Eagle Scout Lost on Mountain Fined $25,000 for Rescue

boing said:
So due date arrives...he's 17 and works at Burger King or something...exactly how much do they expect to collect come August 9th?

Yesterday I turned around four lost kids who were about to stumble into miles of wilderness...can I get 25 G's outta that deal?
Click to expand...

Gee if there was 4 of'em that ought to be 100K:thumbup::thumbdn::rolleyes:

So Why wasn't their Helicopter ready? it ain't his fault they had to count fall back on someone else.


Maybe at the bottom of a trail they need a ranger shack and a check list so everyone has what they need.

Being stupid in they great outdoors, ain;t too bright, but an accident is an accident. Let's see I am gonna hike up the highest mountain on the East coast with some of the worst weather in the world and half or 2/3's up the hill I am gonna twist my ankle or stroke out just to be an attention getter because I love to be sick and i like pain. I will set of my beacon and launch a weather baloon to signal my where abouts then shoot it down with a flare gun and cause a forrest fire, but thats OK, I will call the TV station on my Satellite Phone and ride out with Chooper dan and News team 7...............

should we just be indifferent and let them suffer to death.
 
As I do this regularly my solution to this is simple.

Gross negligence of the individual, ie alcohol,drugs or sheer risk taking by the stupid should have to pay something. 25K is insane and this young man was not negligent just unfortunate. There has to be some kind of incentive NOT to do stupid stuff.

Many SAR groups survive on non existent government handouts and fundraising. If you are negligent you should pay some cost albeit reasonable. You should also be sentenced to work SAR fundraisers for a year as community service.

No punishment for repeat or the worst offenders is nonsense. Since when did small fines and community service deter anyone from anything.

Skam
 
Last edited:
Don Rearic said:
Who said the government even wants the Citizenry to be involved in things like hiking and camping? We keep hearing about how we have to preserve so many places that we serfs are not allowed to go for our children. But our children won't be allowed to camp there, either. What good is absolutely pristine wilderness if you can't see the place?

It's just a little off the beaten path, philosophically speaking, but anything that carries the stench of individualism is basically despised by control freaks in government. Stuff like this plays right into their hands in my view. Make people too damn scared to go out and enjoy what BELONGS TO THEM in the first place.
Click to expand...

Man, I like the way you think..:thumbup:

I would add that the IRONY of all this is that the states moto is.."LIVE FREE OE DIE"..obviously..the folks from below the border have all moved up and taken over.
 
Hey Skamer, good to see you sounding off on this one. It sounds like this kid needs to push back. I can't fathom a judge finding this fine reasonable unless the fact set is vastly different than reported.

-- FLIX
 
S&R , someone has to pay for it.

Who does pay for it ? Our tax dollars ? Asking because I do not know., but I assume it varies from state to state.

I feel that if one sets out on a journey they should have put more thought into before undertaking then perhaps they should foot part of the rescue bill !

Might teach them a valuable lesson.
 
Tostig said:
S&R , someone has to pay for it.

Who does pay for it ? Our tax dollars ?
Click to expand...
Depends on the circumstances. In the state of Maine, backwoods searches are conducted by the Maine Warden Service, a division of the Dept. of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife (I.F.&W.), which recieves most of its funding from licensing fees (hunting, fishing, etc.). The Warden Service also relies on volunteer S&R groups for assistance. Maritime searches are conducted by the Maine Marine Patrol, which if I'm not mistaken is funded through taxpayer dollars from the general fund. Of course the US Coast Guard plays a major role in maritime S&R as well, they are federally funded.
 
Going by the article, he did really well. He was not particularly negligent, except for hiking alone. But he was really experienced and not badly equipped. He asked about and planned for what could have been a good alternate trail. He was heading up logically to where he knew he could get help.
 
I agree, going by the article I don't see grounds for actual negligence....I hike alone a lot. I am a father and husband who is outnumbered three to one by females...four to one if you include the cat, I really need the peace and quiet sometimes.
 
Makes a PLB sound like a bargain. Maybe you could get a rescue price reduction because they knew exactly where you were.

I live in California. Given our fiscal problems and "great" leadership, I would appreciate no more posts like this. "My" government may think this is a great way to raise revenue!

Spud
 
mistwalker said:
I agree, going by the article I don't see grounds for actual negligence....I hike alone a lot. I am a father and husband who is outnumbered three to one by females...four to one if you include the cat, I really need the peace and quiet sometimes.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:I am with ya A wife, 2 girls, a pussycat. we had another tom cat but he was fixed and just could go on anymore. Love'em but sometimes I just need a small getaway too:thumbup:
 
mistwalker said:
That already happens....not as often as people who don't really need one call for them...but it does happen.

An injured man died here some years ago in route to the hospital. His wife wouldn't call for an ambulance because of the location. They had no health insurance and were just barely making ends meet and the "ambulance" would have had to be Life Force (our air ambulance), in which the ride starts at $10,000.00 and goes up based on other factors. I never heard the rest of the story but the last I heard the state was looking into pressing charges for her not calling for Life Force. Sometimes I think the lunatics have taken over the asylum. It's one thing to set a price higher than the average person can afford....but then to jail you for not taking the option you can't afford. I'm not saying anything else...no desire to go further into politics and opinions.
Click to expand...

To off-set this, we actually have a lot of people call EMS, and accept treatment, but then refuse transport. They get a friend/family member to drive them. The bill for a ride is a bit high. Some people, on the other hand, refuse treatment but accept transport. I guess they trust us to drive, just not to actually do anything for them. :p
 
mistwalker said:
An injured man died here some years ago in route to the hospital. His wife wouldn't call for an ambulance because of the location. They had no health insurance and were just barely making ends meet and the "ambulance" would have had to be Life Force (our air ambulance), in which the ride starts at $10,000.00 and goes up based on other factors. I never heard the rest of the story but the last I heard the state was looking into pressing charges for her not calling for Life Force. Sometimes I think the lunatics have taken over the asylum. It's one thing to set a price higher than the average person can afford....but then to jail you for not taking the option you can't afford.
Click to expand...

You're correct. If you or I do this, it's usually called "extortion" and that's a crime.
 
maybe in the next election year they should put in a special vote... would you like to let the forestry rescue services keep their jobs if on the rare case you might need them that they will bill you a huge amount of money to do so?

why where their helicopters "not available?" I'm sure (well i'm not sure at all) that his parents pay taxes and part of those taxes are spent on buying, maintaining, fueling and piloting helicopters. Why are they having to get helicopters from another state?

2 ends of the spectrum... that other thread where the rescue service was closing down (I believe it was in canada because of litigation) and this one where they are charging unreasonable amounts of money for something they should be doing anyway.

25,000 for three days? You could rent private islands for that amount of jack with private helicopters.
 
id take it to court, no judge is going to agree to a 25k fine.

its sad to see this sort of stuff go on...
 
mistwalker said:
An injured man died here some years ago in route to the hospital. His wife wouldn't call for an ambulance because of the location.
Click to expand...
I was part of a similar experience a few years back. A relative tripped coming down the stairs of my house and broke her shoulder. She did not want me to call an ambulance due to the cost (she was retired and lived on a fixed income). Well, I called anyway and when the EMTs arrived and got her on the streatcher, I pulled one of them aside and told him to be sure the bill was sent to me and not her, as she could not afford it. He told me not to worry about it. The village would send her a bill for it but would make no real effort to collect it if she could not afford to pay. I checked with her later and that was exactly what happened.

I'm sure no all municipalities are so generous, but I was impressed with the way they handled the issue.

Tostig said:
S&R , someone has to pay for it.
Click to expand...

True. In general if you break your leg walking down the street, an ambulance will come and take you to the hospital. Afterwards, in most places they will bill you for it. Why should wilderness rescue be any different? Not saying that the $25K in this story was justified, but if they can charge you for an ambulance ride I don't see why they should not charge you for an SAR. Trekking the wilderness is a leasure activity we take on, knowing that there is a certain degree of risk involved. Why should someone else pay to support our fun and games?

Maybe insurance companies need to start writing SAR riders for our insurance policies. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
gunknifenut said:
Man, I like the way you think..:thumbup:
Click to expand...

You're probably in a very extreme minority, but I appreciate the sentiment. :D

I would add that the IRONY of all this is that the states moto is.."LIVE FREE OE DIE"..obviously..the folks from below the border have all moved up and taken over.
Click to expand...

Same thing happened to Colorado, Oregon, and Montana...that's what I've been told over the years anyway.

I don't know if this applies to all parks controlled by The Army Corps of Engineers, however, in Arkansas, if you are camping and a Park Ranger walks into your campsite and notices a glass container with mustard, mayonnaise, ketchup, jalapenos, pickles or anything else, they can write you a ticket and the fine is $250.00 per container, IIRC. Imagine being out of state and having that happen to you. How did this get put in place? Rowdy drunks, that was the excuse, they didn't want beer bottles broken all over the campsites but they didn't write the law that way and I'm tired of hearing the lame excuses that they "forgot" to or whatever, they are in the business of generating as much revenue as they can.

Same thing goes for this scheme.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top