Do not sell to PWET

[Striderco]

If the seller clearly stated he wasnt responsible if the buyer didnt want to pay for insurance then sorry frenchy! Go get yourself a nice Opinel!

 

[Karda]

from: cckw@cox.net
to: louis.hezard@hotmail.fr
subject: Re: S90v para, shipping
date: Sat, 8 jan 2011 22:35:52 -0600

priority does have insurance. Are you familiar with the tax on buying outside your country. Most europeans do not want to pay that so have a value of like $40. The first $100 is included in the postage after that is is like $1.30 per $100 of value. I can do either way it is up to you because it is your savings vs. Risk.

Paypal is cckw@cox.net the name on the account is jennifer allen

curtis

----- original message -----
from: Louis hezard
to: cckw@cox.net
sent: Saturday, january 08, 2011 7:59 pm
subject: Re: S90v para, shipping

awesome !

Is there any insurance on the priority mail ???? If so i'll go with that.

Can i have your paypal adress please?



Thank you very much,

best regards, louis hezard.

What i'm seeing here is that you chose the priority shipping method as long as it had $100 insurance coverage.
But you chose it at your own risk and responsibility. More insurance was offered.

 

[RevDevil]

If you sell an item it is your responsibility to get it to the buyer. If something happens it is the responsibility of the seller to refund the money to the buyer. That is the way I have always worked things here, and how I have always seen things done. If the seller wants no risk then sell to somebody in person.

That is how I will always see these issues- if the buyer is proven to have not received his package then his funds are replaced- no exceptions, regardless of how many emails get to them. The cost if insurance is to protect the shipper from taking a double hit if anything goes wrong.

The risks of doing business here.

I'm not taking any sides in this thread, just replying:

1 - The buyer you should pay the additional costs of shipping an item in such a way that affords protection for both parties (Global Priority?).
2 - It is also the respobsibility of the buyer to pony up any additional taxes charged by your customs (don't ask the seller to lie/misrepresent on a customs form). If the buyer insists on a "gift", by saving that money you'd have been taxed, should the buyer also forfeit their claim to cry foul should something go wrong? Kind of hard to have your cake and eat it too.
3 - Another responsibility of the buyer is to know to some degree the laws regarding what you are trying to purchase. If you know it's not getting through customs if they see it, why is that the sellers fault?

If the buyer does not receive his item, the first thing they need to do is contact their local customs office and make a formal inquiry. The seller should do their due diligence by checking that the package made it's way out of the US in one piece. Not sure what else can be done after that. I do not think that any seller should absolve himself of any responsibility, rather accept the responsibility that corresponds to what is within your domain and ability to control.

 

[pwet]

What i'm seeing here is that you chose the priority shipping method as long as it had $100 insurance coverage.
But you chose it at your own risk and responsibility. More insurance was offered.

you are right, i chose priority with 100$ insurance, that's why he denies that, very honest, that's also why i never saw any insurance ... that's because i didn't chose fully insured expressmail.

another thing to take in account for chosing priority is who delivers it in france. priority = la poste, government business, decent service, slow but decent. expressmail = chronopost fast service but private company i've alway had problems with.

i could still have chosen to pay more for priority insurance but from what i understood he was wrong regarding that too and it's not insured to france and i'd be in the same situation ...


but i'm wrong that's sure.

 

[cnas122]

I don't want to to continue to discuss this. I have been for too long already. How any of you choose to deal with either of us in the future is up to you. I am done on this one.

A couple things...

1) Why don't you want to continue to discuss this?? And you're "done with this one". You're the one who started a new thread when there was already one that is pages long in GBU
2) I don't see why you use large red font. It's annoying and does not help to get your point across
3) Why did you start a new thread? Why didn't you just address these concerns in the buyer's thread.

 

[richard j]

i just called my post office and asked if a small flat rate box comes with $100. insurance. they said it does and you can add more insurance and like the part of the email karda found, cckw offered him a chance to go with more but he did not choose to. (maybe he did not want to pay the "full ammount of tax" so he went with the cheaper insurance option)

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

i just called my post office and asked if a small flat rate box comes with $100. insurance. they said it does and you can add more insurance and like the part of the email karda found, cckw offered him a chance to go with more but he did not choose to. (maybe he did not want to pay the "full ammount of tax" so he went with the cheaper insurance option)

Then it sounds to me like cckw owes pwet a $100 refund.

 

[jbmonkey]

Kind of hard to have your cake and eat it too.

the saying is actually the other way around, but got warped over all these years. it's can't eat your cake and have it too. see it's easy to have your cake and then eat it too, but it's impossible to eat your cake and then have it too. so the original saying was the other way and it made sense that way....although you've kinda made it into a do both at the same time, spin on it. not bad, for chaning it up and making sense still out of the original parameters. sorry to nitpick, and sidetrack the discussion.....

 

[richardallen]

[...]Europeans pay a ton of tax, the import tax can be half the value of an item. Wanting to avoid that is natural, I would. I will continue to sell to Europeans and continue to give them low customs if that is what they want, unless that is illegal of course, then I wont European buyers know it is their savings and their risk. This guy is just not letting that be the case. But I am not holding it against the rest of Europe.
[...]]

Honestly, that's nice of you to keep selling to Europeans.

Underdeclaring the value is not illegal for you to do, but at least where I am from [Germany] it is illegal not to pay taxes. And if a package slips through because it's underdeclared, it is my duty to go to the customs office and pay my taxes. If I dont, I am commiting a crime. I doubt it's any different in any other country. Usually, governments are keen on receiving their due money (taxes)

If I were you, I would a) always ship insured, no matter what and where to and b) always declare the correct value even if the buyer doesn't like it. Unless you want to encourage criminal behaviour, of course. Declaring the correct value makes dealing with insurance more pleasant for everyone, too, in case something gets lost.

 

[richard j]

if he can get the post office to pay up. i have read many stories about knives being stolen and the post office not paying up for some reason or another.

 

[The Deacon]

As I said in the other thread, I think there's at least some responsibility on both sides here.

cckw gave pwet bad information by telling him the package would be automatically insured for $100. However, he also gave pwet the opportunity to pay for more insurance. If pwet had elected to do that, cckw would have found out there was no insurance available for PMI to France, at least not on flat rate boxes. Instead he chose to accept the $100 limit to save money, so cckw did not discover the error, which he would have if he'd attempted to purchase insurance for it.

To me $100 is all pwet should be entitled to recover, but he should be entitled to recover that.

 

[mqqn]

Hi richard -

To be clear, the small flat-rate priority boxes and envelopes are NOT included in the automatic $100 insurance to France. The rates and insurance "extras" info reads like IRS code on the USPS web site. I guess that is not surprising.

If, however, you use a medium priority mail box and send your item to France, you ARE insured for $100 and you can buy more in increments up to $2500 as I read the fine print.

You also can box the item yourself, and get the $100 insurance.

I am very interested in this subject as I will be sending out quite a few packages overseas with knives in them quite soon, and I will make sure each package is insured before I mail them out.

I agree with The Deacon on this thread and the matter involved - it surely appears that the OP owes the buyer the $100 as promised.

I can understand the confusion regarding what is insured and what is not, based on how the USPS web site is arranged.

Here is the link to pricing/insurance info for priority mail packages -
http://pe.usps.com/text/Imm/fh_005.htm#ep1162625

And then here is the fine print, for which I don't see a link or direct way to navigate from the above pricing page, but here it is -
http://pe.usps.com/text/Imm/immc3_007.htm#ep320450

And you can see that they state (as Jaxx pointed out, thank you) that Priority Mail envelopes and small flat rate boxes are NOT insured.

323.2 Availability
Insurance is available only for Priority Mail International parcels and only to certain countries. See Individual Country Listings. Insurance is not available the Priority Mail International Flat Rate Envelopes or Small Flat Rate Priced Boxes.

232.71 Indemnity

Ordinary — i.e., uninsured — Priority Mail International parcels, except Small Flat Rate Priced Boxes, include indemnity coverage against loss, damage, or missing contents up to the amounts shown in Exhibit 232.73.

I also find this concerning in the same page as the above is quoted from -

232.72 Exclusions

Ordinary indemnity coverage is not paid for the following:

Parcels containing coins; banknotes; currency notes, including paper money; securities of any kind payable to the bearer; traveler’s checks; platinum, gold, and silver; precious stones; jewelry; watches; and other valuable articles.

Seems like with this bit of weasel-wording, they could deny coverage for just about anything, but I am no expert.....

Unfortunate for both ends of the transaction.

best regards -

mqqn

 

[pwet]

so if i understand correctly what you quote, sending to France isn't the problem here right ? priority small flat rate boxes and envellopes are not insured for any international destination ? if so, it makes a little bit more sense to me.

thanks for clarifying that anyway.

 

[TUF]

This guy is in France I am in the US. I sold him a knife in January. He opted for cheapest postage and low customs value. I shipped and gave tracking to him. the package was lost within the postal service and there is no dispute that is what happened. I have probably 20 hours working on this, on the phone (hold or talking) or going to the post office in person. I even met with the operations manger at the main PO in Omaha. As of Aug 22 I am still being harassed by this guy wanting me to take the hit instead of him.

I had gotten somewhere in the range of 100 e-mails from him before blocking his e-mail address. He got a moderator involved who checked my stuff and OK'ed my action (but advised express mail and insurance on all future international transactions) Then PWET gave neg feed back, now today started a badmouth thread about me.

This could be you to if you sell to him.

Did he pay you? Were the funds bad or something? If not I don't blame him for wanting his money back if he did not receive the knife he paid for.

After eight months and you blocking his email did he really have any other option than to start a thread?