Don't trust anyone but the hogs

RussMo said:
GLOCK, point, squeeze, bang & problem solved.Hey MARK:p:p:p
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Russ, you're mostly right.

Point, squeeze, bang, but problem created



FUBAR Glock 36 FTW :D :D


That's what happens when you have a case rupture with a polymer gun. It gets FUBAR.

Steel on the other hand, everything is contained. So even if the gun doesn't work anymore, at least you don't have to worry about chunks of your finger and hand missing :eek:
 
semi auto,i love the glock 17.ive owned a colt & a auto ordanance 45 acp and ended up with the glock 9mm.for a revolver i will swear by my s&w 686 and ruger security six.
 
I love Glocks and Sigs. The best -$500 pistol I have is a sig p6 (p225 west german made police pistol circa 1984).

I got mine for $350 2+ years ago and it is still one of my favorites.

They can still be found for $450ish.
 
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find a range that rents handguns or hook up with friends or co-workers that own some handguns. Do not just buy the first gun mentioned here without having fired anything else. Guns are just like cars, everyone likes different things and not all handguns are created equally. I am probably going to catch some flak for this, but do not just buy a Glock. The Glock has grown very popular but not for all the right reasons (damn movies). I mean zero disrespect to anyone here, but so many people I have met who are pro-Glock have either never fired much of anything else or are police officers who believe the department only buys the finest handguns. Most police officers fire less than 50 rounds a year, and its only to re-qualify. Most cops are not gun people. However, the one's who are usually have some very nice toys.

I personally can't stand Glock's. They have a long, inconsistent trigger pull, funky sights and feel like you are banging two small crowbars together when they discharge. That's just my opinion, but you need to be able to decide if the Glock is the gun for you based on firing some other handguns.

For the given price range, check out the Springfield XD line:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php

and the FNH line:

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/group.asp?gid=FNG001

As far as caliber, again, its best to find which fits your shooting ability the best. For me, it's all about the .45 over anything else. I am not going to go over penetration vs knockdown, that could go on forever, but again, don't just settle for the ever popular 40. Don't let mag capacity be your primary choice. If it takes you 17 9mm rounds to defend yourself against one person, you may want to rethink this whole equation. Remember, a spray and pray approach could land you in prison if any strays hurt or kill a bystander.

If you want to save up and go high-end, check out HK:

http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/pistols.asp

You are paying more per square inch on an HK, but they are some of the best. I own several HK's, both handguns and (older) rifles and they are all top notch. Reliable as hell, never a failure and the fit and finish are second to none. I carry an HK45C on me everyday and trust my life with it. My oldest HK is a USP .45 which has fired close to 10k rounds and has yet to hiccup. That one is a little large for carry, so it sits in the nightstand.

This is a big decision and you need to make sure you make the right choice. If that choice ends up being a Glock, then good for you. However, don't end up like so many people I have met at the range who knew nothing but Glock. They fired my HKs, FNH's, Kimbers, and even my stupid .44 Desert Eagle and realized there is so much more out there. Some still stick with Glock, others have switched. Take your time, it will pay off in the end.
 
Glock 19 or 23 everyday of the week. mark's picture is a fluke. I have 10's of thousands of rounds threw glocks with never a problem.

why yes I do glock :)
 
i currently own or have owned least one gun in each of those lines and he is absolutely right about one thing. you need to shoot every gun you can get your hands on before deciding which you want

glock, springfield, colt, kimber, HK, FN.... all are EXCELLENT weapons, but all have different weights, grip angles, trigger styles etc.

Glock is right for me, but i know this after having owned over 50 handguns. My father in law owns more than i do, and swears by his Springfield XDM. I can outshoot him with my glock, he can outshoot me with the springfield.

Picking a gun is like picking underwear... you can't let someone else to do it for you, and expect your junk to end up happy
 
Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the advice. I know its hard to get a really good gun under 500$. This was for a friend who wants a personal defense weapon and i said I would poll the team...you guys always com through and thanks Beprepared for the Busse content!
 
It's actually quite easy to get a very good defense weapon for under 500... it's just not easy to get the BEST for under 500

i would look at the glock 36 for concealed carry... very slim, light, and .45 is a NICE round for defense in such a small package.

other options are the walther pps, the ruger LCP, the Kahr p40 and the Ruger SR40c. All are in your budget and high quality weapons. I've owned them all...

If he's a gun noob, and can't spend hundreds of dollars in ammo and tens of hours at the range, get him a .357 revolver and make sure he shoots at least 400 rounds through it... you can't screw up a revolver if you know what you're doing... it goes bang every time you pull the trigger
 
M67 said:
Russ, you're mostly right.

Point, squeeze, bang, but problem created



FUBAR Glock 36 FTW :D :D


That's what happens when you have a case rupture with a polymer gun. It gets FUBAR.

Steel on the other hand, everything is contained. So even if the gun doesn't work anymore, at least you don't have to worry about chunks of your finger and hand missing :eek:
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Case rupture caused by double loads ( whether factory ammo or home reloads ) can also cause catastrophic failure in metal pistols ... even the strongest of revolvers ...

44mag.jpg


They are however very very rare in factory ammo so selecting a pistol based on a guarantee of safety for such an eventuality is a bit extreme ...

It is probably safer to pick a calibre for this risk management rather than a type of pistol ...

9mm is a pretty safe choice ... the case is already quite full from a single load and in USPSA shooting topping up the load to a compressed load for 9mm major is actually now quite common ... the case does'nt rupture but it won't give you many reloads ... .45ACP is perhaps the worst calibre for this possibility as it can accommodate a double load fully ... and with a heavy bullet such as a 230g FMJ the pressures will cause case rupture of a serious nature ...
 
Havoc550 said:
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find a range that rents handguns or hook up with friends or co-workers that own some handguns. Do not just buy the first gun mentioned here without having fired anything else. Guns are just like cars, everyone likes different things and not all handguns are created equally. I am probably going to catch some flak for this, but do not just buy a Glock. The Glock has grown very popular but not for all the right reasons (damn movies). I mean zero disrespect to anyone here, but so many people I have met who are pro-Glock have either never fired much of anything else or are police officers who believe the department only buys the finest handguns. Most police officers fire less than 50 rounds a year, and its only to re-qualify. Most cops are not gun people. However, the one's who are usually have some very nice toys.

I personally can't stand Glock's. They have a long, inconsistent trigger pull, funky sights and feel like you are banging two small crowbars together when they discharge. That's just my opinion, but you need to be able to decide if the Glock is the gun for you based on firing some other handguns.
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Yup, the cops carry them, so they must be good :foot:

Nope, it's because police get great deal on Glocks, and there's nothing special about them to figure out.

The trigger and the sights never bothered me on Glocks, it's the feel while holding, the feel during recoil, and the accuracy isn't there for me.

Shoot a lot of different handguns, find the one that feels best and you're accurate with.

grunt soldier said:
Glock 19 or 23 everyday of the week. mark's picture is a fluke. I have 10's of thousands of rounds threw glocks with never a problem.
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How many pics of blown up CZs have you seen? And how many pics of blown up Glocks have you seen?

Exactly :p ;) :D

Isn't a fluke. Polymer can't handle the stress of a double charge or a blown case.


and Peter, see, that's the problem. That Smith has a lock on it :eek:

But true, revolvers can be blown up by too much, or not enough powder (powder explodes more than burns). More easily than semi auto since double charge on a revolver is a hell of a lot easier because of the case capacity.
 
grunt soldier said:
Glock 19 or 23 everyday of the week. mark's picture is a fluke. I have 10's of thousands of rounds threw glocks with never a problem.

why yes I do glock :)
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Hahahaha, its 100% real. Remember when your company decided to bore out 9mm to .40 and didn't compensate for the longer case and higher charge? KABOOOOM!! Just google "glock KB" :)

I know Glock owners like to pretend that never happened, so I love bringing it back up when I can. :)

Boom.jpg
 
Millions of Glocks and only a small percentage of issues, even smaller percentage of catastrophic issues, I'm assuming, but pretty sure correct.

I, like many, own a few pistols. I enjoy them all, but choose to carry Glock 9mm. Either 19 or 26.

As said, hit the range and rent / borrow a few. The right gun for you will emerge. Think practicality and consider cost of ammo, etc.. A gun you cannot control or afford to feed is of little use. All stated is opinion, all are invited to politely disagree.
 
M67 said:
How many pics of blown up CZs have you seen? And how many pics of blown up Glocks have you seen?

Exactly :p ;) :D

Isn't a fluke. Polymer can't handle the stress of a double charge or a blown case.
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Havoc550 said:
Hahahaha, its 100% real. Remember when your company decided to bore out 9mm to .40 and didn't compensate for the longer case and higher charge? KABOOOOM!! Just google "glock KB" :)

I know Glock owners like to pretend that never happened, so I love bringing it back up when I can. :)

Boom.jpg
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Mark you just want to argue to argue lol. you know you love glock damn it. honestly I'm not a fanboi of anything. I own kimbers, wilsons, s&w mp, glock, cz, fn, HK, they all work and all have lemons. I have seen some super expensive HK's blown to pieces in pictures and glocks, but I will say I have seen hundreds more 1911 failures in just normal shooting situations than blown up guns :) I have literally put over 15k 9 mil through one glock 19 and never had a problem. I didn't clean it for the first 10k because I wanted to see how it would do. it ran like a champ not one problem.

OP pick up as many guns as you can and see what you like best. or have your friend do it. let him shoot all your guns and see what he feels best in his hands and what he can put the most accurate rounds down range with. all the other shit is kool-aid.
just make sure he carries a good knife as back up in case the guns fails :)
 
Nothing wrong with a Glock, but I only have one to fill the 9mm slot that I rarely ever shoot.
I choose FNH, Sig, Ruger or Bersa for my regularly used autos; Ruger or either Wesson brand for my revolvers.

I started with the cheaper guns until I learned that for a little more money I could actually get something that made me smile when I hold & use it, kinda like buying INFI vs cheaper brands.
The beauty of it is selecting your own on a personal path no one else can walk for you. You may make a detour or two, but eventually you will reach your destination. ;)

FNP-45 is my favorite of them all due to feel in hand followed by a Sig 226, then Bersa Thunder Plus .380 and 1911's follow close behind.
Also have a few fun high capacity Kel-tec's but they aren't on my nightstand.

Regardless of brands, I don't want any gun I shoot to fail at the expense of my body parts, no matter what percentage of odds. :eek:
 
Well, since I last joined this conversation somebody's mentioned H&K and good ol' Glock so...





 
KABOOM! is not the pistol's or revolver's fault. It's the idiot that decided to see what would happen if he double-charged a cartridge. All pistols and revolvers will fail under such circumstances. Find ANY pistol that KB's with factory ammo and I'll show you an instant millionaire...

I saw a KB'd Ruger Super Blackhawk at a gun show a couple years ago. Never heard anyone blame the gun though... seems to be it is a phenomenon solely reserved for Glock. ;)

Handguns do NOT come with brains, you are required to use yours. :D

But to the OP... You can get a Glock 22 police trade in with 3 mags for $329 plus shipping at GT distributors. The grip angle is a bit goofy, the D/A trigger requires some adjustment, and frankly they lack the style of a fine revolver or 1911, but they are great pistols and perform exactly as designed... They work every time all the time. Not many pistol manufacturers can say that. For the price, I don't believe it's equal exists.

.
 
grunt soldier said:
Mark you just want to argue to argue lol. you know you love glock damn it. honestly I'm not a fanboi of anything. I own kimbers, wilsons, s&w mp, glock, cz, fn, HK, they all work and all have lemons. I have seen some super expensive HK's blown to pieces in pictures and glocks, but I will say I have seen hundreds more 1911 failures in just normal shooting situations than blown up guns :)
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Pat, those words will never come out of my mouth. Boxy, don't feel good, and not accurate enough for me

Now, were those regualr 1911s with 16lb recoil spring and standard mainspring? Or one of those project guns that people run 23lb recoil springs , don't bother to put in a full length guide rod, and run super heavy loads through them and beat the gun to death, or did they use 4 finger sear springs and they break them then the gun went full auto? Did they have internal or external extractors?
 
Check out Steyr. Austrian company, manufacturers of the AUG bullpup assault rifle. Take a look at the M40A1. I have one and it's an outstanding pistol. 400 bucks. New ones can sometimes be found for even less. Fully supported .40 chamber too!
 
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