Careful with what you say.
You can be tarred and feathered for speaking against Richard. His followers have attained cult status and don't tolerate non-believers.
What ever you do, don't disrupt the magical powers! ROTFL!
Stitchawl
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
dont touch that factory edge !!!!
- Thread starter richard j
- Start date
Careful with what you say.
You can be tarred and feathered for speaking against Richard. His followers have attained cult status and don't tolerate non-believers.
What ever you do, don't disrupt the magical powers! ROTFL!
Stitchawl
It really is difficult to be polite when I see posts like this...
Richard, there are young children out there who may actually believe you. It's time to be more responsible.
Stitchawl
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 3,311
Apparently you don't. There are no "magic knives" but there are excellent blade smiths. Richard J is one of them. If he told me he made a blade that can chop through re-bar I'd believe him. Listen to what he says and maybe you will learn something.
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2009
- Messages
- 3,094
"paper wheels are better than everything"
"Polished edges are what I call a wire edge and they will roll"
"400 grit is the highest grit anyone should go"
I've learned enough.
Honestly, I hate saying anything bad about Richard, because he really does go out of his way to help people, but I honestly can't just sit by and agree with everything as gospel.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 3,311
The man can give you advice w/o it being gospel. The fact is Richard has been doing what he does for longer than some of us have been alive. There are hundreds of threads on here about sharpening, edge retention, edge angles etc. etc. Richard is only offering his two cents, take it or leave it.Careful with what you say.
You can be tarred and feathered for speaking against Richard. His followers have attained cult status and don't tolerate non-believers.
What ever you do, don't disrupt the magical powers! ROTFL!
Stitchawl
Stitch he didn't say what kinda I'd tree it was. Balsa or poplar I presume?
Perhaps it was a 'directory tree' That would be about the only kind that would still leave a shaving edge!
Stitchawl
I'm sure Richard can put an excellent edge on a knife. He has told us that he can many, many times. And I know that he sharpens knives for people who can't sharpen their own. They are impressed with his edges. Perhaps when they learn how to sharpen, they will be impressed with their own edges too. After all, sharp is sharp. There really is NO magical sharp.
I have no doubt that you do. We had one fellow here a couple of years ago who claimed that he could sharpen a knife so well it would cut through glass. There were folks who believed him too.
I'm always happy to learn. But I want to learn correct information. But when someone tries to tell us that;
paper wheels are better than everything
Polished edges are what I call a wire edge and they will roll or...
400 grit is the highest grit anyone should go...
Sorry. I've learned that this is simply not true. I've learned it through trial and error. While there are some blades that I will only take to 400 grit, there are others that I like to bring to .5 micron or sharper. While paper wheels do work, and work quickly, they simply don't bring a knife's edge to the place where I am satisfied. I'm sure Richard is satisfied. I'm sure you are satisfied. But I want something sharper.
Stitchawl
The fact is, not all of us are 20 years old. Some of us have been sharpening longer than Richard. Personally, I learned to put a shaving edge on a knife 54 years ago. (Well, truth be told, I didn't have anything to shave at that age, but my edges would easily cut sole leather for shoes. It was a shoemaker who taught me to sharpen.)
54 years of sharpening. Not the 38 years that Richard talks about. 54 years of trying virtually every sharpening system that came on the market... yes, including paper wheels. I know what works for me and what doesn't. I know what angles I want on a certain knife, and what angles I want on other knives.
I'm not the only older person in this forum either. There are quite a few here who've been sharpening just as long a Richard, and can put an edge on a knife just as well as he can. We know... (KNOW) that there is no magic to sharpening. We know... (KNOW) that anyone who practices and pays attention can get edges just as sharp as we do. We also know that you can't chop down a tree with a knife and still use that edge to push-cut paper. WE KNOW THAT.
Richard is a very capable sharpener. He can put a good edge on a knife, he is willing to sharpen knives for others, to assist others to learn how to sharpen, donates his time to the uniformed services, etc., etc., etc. We know that he can sharpen a knife. We know that when you grow up, if you practice, you too will be able to sharpen a knife. All it takes is practice. All that takes is time.
We've put the time in already.
Stitchawl
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2010
- Messages
- 3,311
I have seen Busse and Kin chop through trees and worse, still maintaining a shaving edge. Quite a few vids on youtube when the Gladius came out showing as much. Ask Samael about what Randell knives can do. Horton is another that will take an unbelievable amount of abuse while keeping a crazy edge.
After reading and seeing what a proper heat treat can do, I know the kind of edge retention Richard describes is not only possible, it's been done before.
After reading and seeing what a proper heat treat can do, I know the kind of edge retention Richard describes is not only possible, it's been done before.
Yes... I'm sure you have. Videos, right?
No need to ask anyone. I used my first Randall (note the spelling) in Vietnam during the war. That one wasn't a custom one. It was what Bo Randall was producing for use, Model 1 with a 7" blade. That was in '67.
I bought my first 'custom' Randall in 1976. A Model 5 'Camp and Trail, with a 6" blade and Sambar stag handle, cut left handed. Great knives. They can really hold an edge.
But you can't cut down a tree and then push cut paper with a Randall either.
Let us know when you see it with your own eyes.
Stitchawl
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2007
- Messages
- 1,530
Remember Stichawl age does not equal wisdom or maturity.
Perhaps that's why I don't tell other how to sharpen? My way works for me. If you want to use it, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too. But this thread began with "DO NOT CHANGE YOUR FACTORY ANGLES!" That wasn't ME telling people what to do or what's best for them.
No worries, mate! At least you can always have someone else sharpen your knives for you. :thumbup:
OK... go ahead. Use one.
Stitchawl
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2001
- Messages
- 26,713
Hum,
I have been witness to many knives and people who can chop trees or 2X4's, turn around and shave hair and cut free-hanging ropes in succession without sharpening in between.
Source: ABS JS and MS test requirements.
Make your points without smartass remarks/comments (especially if they are based on assumptions rather than reality.)
Edited to add:
Links to test requirements.
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/uploads/file/Testing/JS%20Test%20FINAL%204-24-2010.pdf
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/uploads/file/Testing/MS%20Performance%20Test_certification_form.pdf
I have been witness to many knives and people who can chop trees or 2X4's, turn around and shave hair and cut free-hanging ropes in succession without sharpening in between.
Source: ABS JS and MS test requirements.
Make your points without smartass remarks/comments (especially if they are based on assumptions rather than reality.)
Edited to add:
Links to test requirements.
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/uploads/file/Testing/JS%20Test%20FINAL%204-24-2010.pdf
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/uploads/file/Testing/MS%20Performance%20Test_certification_form.pdf
Last edited:
One of these days I'm going to try the paper wheels, out of curiosity. I seriously doubt that the edges produced by paper wheels will exceed those that I get with my edge pro, but I'll give it a try. Most of us don't don't advertise our skills, simply because it's too much like bragging, but I will say for this thread, I would put my EP edges up against anyone's. The EP really is that good, IMO. Anyone with an EP that has taken the time to learn it can probably make the same claim. There are other forumites who can match my EP edges with bench stones. I find that truly impressive.
I certainly don't agree that highly polished equals a wire edge, or that 400 grit is as far as someone should go. Blanket statements like this undermine credibility. It might be true for certain applications, but that needs to be mentioned.
I have 39 years of sharpening experience as well, if you took a poll, you'd probably find that many of us regular forumites are older than you think.
I certainly don't agree that highly polished equals a wire edge, or that 400 grit is as far as someone should go. Blanket statements like this undermine credibility. It might be true for certain applications, but that needs to be mentioned.
I have 39 years of sharpening experience as well, if you took a poll, you'd probably find that many of us regular forumites are older than you think.
They work. They don't give the sort of edges we get with EdgePro, but they work. If you're in a hurry, and have them already set up in a shop, and don't care about a really fine edge, they have their place.
Absolutely. Now... if someone would like to show me some of this magic steel that can cut rebar, push-cut tempered glass, chop down trees, and still shave their face, I'll be the first to apologize for not believing it so.
That really IS impressive. And we do have a couple of folks here who can do it. I'm not one of 'em. I can get a shaving edge free hand, but it's not nearly as pretty as what I get with an EdgePro.
You are shaking up the paradigm of the younger generation!
Stitchawl
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2004
- Messages
- 4,704
They work. They don't give the sort of edges we get with EdgePro, but they work. If you're in a hurry, and have them already set up in a shop, and don't care about a really fine edge, they have their place.
Absolutely. Now... if someone would like to show me some of this magic steel that can cut rebar, push-cut tempered glass, chop down trees, and still shave their face, I'll be the first to apologize for not believing it so.
That really IS impressive. And we do have a couple of folks here who can do it. I'm not one of 'em. I can get a shaving edge free hand, but it's not nearly as pretty as what I get with an EdgePro.
You are shaking up the paradigm of the younger generation!
Stitchawl
Richard never said shave the hair on your face. There is a big difference between shaving your face and some ARM hairs. A knife has to be extremely Sharp and refined to shave your face without it hurting. A knife doesn't have to be all that Sharp to shave arm hairs. Push cutting newspaper with the grain isn't that hard to do either. As Gus said, what Richard is suggesting is part of the testing required to become a registered blade smith. I guess all the guys that passed are liars too?
I have always had quite a bit of respect for what you have to say Stitchawl, but you just shoved a pretty big shoe in your mouth with this thread. Maybe you shouldn't make blanket statements by saying no one can shave after chopping through a tree or 2x4. Maybe your requirements for shaving (not your face) are higher than everyone else's but I have no problem believing it can be done and shave arm hair when done. I've been to a few cutting competitions and its not that tough (nor easy) of a feat to accomplish.
well said FlaMtnBkr. i have shown several members that k II can chop wood or cut down a tree and still shave hair. cjpgyer is one member who has checked out k II for himself along with chuckinohio and my buddy art summers who used to live close to me back in the 90's. stevenkelby made a post in my paper wheel thread that some of these guys need to read. post 710 of my paper wheel thread. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578787&page=36
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2009
- Messages
- 1,421
Sounds like we're once again arguing about details off on a tangent. Not that I don't welcome any discussion about knife edges.
The first point about factory edge angles and factory edge finish is true, at least with Spyderco. The target edge angle of 30 degrees is a very good compromise between toughness and good slicing performance.
The edge finish is also unique, not something easily recreated by the end user. The initial grinding is fairly rough (higher grit stone or belt) and this is finished on a polish wheel. So you have good compromise between bite and good slicing. The factory edge has large grooves but the surface of the grooves are finely finished. The longevity of the factory edge is higher than my edges.
One point I like to make about grit number is that I'm pretty sure Richard is talking about belt grit. A powered grinding system, be it a belt sander or wheels or whatever else, results in a finer and cleaner surface finish than the equivalent bench stone of the same grit level. Let's not mix those numbers.
The last part about overly thinning out the edge (I would say under 25 degrees for most blade steels) makes for an unstable edge. At least that's how I read it. We're talking about the fineness of the edge as in thickness, not about surface finish. Two different things, hence, the example about cutting cardboard.