Eagle Scout Lost on Mountain Fined $25,000 for Rescue

Munky88 said:
In North van, our search and rescue is volinteer, so they will ask for a donation. But in places that charge for rescue I've heard of people actually hiding from rescuers.
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Oh, I'm sure you will see more of it in the future because it will become a business just like any other.

As for this kid, I hope he sues the local government and the SAR "unit" or "group" and whatever DNR or law enforcement people pushing for this B.S. The only way to stop abuses, as one poster/member pointed out, is to fine them and the way the Citizen "fines" government entities is through a lawsuit. Bankrupt them.
 
Again?

Well, to save time, here's the law:

206:26-bb Search and Rescue Response Expenses; Recovery.

I. Any person determined by the department to have acted negligently in requiring a search and rescue response by the department shall be liable to the department for the reasonable cost of the department’s expenses for such search and rescue response. The executive director shall bill the responsible individual, firm, or corporation for such costs. Payment shall be made to the department within 30 days after the receipt of the bill, or by some other date determined by the executive director. If any person shall fail or refuse to pay the costs by the required date, the department may pursue payment in an independent legal action, or by settlement or compromise, and the responsible individual, firm, or corporation shall be liable for interest from the date that the bill is due and for legal fees and costs incurred by the department in obtaining and enforcing judgment under this paragraph. All amounts recovered shall be paid into the fish and game fund.

II. If any person fails to make payment under paragraph I, the executive director of the fish and game department may:

(a) Order any license, permit, or tag issued by the fish and game department to be suspended or revoked, after due hearing.

(b) Notify the appropriate state agency for suspension of any individual, firm, or corporate license issued by the state. This shall include directing the department of safety to suspend the person’s driver’s license pursuant to RSA 263:56 and certifying to any professional or corporation licensing board or commission of the individual’s, firm’s, or corporation’s failure to comply with this section. The professional or corporation licensing board or commission shall suspend or revoke any license, or undertake disciplinary action against the licensee.
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[emphasis added]

Again, note that a court does not decide liability for reimbursement - negligence. That decision is made by the department that will benefit from the reimbursement, as is the amount of the "reimbursement." Court only comes into it if the Department pursues collection activities (attachment of wages or savings; foreclosure) in court.

Nice touch to suspend the driver's license. or license to pursue a licensed employment :rolleyes:

Want a change? Move to N.H. and vote out the legislators who allowed reduction of the standard for collection to negligence and allowed the department that stands to gain to be the judge and jury. All the rest feels good but amounts to a fart in the wind - a well-justified fart to be sure.

Watch the bureaucrats in YOUR state.
 
Thomas,

Excellent! You've settled it then. What the kid and parents should do is seek charges of criminal fraud on the person or persons who made the decision that charging one-fifth of the season's rescues was not only "just" but also "reasonable."

Since the penis-puffers in the fish and game dept. don't mind taking everything the kid has and perhaps a large portion of what his parents have, I think they should all be treated in a similar fashion. I think they should lose their jobs and then when they get a job at Burger King, they should have their wages garnished for years on end, give them just enough to own soap in their shanty. If they have a house - take it. If they have vehicles - take them.

I'm serious. That's the only way to end this crap. Just sue them until no one wants to invoke the law again.
 
If somebody breaks a leg accidentally has no insurance and goes to the hospital then the hospital charges them for it.

I don't see a lot of difference.

Of course I think that medical care, search and rescue and our national parks and forests should all be paid for out of taxes and available to all without individual fees:D;)
 
hollowdweller said:
Of course I think that medical care, search and rescue and our national parks and forests should all be paid for out of taxes and available to all without individual fees:D;)
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Great. What happens when we run out of everyone else's money? Raise the taxes and increase the programs! Everybody happy?
 
For children that become seperated from parents and "innocents" Send in the forest rangers or National Guard or whatever.

Regular people hiking are on their own. You know the risks (or not) and you throw the dice.

Same as a beach without a lifeguard. "At your own risk"

If communities want to put together a volunteer SAR, so be it, but the more Government intrusion you get, the more taxes and restrictions EVERYONE is going to suffer.

Some people have to die to warn the others not to be stupid.
 
PrimitiveMan said:
For children that become seperated from parents and "innocents" Send in the forest rangers or National Guard or whatever.

Regular people hiking are on their own. You know the risks (or not) and you throw the dice.

Same as a beach without a lifeguard. "At your own risk"

If communities want to put together a volunteer SAR, so be it, but the more Government intrusion you get, the more taxes and restrictions EVERYONE is going to suffer.

Some people have to die to warn the others not to be stupid.
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I know I've said this to you before, but I'll say it again: You do not understand the concept of rescue. Just because someone is aware that risks exsist, does not mean they should be abandoned in a bad situation. I'm sure you drive a car. There are certain risks involved with that. I'd bet my next paycheck that if you were to be in a bad wreck, and were injured, you'd want EMS/Rescue called. It's the same thing.
 
PrimitiveMan said:
If communities want to put together a volunteer SAR, so be it, but the more Government intrusion you get, the more taxes and restrictions EVERYONE is going to suffer.
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Most all these SAR teams are volunteers.
Government intrusion is another story.

At least we have a better idea now why primitive man died out. :yawn:
 
EMT_Lee said:
I know I've said this to you before, but I'll say it again: You do not understand the concept of rescue. Just because someone is aware that risks exsist, does not mean they should be abandoned in a bad situation. I'm sure you drive a car. There are certain risks involved with that. I'd bet my next paycheck that if you were to be in a bad wreck, and were injured, you'd want EMS/Rescue called. It's the same thing.
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Correct, through no fault of his own, an "accident," he would be lying there expecting to hear the warm chainsaw sound of a Holmatro Tool tearing at the metal.

Therefore...this can be modified any way we see fit:

Same as a beach without a lifeguard. "At your own risk"
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Same as a stretch of interstate without a state trooper. "At your own risk."

Entering a stop and rob on the way home late at night, there is no cop drinking coffee in the parking lot. "At your own risk." No Life-Flyte for you, gunshot victim! :D

Since we are being bent over at every turn to support the dregs of humanity, a person has certain expectations.

When "PrimitiveMan" states:

Some people have to die to warn the others not to be stupid.
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You know what? It's an ugly thing, but...he's right. As George Carlin once said, "The kid that eats too many marbles doesn't get to grow up to have kids of his own." There is some truth to that, sometimes we need the cautionary tale, you know what I mean? I just think Mr. Primitive Man took the argument to the extreme and most extremes become absurd no matter how wonderful the basis for the extreme is/was.
 
Don Rearic said:
Correct, through no fault of his own, an "accident," he would be lying there expecting to hear the warm chainsaw sound of a Holmatro Tool tearing at the metal.

Therefore...this can be modified any way we see fit:



Same as a stretch of interstate without a state trooper. "At your own risk."

Entering a stop and rob on the way home late at night, there is no cop drinking coffee in the parking lot. "At your own risk." No Life-Flyte for you, gunshot victim! :D

Since we are being bent over at every turn to support the dregs of humanity, a person has certain expectations.

When "PrimitiveMan" states:



You know what? It's an ugly thing, but...he's right. As George Carlin once said, "The kid that eats too many marbles doesn't get to grow up to have kids of his own." There is some truth to that, sometimes we need the cautionary tale, you know what I mean? I just think Mr. Primitive Man took the argument to the extreme and most extremes become absurd no matter how wonderful the basis for the extreme is/was.
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I understand the point he is trying to make. However, in this case, I disagree with him. We're not talking about people jumping off skyscrapers or whatever. He said that if "regular people" are hiking, there should be no rescue for them. That is dumb as hell. If they fall and break their leg, they should most certainly have rescue available to them. In fact, I think that even the people who are jumping off the skyscraper should have rescue available to them, should the need arise. But, I guess it's my job to think that way. YMMV.
 
Look what it has become.

Good SAR volunteers trying to do the right thing, with Government intruding and "Fining" victims. In the meantime, the money probably doesn't even go to the SAR budget. As I unsderstand it, SAR budgets are bare thin.

I stand by the fact that if you are going into a dangerous area, you should know the risk and at some point, become culpable for your own fate, whether that is a ghetto coffee shop or a alpine summit. I've been to both and was prepared for both. Doesn't mean I didn't weigh the risk and I certainly didn't plan on being "rescued" at either place.

We have had these discussions before, how do you determine whether someone was prepared? A filtration straw, granola bars, SAK and a space blanket enough for a soccer mom? Or does someone like me or you who is comfortable going out with NOTHING for a few days seem more prepared?

By the way ESAV, I was born and bred in NJ, you can't kill me off! This is the most hostile environment on Earth! Just ask Tom Brown! Hot, Humid and sometimes dry in the summer, bitter cold and blizzard like in the winter, and highest taxes in the nation to boot! LOL.

Primitiveman didn't die out, on the contrary, the fact that those basic instincts still survive in some of us is the only reason the human race still survives.

Heres my philosophy, take it or leave it.

The more you regulate, the less freedom you will have, and as we all know:

"Those that would give up freedom for saftey shall not have, nor do they deserve either"

Peace
 
New York is NOTHIN!!! Hahaha!

Destroy?

We got skeeters that would carry your rats away! And we have to pay a mosquito tax!

We had to ride to school, uphill both ways on a wooden bike with square wheels and no pedals! And the bike was taxed

Lived in a house so small we had to take turns breathing! And the air is taxed!


Just keep this in mind, You can get into NJ for free, but the cheapest bridge to get out is $3.00

Hahaha!
 
OK buddy, you win!

But when I get old, NJ is the last place you are gonna find me. Your crazy. That's like the fryng pan and the fire.

I need to graduate 1 more daughter in 2013 and I am OUT. I don't care if I never come back. Spent 45 years of my life here and and can't find any redeeming value whatsoever.

Sorry to hijack the thread, I'm done.
 
PrimitiveMan said:
Look what it has become.

Good SAR volunteers trying to do the right thing, with Government intruding and "Fining" victims. In the meantime, the money probably doesn't even go to the SAR budget. As I unsderstand it, SAR budgets are bare thin.

I stand by the fact that if you are going into a dangerous area, you should know the risk and at some point, become culpable for your own fate, whether that is a ghetto coffee shop or a alpine summit. I've been to both and was prepared for both. Doesn't mean I didn't weigh the risk and I certainly didn't plan on being "rescued" at either place.

We have had these discussions before, how do you determine whether someone was prepared? A filtration straw, granola bars, SAK and a space blanket enough for a soccer mom? Or does someone like me or you who is comfortable going out with NOTHING for a few days seem more prepared?

By the way ESAV, I was born and bred in NJ, you can't kill me off! This is the most hostile environment on Earth! Just ask Tom Brown! Hot, Humid and sometimes dry in the summer, bitter cold and blizzard like in the winter, and highest taxes in the nation to boot! LOL.

Primitiveman didn't die out, on the contrary, the fact that those basic instincts still survive in some of us is the only reason the human race still survives.

Heres my philosophy, take it or leave it.

The more you regulate, the less freedom you will have, and as we all know:

"Those that would give up freedom for saftey shall not have, nor do they deserve either"

Peace
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Ok. You're entitled to your opinion. All the rugged-guy talk about "granola bars" and "soccer moms" doesnt change my mind, though. I've always believed that people in trouble need help. Trouble = help. Simple as that. In my day-to-day I do not have the time, nor inclination, to stop and figure out if people deserve help. That includes drug addicts, felons, and soccer moms. They are in trouble, and they get help. Again, YMMV.
 
And I'm sure you have seen way more of it than me.

But you have to admit, at some point, poeople should be taking on some more responsibility without all the "Rescue" and "litigation"

Nobody "deserves" to suffer pain or worse, but you really can't rescue them from their own lack of preperation (physical or mental) at some point.

I would never expect you or anyone else to stop and analyze whether some deserves to be rescued, but I would limit the amount of services available to something realistic and let them know that the resources are limited and after that, they are on their own.
 
"Those that would give up freedom for saftey shall not have, nor do they deserve either"

You realize that you are quoting yourself, right? :D
 
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