sale post which was posted this morning - unlucky for someone.

 

[jill jackson]

I've had the same sort of thing happen to me a few times here. I really hate to even trade anymore, as it seems to be getting worse. (especially on trades)

The last time the trade did have pictures and after I received it, I could clearly see that they were taken to hide, nicks in the handle and edge damage. The guy even stated the lock up was solid (it wasn't) blade was centered, (yeah when the pivot was loose it was) I should have made the guy reverse the deal, but I just wrote it off as a learning experience. Plus someone to never deal with again.

 

[김원진]

For Chris_Himself it was curious that i was first to ask the size, and then multiple people sent some requests and i'll take its, but never replied, and was online on the forum for quite some time. Now it's sold to another forum :/ good luck to them.

 

[Jaytaylor]

For Chris_Himself it was curious that i was first to ask the size, and then multiple people sent some requests and i'll take its, but never replied, and was online on the forum for quite some time. Now it's sold to another forum :/ good luck to them.

Lucky that you dodged that one, that scale really is a POS.

Now, about that 3" carbon you WANT to sell me....

 

[braillediver]

I opened a thread like this 2 months ago and was dragged through the coals. I sold a knife with full disclosure and the buyer resold it omitting information about modifications to the sheath that I informed him of. The Buyer refurbished the knife then posted nice photos of a shiny refurbished knife hiding the modifications to the sheath and ommiting the fact the knife was sharpened and refurbished.

The attitude was Caveat Emptor and I was messed up for being concerned about fraud through ommision of the facts.


Thankfully I flagged all the Nay Sayers and won't do business with those ethically challenged individuals.

Mitch

 

[Chris_Himself]

I sold it on the USN, I'm pretty sure the pictures I took of it were straight on which would reveal such "severe" blemishes.

You got your refund, you can either leave me a negative feedback, keep posting, or try to convince people that I am a bad trader when I have thousands of dollars worth of knives going in/out without a single complaint other than this one.

I already admitted to you that I failed to inspect the goods before mailing it back, I did not hesitate to pay you back, and hell, I even lost the beads so thats karma coming around to get me for not doublechecking stuff I was selling.

I'm sorry for the time and shipping money that this cost you, but it was an honest mistake. I try my absolute best to do good business on this and the other forums I participate on. If you have anything else to say, you can PM me or I would invite you to a phone conversation to try to smooth things over.

In regards to me not responding to the "I'll take it's", I check my other forums first and sell to those I would like to sell to. The buyer "Chuka" was invited to return the scale if he ever came across problems, he has my personal cell # to call if anything goes wrong.

Go look at my started threads on USN, BF, and JD. Look at the type of things I sell, if I were out to get somebody, it would not be over a measly scale. It was an accident and heck, I even forgot to relist it for sale for weeks until today because I had other things going on.

 

[Chris_Himself]

Here are some new pics before I mail it out today. Pretty sure if it was a POS, it'd show on an 8MP phone camera. It has some dirt on the underside, which was clearly depicted in the pictures I had on the listing which are still up.

If you got anything else to say have at it.

 

[richard thurman]

to juge some just one feed back rating is bull. I just did my first buy here on the forms. the seller did a very good job. I only have 1 feed back so I am a risky person to deal with?? I think you need to look at what he is selling and all of his posting.

 

[richard thurman]

I sold it on the USN, I'm pretty sure the pictures I took of it were straight on which would reveal such "severe" blemishes.

You got your refund, you can either leave me a negative feedback, keep posting, or try to convince people that I am a bad trader when I have thousands of dollars worth of knives going in/out without a single complaint other than this one.

I already admitted to you that I failed to inspect the goods before mailing it back, I did not hesitate to pay you back, and hell, I even lost the beads so thats karma coming around to get me for not doublechecking stuff I was selling.

I'm sorry for the time and shipping money that this cost you, but it was an honest mistake. I try my absolute best to do good business on this and the other forums I participate on. If you have anything else to say, you can PM me or I would invite you to a phone conversation to try to smooth things over.

In regards to me not responding to the "I'll take it's", I check my other forums first and sell to those I would like to sell to. The buyer "Chuka" was invited to return the scale if he ever came across problems, he has my personal cell # to call if anything goes wrong.

Go look at my started threads on USN, BF, and JD. Look at the type of things I sell, if I were out to get somebody, it would not be over a measly scale. It was an accident and heck, I even forgot to relist it for sale for weeks until today because I had other things going on.

if you got all these knifes for sale then are you a dealer with a gold membership?? if so I think you are dead wrong.

 

[Chris_Himself]

if you got all these knifes for sale then are you a dealer with a gold membership?? if so I think you are dead wrong.

Nope, a mod can check my PM's as well as cross examine my activity on the other forums. I very much am a knife collector just like everybody else. I just deal in higher profile trades than this 99% of the time and all of those have gone well and I have built some serious friendships that were based on my ability to communicate and deliver. I admit I fell short on my end of the deal with JayTaylor and I will own up to that. It was one time thing, he was made whole, and I'm honestly here for my own entertainment at this point.

 

[MDQBox]

Maybe create a "Wall of Shame" section listing names or some kind of BB list of sellers who conduct "poor" business practices.