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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Ed Fowler Eye Candy
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I'm not a big fan of damascus and prefer Ed's camp knives, about the size of the bent test blade, but this is a set I'd love to own for the historical value alone. As a collector of his knives I think the price is fair and do believe that if Moran's MS set was intact, including the test blade and another contemporary blade in a rare style, it would be priced in the same range. My pockets aren't deep enough either but I'd rather have this than a fancy car any day...
Keith, this dagger is actually the second Ed had to craft. According to the judges the first one didn't meet the "quillion" style requirments. If memory serves it had a small, maybe 4" inch blade, with a steel s-guard and just spacer horn segments down the tang. I have a picture of it but it must be on a disk somewhere.
IMO, the pronghorn sized and smaller knives make great users, are practical to carry, and are affordable. Of course it's up to you to decide how much you are willing to spend on a using knife, but if you can appreciate a good pair of boots or saddle, then a pronghorn would fit right along with it. And you can talk about Ed being a hypocrite but how many people have bought a knife from him and then turned around and sold it for a profit? He might charge more for larger more time consuming knives, but if you can appreciate his design, materials and techniques, then there's no difference than looking at a large Fisk with engraving. Why does Jerry charge more for those anyway?
Some of you guys just obviously don't get what makes his knives appealing to some of us. Besides being a great choice of material for a using knife, sheephorn is also inherently beautiful. In my mind there's no difference to someone just not understanding why you'd spend $1,500 on a nice leather jacket when you can get one made from Gore-Tex for just a few hundred dollars.
Also, guys like Bill Burke and Eldon Perkins can make a similar blade for you in their own style or using any materials you prefer. Bill's blades are the closest I've seen to Ed's but I have a 52100 blade from Eldon that I'm putting a handle on. I've had it for a few weeks and used it to shave, chop and split/pry apart wood and can't wait to get the handle on to really put it through a good workout. You might think it's all smoke and mirrors, that you can get the same results quicker, but the techniques they have developed work.
Anthony, I like your writing but that e-bay comment gets a :jerkit: ...
Keith, this dagger is actually the second Ed had to craft. According to the judges the first one didn't meet the "quillion" style requirments. If memory serves it had a small, maybe 4" inch blade, with a steel s-guard and just spacer horn segments down the tang. I have a picture of it but it must be on a disk somewhere.
IMO, the pronghorn sized and smaller knives make great users, are practical to carry, and are affordable. Of course it's up to you to decide how much you are willing to spend on a using knife, but if you can appreciate a good pair of boots or saddle, then a pronghorn would fit right along with it. And you can talk about Ed being a hypocrite but how many people have bought a knife from him and then turned around and sold it for a profit? He might charge more for larger more time consuming knives, but if you can appreciate his design, materials and techniques, then there's no difference than looking at a large Fisk with engraving. Why does Jerry charge more for those anyway?
Some of you guys just obviously don't get what makes his knives appealing to some of us. Besides being a great choice of material for a using knife, sheephorn is also inherently beautiful. In my mind there's no difference to someone just not understanding why you'd spend $1,500 on a nice leather jacket when you can get one made from Gore-Tex for just a few hundred dollars.
Also, guys like Bill Burke and Eldon Perkins can make a similar blade for you in their own style or using any materials you prefer. Bill's blades are the closest I've seen to Ed's but I have a 52100 blade from Eldon that I'm putting a handle on. I've had it for a few weeks and used it to shave, chop and split/pry apart wood and can't wait to get the handle on to really put it through a good workout. You might think it's all smoke and mirrors, that you can get the same results quicker, but the techniques they have developed work.
Anthony, I like your writing but that e-bay comment gets a :jerkit: ...
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Jose Reyes said:
I'm not sure I understand these two comments Jose. First, admittedly "affordability" is very much subjective. No doubt Bill Gates thinks $60 grand is a pittance. But would you really describe a two thousand dollar 4" carbon steel hunter as "affordable" in any general sense of the term? We're not talking "value" here - I am more than willing to accept that the knives represent good value to those who buy them. But "affordable"? C'mon. Porsche makes an excellent sports car. Bentley makes a superb sedan. But anyone who describes them as "affordable" transportation is probably a bit out of touch. And if all that were required to make them affordable is the ability to appreciate what makes them good, I'd have one of each in my driveway.
And I need some help with the second comment. Are you suggesting there is something hypocritical in purchasing a knife and then re-selling it for a profit? Please explain.
Cheers,
Roger
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
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2knife said:
David, that is pretty insulting. I can guarantee that people like Roger P, Anthony Lombardo and Joss ALL understand what goes into an Ed Fowler knife, myself as well.
I just got an elk handled, stainless bolstered, clip point DAMASCUS Bill Burke hunter with a carbon steel core for less than $2,000. Now THAT was affordable for me, but a Fowler with brass and sheephorn for more than that certainly does not work for me.
Ed is free to charge what he wants, and Daniel is certainly free to charge what he wants, but if the MS set is so hot, then why has Daniel had it on his site for so long? Maybe the rest of the world just doesn't get it either?
One way or the other, Ed doesn't really care, does he? He makes his knives for himself.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
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.
Thanks Steven. Here is a picture from Blade Gallery for the rest of you.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53183&d=1140885553
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Kohai999 said:
Sounds fantastic! Now buy a camera already ya bastid so we can have a look at it too.
David, not everyone who holds a different opinion than yours is ignorant.
For what it's worth, let me make the following observations:
1) I love the look of Ed's larger knives. I saw the bowie he had at Blade and it looked fantastic.
2) Aesthetically, Ed's smaller knives do nothing for me at all. Though there are many similarities in style with Burke's knives, I tend to prefer his smaller blades, for some reasosn. I LOVE this one from bladegallery:
3) A knife's worth is the meeting point of the willing seller and willing buyer. It is not the same for everyone.
4) Describing a $2k carbon steel hunter as an "affordable user" ranks right up there with "Let them eat cake!", IMHO.
Cheers,
Roger
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Roger,
No, it's not hypocritical for Ed to sell a knife to someone for less than the "market value". AFAIK, Ed was selling 3"-4" knives for about $1,000 at the last couple of Bladeshows. Those would make greay daily users. That's more than the $100-$500 most people would spend on a production or custom user but it's not an unobtainable price. I'm assuming these blades are not meant for heavy/abusive duty. I've seen some of Ed's blades seriously abused but those have all been gifted knives.
He also had some huge bowies and various other exceptional pieces priced probably up to about $10,000 that I would compare to the Porsche's and Bentley's. Not everyone can afford those, or even think they are worth it, but it doesn't make him a hypocrite for wanting to experiment and take his time to make the best he can.
I'm middle class and have afforded his knives, but like David says, you have to love them. Steve, this MS set IS hot but at $60,000 it's going to take someone that loves them AND is a millionaire... I guess that's Dan?
Take care guys,
Jose
No, it's not hypocritical for Ed to sell a knife to someone for less than the "market value". AFAIK, Ed was selling 3"-4" knives for about $1,000 at the last couple of Bladeshows. Those would make greay daily users. That's more than the $100-$500 most people would spend on a production or custom user but it's not an unobtainable price. I'm assuming these blades are not meant for heavy/abusive duty. I've seen some of Ed's blades seriously abused but those have all been gifted knives.
He also had some huge bowies and various other exceptional pieces priced probably up to about $10,000 that I would compare to the Porsche's and Bentley's. Not everyone can afford those, or even think they are worth it, but it doesn't make him a hypocrite for wanting to experiment and take his time to make the best he can.
I'm middle class and have afforded his knives, but like David says, you have to love them. Steve, this MS set IS hot but at $60,000 it's going to take someone that loves them AND is a millionaire... I guess that's Dan?
Take care guys,
Jose
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Bill,
That's an awesome camp knife available on Bladegallery, I wish I had the $$$. Roger, where did you get $2,000 from? Keith had a really nice 4" pronghorn he might have been able to get $2,000 for but Ed sold it to him for $1,200. I like the look of his larger knives too, but they are more expensive, doesn't mean the small ones don't work. I don't know if it sounded like "Let them eat cake." but if I said it it must have been "Come eat cake with me, I'm saving for a Fowler..."
Take care,
Jose
That's an awesome camp knife available on Bladegallery, I wish I had the $$$. Roger, where did you get $2,000 from? Keith had a really nice 4" pronghorn he might have been able to get $2,000 for but Ed sold it to him for $1,200. I like the look of his larger knives too, but they are more expensive, doesn't mean the small ones don't work. I don't know if it sounded like "Let them eat cake." but if I said it it must have been "Come eat cake with me, I'm saving for a Fowler..."
Take care,
Jose
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Affordable compared to what? Nick Wheeler & Terri Primos both sold me medium sized users that IMHO are much better thought through and built for less than $500. I have bought perfectly heat treated bowies from such experts as Howard Clark, Kevin Cashen for less than $650. A 3" - 4" hunter for $1,000+ is not "affordable" - it's expensive. Compare it to:Jose Reyes said:
- Burt Foster's Blue Collar hunters - $175
- Ed Caffrey's EBK - $155 - $165
Those are true bargains. Then in the next step up you have Terry Primos' Montero, Pantera, Platypus, Camino, etc. of course, the makers above - and many other well established makers - also have more elaborated utility knives with guards, etc, for $400 - $700. Those are what I'd call affordable. A $1,000 3" - 4" bladed knife isn't so much.
It's one thing to say that those knives are worth what people are willing to pay for them, it's another entirely to call them affordable. At this price, they're luxury - nothing wrong with that, but that's what they are.
I don't see the connexion between profit and hypocrisy, but that's besides the point - if you can buy one of his $7,000 8" bladed bowie and sell it at a profit, you're a genius salesman.
In any case, my point was regarding Ed's disparaging comments on how people are "materialistic", too interested in money, etc. When you look at the price of his knives, and the fact that they can only be afforded by succesful professionals, there's a clear disconnect.
The point is that Jerry sells a completely unique piece, with premium material throughout and all the bells and whistles for the price that Ed sells a run off the mill brass & sheephorn bowie. The idea of comparing those two makes it clear that the Fowler bowie is a very poor value.
Sure, it's a pretty nice material. So what? There are a lot of nice materials out there.
We're not comparing Ed's knives to production knives. We're comparing his work to no frill performance utility knives by other top rated custom makers and bladesmiths.
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Jose Reyes said:
Well, from one place, bladegallery, where a 4 1/4" Fowler pronhorn is listed for $2050. But whether it's $2k or $1k, calling it affordable is a bit of a stretch.
Example. A new member joins bladeforums and says " I am a ranch hand and I could use a quality knife to help with my daily tasks, but it would have to be something affordable." Are you REALLY going to suggest he haul off and drop TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS on that Fowler pronghorn? Try, if you can, to leave aside the issue of whether the pronghorn is worth that much - assume that it is - are you SERIOUSLY going to suggest it as an AFFORDABLE USER??
Roger
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I don't agree with the 'open it up on E-Bay with no reserve' idea, but we can use an E-Bay analogy here, IMO. Several items listed there have a 'reserve' price along with a 'buy-it-now' opportunity. If a buyer feels it is something he wants now, at the 'buy-it-now' price, it is his without further effort. (Assuming the bank will support his or her purchase!)
I thought I saw this MS set advertised in Blade Magazine last fall? My point is, if the price is right to the right person, it is theirs. If the 'buy-it-now' option isn't clicked, it may recycle later on at a lesser amount or stay put. Only time will tell.
I thought I saw this MS set advertised in Blade Magazine last fall? My point is, if the price is right to the right person, it is theirs. If the 'buy-it-now' option isn't clicked, it may recycle later on at a lesser amount or stay put. Only time will tell.
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
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RogerP said:Sounds fantastic! Now buy a camera already ya bastid so we can have a look at it too.
Roger
and the only reason that I am posting is because Bill tried, and the link didn't work, and I don't want to be accused of highjacking the thread, either.
]Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
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Why is this so controversial. In my opinion, this set would likely sell for about $6K-7K on Ebay. Thousands of knife buyers would be able to "vote with their wallets" and determine the true market value like they do everyday with all sorts of consumer and one-off collectible items.
I find it interesting that you guys consider Ed's Mastersmith set as historically significant and would like to hear some of the rationale behind this.
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I was almost too late with my popcorn and soda! (cola, pop, coke, carbonated beverage...depending on your location)
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Joss,
I wasn't referring to production or customs knives, it was your assertion that micarta is a better handle material. It was a 7" bowie btw, and it may seem like just a run of the mill no frills knife but you can't see it through my eyes. And as much as I agree with Steve that you guys are all well qualified knife collectors, it's obvious that you can't appreciate what makes these knives "valuable" to some of us if they all look the same to you. If you don't like brass or sheephorn or think 52100 is just mystique, or not even care for Ed personally, then it's no wonder why you think they are overpriced and I don't blame you. IMO, you're wrong about Ed being a hypocrite. I probably know him a bit better than you, have been to his shop and home, and he really does live the simple life and loves his craft.
Roger, No, I see what you mean and I agree with you. In most cases I would suggest a production knife if it's going to be for a "newbie" or see heavy use. And if you are buying from the secondary market you will be looking at closer to $2,000. But someone who's looking to buy a custom knife is probably in the position to save up that much or pare down their collection a bit to get the money. So if I was talking to someone who found his knives appealing I would advise they save up $1,000-$2,000 and try to make it to one of the shows he attends and not to be afraid to use, not abuse, their knife.
I'm not that familiar with e-bay or auctions in general, but unless you needed to sell quickly and did a significant amount of advertising beforehand why would you sell on e-bay with no reserve? It just doesn't make sense to me...<shrug> Okay, maybe you don't think it's historically significant to the knifeworld in general, but surely you must agree that they are historically significant in terms of Ed's career? If I'm not mistaken JS and MS knives are generally hot items.
As for you, Mr. Wheeler, drop that pop and get back to work! Have you finished Joss' bowie yet? Make sure you charge him $7,000 when it's done...lol
Take care,
Jose
I wasn't referring to production or customs knives, it was your assertion that micarta is a better handle material. It was a 7" bowie btw, and it may seem like just a run of the mill no frills knife but you can't see it through my eyes. And as much as I agree with Steve that you guys are all well qualified knife collectors, it's obvious that you can't appreciate what makes these knives "valuable" to some of us if they all look the same to you. If you don't like brass or sheephorn or think 52100 is just mystique, or not even care for Ed personally, then it's no wonder why you think they are overpriced and I don't blame you. IMO, you're wrong about Ed being a hypocrite. I probably know him a bit better than you, have been to his shop and home, and he really does live the simple life and loves his craft.
Roger, No, I see what you mean and I agree with you. In most cases I would suggest a production knife if it's going to be for a "newbie" or see heavy use. And if you are buying from the secondary market you will be looking at closer to $2,000. But someone who's looking to buy a custom knife is probably in the position to save up that much or pare down their collection a bit to get the money. So if I was talking to someone who found his knives appealing I would advise they save up $1,000-$2,000 and try to make it to one of the shows he attends and not to be afraid to use, not abuse, their knife.
I'm not that familiar with e-bay or auctions in general, but unless you needed to sell quickly and did a significant amount of advertising beforehand why would you sell on e-bay with no reserve? It just doesn't make sense to me...<shrug> Okay, maybe you don't think it's historically significant to the knifeworld in general, but surely you must agree that they are historically significant in terms of Ed's career? If I'm not mistaken JS and MS knives are generally hot items.
As for you, Mr. Wheeler, drop that pop and get back to work! Have you finished Joss' bowie yet? Make sure you charge him $7,000 when it's done...lol
Take care,
Jose
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Fair 'nough, that's a separate discussion.Jose Reyes said:
Well, the facts are clear - it was his usual handle (not ivory or anything fancy), his usual brass guard (not silver or anything precious), his usual steel (not a fancy damascus), and his usual adornment (none). Those are facts, there's no opinion involved in there. I totally understand that it was beautiful to you, but it was a very basic knife by all objective standards.
This is BS. I like Ed most of the time, I like sheephorn, and I think 52100 can be an outstanding steel if heat treated correctly. It doesn't change that they are items of luxury, priced well above similar knives by makers as accomplished as Ed.
He's not 100% of the time, but when he disparages materialism while at the same time selling 7" bladed bowies for $7,000, I don't know how else to call that.
I never argued anything against that.
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
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Joss said:
Joss,
I have talked to Ed about this, and basically, the sales of the knives allow him to continue experimenting and persuing a higher understanding of what he is trying to accomplish.
It is not like he is charging high prices for his knives to keep him in $100.00 scotch and high-class escorts, he is trying to make sure that he has enough of a cushion to eat, and to break blades that he does not feel meet the quality standards that he has set. I think Ed told me that he discards about 10 knife blades or more, for every one that he actually sells. That is extreme.
The prices that Ed charges allow him to continue with his extremely high standards, which is not to say that other makers do not have extremely high standards, it just means that this is what Ed must do to make the product that he makes.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson