Eagle Scout Lost on Mountain Fined $25,000 for Rescue

Tostig said:
S&R , someone has to pay for it.

Who does pay for it ? Our tax dollars ? Asking because I do not know., but I assume it varies from state to state.

I feel that if one sets out on a journey they should have put more thought into before undertaking then perhaps they should foot part of the rescue bill !

Might teach them a valuable lesson.
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That is not the case in this situation. The kid is an Eagle Scout. No doubt he was actually beyond prepared. I can't see anything in the article that indicates a need to SAR at all...
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Going by the article, he did really well. He was not particularly negligent, except for hiking alone. But he was really experienced and not badly equipped. He asked about and planned for what could have been a good alternate trail. He was heading up logically to where he knew he could get help.
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Is hiking alone really negligent? I do it rather frequently as do many of the members here. Maybe he should have turned back because of his ankle, but if he decided to press on it couldn't have been that bad.
 
My SAR post was funded mainly out of our own pockets. We did fund raisers and got about $1000 per year from the county as well as use of county vehicles and 2 deputies. All of our personal equipment was paid for on our own all of our communications equipment was paid for by fundraising. We never expected any sort of compensation for doing our job except that pat on the back for doing the right thing and the thank you from the lost/injured person and their family.

I would bet that the guys on the ground there aren't the ones asking for money, they are there to help their fellow man. From my perspective SAR is a volunteer civil service and ought to be free to all tax paying citizens as such. You wouldn't be expected to pay a fine for calling the police or fire department so why should this be any different? I hope this kid fights this tooth and nail and that as a result laws will be changed.
 
mdauben said:
In general if you break your leg walking down the street, an ambulance will come and take you to the hospital. Afterwards, in most places they will bill you for it.
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I have a home phone and a cell phone. The county I live in hits me for $1.00 on each phone, every month. The state does as well...I will have to look but I do believe both are doing so. These are "911 fees" for the 911 emergency system. When it comes to a medical emergency, it has been very good on the few occasions I have used it. For police? Forget it, most people are being ripped off when you consider the response time.

Further, there are, at least in my state, little weaseling fees hidden in driver's license and renewal fees, tags and titling, etc., that go to support Shock Trauma and the wonderful and very expensive fleet of Dauphin MedEvac choppers we have.

I'm sorry, it's a public service, no one should be charged for it. The whole idea that we have to pay for the ambulances, pay for the employees and everything else, how much is enough? The logical extension of this argument is that you pay for the fire trucks and for all the water and chemicals when your house catches on fire, would you support that? Water is expensive, are you suggesting that people should be charged for that, their fault or someone else's fault, if they have a house fire? How much fuel is burned by these large vehicles on a medium-sized response? I mean, we could go on and on, why aren't people charged for a house fire then? It's just a public service call. But for some reason, when someone has something medical go haywire, it's vulture time. It's disgusting...what we have become.

Why should wilderness rescue be any different?
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Well, it should be different because it kind of sucks to have to pay for the vehicles and all the medical equipment, medications, training and personnel with your tax dollars just to break your leg and have to pay for them again in cold, hard cash. (Using your scenario...)

I participated in the last thread which got kind of nasty. This whole idea what people need to "reimburse the taxpayer" is total nonsense. That money is going right into some political slush fund or it is going to buy votes, the "taxpayer" is never going to receive the benefit of that money being paid back, anyway. It's a farce.


Not saying that the $25K in this story was justified, but if they can charge you for an ambulance ride I don't see why they should not charge you for an SAR. Trekking the wilderness is a leasure activity we take on, knowing that there is a certain degree of risk involved. Why should someone else pay to support our fun and games?
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The government bangs you coming and going. If the crackwhore down the street wants to abort five fetuses, you're going to pay for it! If she wants to pump out five kids and have you pay for them, you will do it! You have no choice but to do it, you are forced to do it. You will pay for her to have them, pay for their diapers, forumula and other food, all of the medical bills having them and taking care of them for years.

Yet you feel guilty for "our fun and games" of wanting to go camping or take a hike, this whole SAR issue is such nonsense.
 
I'm kind of mixed, not on this case, but on the concept of charging for rescue in general.

In this specific I can't see the kid was negligent or reckless. My first thought, before reading the whole article was "He probably went further up because he knew there was either an easier trail to get out on, or was going to a place more likely to be found." Turns out, that seems to be exactly why he went up instead of down, through the very thing that sprained his ankle in the first place. He did the smart thing. He SHOULD NOT be charged, period.

In general, I don't think most rescues should be charged for, partly because shit happens and this is a public service, and second because we ALL do have to pay for it, because the money is taken at gunpoint (Too melodramatic? Don't pay your taxes, the guys that come to collect the money, or confiscate property WILL have guns), against our will, in our taxes.

On the other hand, I'd have no problem whacking those two dildoes in Alaska for activating their PLBs because they got sunburnt.
 
Personally I’m torn on this issue.

I have hiked extensively in those mountains, and have encountered many unprepared collage kids with out a clue looking to get into trouble. Though it does not sound like this young man fits that description.

I don’t know the whole story about the how’s and why’s of this rescue attempt. But I do know that $25,000 does not go very far when it comes to putting boots on the ground and eyes in the sky in that type of wilderness area.

The question of this scouts negligents is one for the courts.

The question of recovering costs from negligent hikers is one for the local voters, and in this area the locals are tired of footing the bill for out of states Bozo’s who think that the White Mountains are as safe as there local town park.

Whether on land or sea, expect more of this in the future.



Big Mike

”Scaring the tree huggers.”

Forest & Stream
 
No negligence that I see, actually he did good except for leaving the trail that was clear when he took his planned "shortcut". He should take this to court and let a jury decide. He can explain to them what he did and why, and let them determine his negligence.
 
So something to think about, are you a member of one of those helicopter ambulance services, maybe like a.i.r.* e.v.a.c., they won't come looking for ya but if you need a fast scary ride to the hospital companies like this do it.

if you step off your deck and twist your ankle you have medical and or home owners insurance. if your in the stix and twist an ankle, its still your ankle. I hate insurance companies, but is there a coverage to pay for this, in Europe I have heard of something like hiking or trekking coverage.

if the 25K is a fine will the money go to pay the expense of the S&R team or just go in the gen rev funds/ coffer and never even get to where it needs to?

citizens, stay in your cube, don't do nothing, don't use things your taxes pay for, Keep out, so the U.N. came sneak in and log off @merika,


Dos Ve Donya
 
Big Mike said:
But I do know that $25,000 does not go very far when it comes to putting boots on the ground and eyes in the sky in that type of wilderness area.
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Well, according to the article, "For the fiscal year that ended June 30, there were 131 missions that cost $175,320, Acerno said."

That would be an average of $1338.32 per mission, if this is in any way accurate.

There is no way in HeII it cost them $25,000 for this rescue, unless Maine charges $23,000 to borrow there helicopters, and even if they do, that is not the kids problem that there own choppers were not available.

They charged him for 1/5 of all of last years expenses.:jerkit:
 
Negligence, IMO, would be disregarding a "closed trail" sign.

The state could always allow the fella to enlist in the National Guard and work it off!

Why even consider an outrageous bill for such a rescue? Most uninsured and indigent drug OD's and alcohol poisionings never pay for their EMS and volunteer ambulance rides. That's a much bigger cost in scope.
 
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Les said:
Negligence, IMO, would be disregarding a "closed trail" sign.
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Correct!

The state could always allow the fella to enlist in the National Guard and work it off!
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Yeah, after all, there is nothing like indentured servitude, slavery or debtor's prison, whichever way you want to look at it...in other words...no.

Why even consider an outrageous bill for such a rescue? Most uninsured and indigent drug OD's and alcohol poisionings never pay for their EMS and volunteer ambulance rides. That's a much bigger cost in scope.
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Correct! Two out of three isn't too bad after all. Back on another page I cited the "crackwhore" argument, same-same, no changey-changey. :)
 
stingray4540 said:
Well, according to the article, "For the fiscal year that ended June 30, there were 131 missions that cost $175,320, Acerno said."

That would be an average of $1338.32 per mission, if this is in any way accurate.

There is no way in HeII it cost them $25,000 for this rescue, unless Maine charges $23,000 to borrow there helicopters, and even if they do, that is not the kids problem that there own choppers were not available.

They charged him for 1/5 of all of last years expenses.:jerkit:
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I'm glad you posted this. They found a 17 year old to bully and financially rape. How could anyone justify this unless the kid was juggling chainsaws and had to get MedEvac'd?
 
Yeah, Purell works really well as long as you don't get the types with Aloe Vera in it or other moisturizers, etc. Straight Purell and/or Vaseline is like napalm. :D
 
Don Rearic said:
I'm glad you posted this. They found a 17 year old to bully and financially rape. How could anyone justify this unless the kid was juggling chainsaws and had to get MedEvac'd?
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Exactly!

Throughout blighted areas in every state, persons without means are given aid and services funded by taxpayers.

The fact that a disproportionate fine is being levied on a 17 year old Eagle Scout leads me to conclude that the young man has been "means tested" and found to come from money.

"Have at those 509c college savings, comrades."
 
There are a half dozen regular posters in here that would do it to him in a heartbeat...I just can't wrap my mind around it. And all of the "let the court decide" crap is just that, crap. Might win, might lose, will the state reimburse him for legal costs if he cannot secure a lawyer pro bono? Probably not. What an absolute abuse of the system and of the EPITOME of what we want a young man to be, EVEN IN HERE! An Eagle Scout, FFS!
 
I remember that story. And really he didn't do anything wrong. He sprained his ankle and kept going a little ways to a ranger station. Talked to the ranger who told him the alternative route was clear, and easier. He decided to take it but the creek was to high.

In North van, our search and rescue is volinteer, so they will ask for a donation. But in places that charge for rescue I've heard of people actually hiding from rescuers.
 
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