Ed Fowler Eye Candy

Kohai999 said:
I have talked to Ed about this, and basically, the sales of the knives allow him to continue experimenting and persuing a higher understanding of what he is trying to accomplish.

It is not like he is charging high prices for his knives to keep him in $100.00 scotch and high-class escorts, he is trying to make sure that he has enough of a cushion to eat, ...
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If I've given the impression that I thought he was living in that kind of luxury, I must correct it. As to the instances of hypocrisy, I refer to him dissing materialism while at the same time selling items that, per their price, are luxury.

... and to break blades that he does not feel meet the quality standards that he has set. I think Ed told me that he discards about 10 knife blades or more, for every one that he actually sells. That is extreme.
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That's more than extreme - if true, this is either imbecilic, incompetent, or just as much of luxury as fancy whiskies, and in my opinion much more wasteful (as to high-class escort, I wouldn't know... :D). In fact, people's luxuries vary, and to me, as a collector / user, it makes no difference whether the maker indulges in luxury drinks, luxury foods, or luxury destructive testing (assuming this is the cause of those rejects).

Honestly, I don't know what to think of this 10-to-1 ratio. I have trouble believing it, but if true it means Ed is indulging into a level of testing that has long ceased to be meaningful or yield any material advantage even to the most extreme user. There is such a thing as diminishing returns, and they would have been met and passed loooooong ago.

The other explanation is that he's very, very, very uncareful during hs forging / grinding. I prefer to believe the first explanation.
 
STeven, I remember when I bought a beautiful Fowler 5" a year ago and posted a thread proclaiming my excitement. All you wanted to do was disparage Ed's knives saying on one hand how you spend so much time conversing with Ed about philosophical issues and on the other basically telling me I'd be disappointed in the knife. And this was after I tried buying a "wannabe" Fowler from one of his students like you just did. You crack me up. Are you harboring a secret desire to own one of Ed's masterpieces but just can't pull the trigger on a purchase so you buy a Bill Burke knife instead? If there's anything hypocritical it's a guy like you that whines about Fowler knives but would stumble over his wallet trying to buy one if the right deal came along.
 
Hercules said:
STeven, I remember when I bought a beautiful Fowler 5" a year ago and posted a thread proclaiming my excitement. All you wanted to do was disparage Ed's knives saying on one hand how you spend so much time conversing with Ed about philosophical issues and on the other basically telling me I'd be disappointed in the knife. And this was after I tried buying a "wannabe" Fowler from one of his students like you just did. You crack me up. Are you harboring a secret desire to own one of Ed's masterpieces but just can't pull the trigger on a purchase so you buy a Bill Burke knife instead? If there's anything hypocritical it's a guy like you that whines about Fowler knives but would stumble over his wallet trying to buy one if the right deal came along.
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Wow Hercules, that was a year ago and still only 18 posts? What, have you been stalking STeven, just waiting for this big opportunity to have your say? :rolleyes: And who are you to be calling Bill Burke a wannabe? :jerkit:

Roger
 
I guess it all comes down to opinions and preferences. Just reading this thread does remind me of puppies chewing on a mans shoe laces. If your the man, it is annoying at first then it becomes comical. If you're the puppy, you don't know the difference.
Greg
 
Hercules said:
STeven, I remember when I bought a beautiful Fowler 5" a year ago and posted a thread proclaiming my excitement. All you wanted to do was disparage Ed's knives saying on one hand how you spend so much time conversing with Ed about philosophical issues and on the other basically telling me I'd be disappointed in the knife. And this was after I tried buying a "wannabe" Fowler from one of his students like you just did. You crack me up. Are you harboring a secret desire to own one of Ed's masterpieces but just can't pull the trigger on a purchase so you buy a Bill Burke knife instead? If there's anything hypocritical it's a guy like you that whines about Fowler knives but would stumble over his wallet trying to buy one if the right deal came along.
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1. I never said that you would be disappointed with the knife. I said that you would probably find other folks that did not have quite your level of "exuberance"
2. I thought that we shook hands, and went our separate ways, and all was good. Am I wrong? Have you been stewing on what I wrote for over a year, rather than hashing it out with me? If that is the case, than you have a serious lack of stones. If not the case, why bring this up again?
3. I like Ed, I like Bill, case closed. I like Bill's knives more than I like Ed's, and Bill is willing to work with me on material choices.
4. "If there's anything hypocritical it's a guy like you that whines about Fowler knives but would stumble over his wallet trying to buy one if the right deal came along"

a. You do not know me, if you want to look me in the eye, and talk smack, you can come to the OKCA, where Bill and Ed will be. I'm pretty sure that most in the room will stand with me, can you say the same?
b. I would no longer buy a knife with brass as a major component, not a Moran, not a Scagel, not a katana, and certainly not a Fowler, regardless of the deal.
c. ***deleted***, because this post should be about Fowler knives, not personality quirks.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
In this corner Joss and STeven vs. 2knife, Jose and Hercules. We are talking about knives aren't we? As soon as I saw this posting I knew Joss and STeven would be leading the charge. No hard feelings friends. STeven I enjoy your sometimes outlandish, opinionated postings on bladeforum. But in the big scheme of things this is a trivial matter to me. I enjoy my Fowler. Talking to Ed is like talking to a 4-star general to me: I get sweaty palms and fumble over my words when talking to this living legend on the phone. I am by no means a knife expert and can't tell the difference between hollow-ground and convex. I like Bill Burke's knives and the one STeven purchased is gorgeous, congratulations. I've spoken to Bill and even ordered a knife from him once. I believe you'd agree with me Bill, Perkins, Draper, and Devereaux are unmistakingly Ed's students. I,too, hope to attend one of Ed's knifemaking seminars someday, Lord willing. I am a quiet, reserved but extremely loyal man--Ed has been a friend to me so I'll defend him. STeven you "rained on my parade" a year ago when I purchased my Fowler. I'm a year more experienced and have put things in better perspective since then. I'm late for church. Folks, please remember our deployed military personnel and pray for their safety.
 
A lot has been said, one concept I feel needs some response was that I have been making the same knife, same steel, same sheep horn and same brass. I have never desired to make the same blade, nor have I.

Those who know how to look into a blade through the etch realize that the nature of the steel has changed greatly in the past 20 years. 52100 steel is now over 100 years old. When I started working with 52100 a #10 grain was only theoritical, it had never been achieved in 52100 at least as far as the literature known to us is concerned, and we have read all we could find. After Rex joined the 52100 team new vision came to our quest. We now had steel from the same pour, an extremely consistent source and progress for our personal Excalibur became possible. Having the opportuity to work steel down from 5 1/2 inch round bars is one of the significant variabbles we have to explore.

Soon we knew that we had achieved a #10 grain in the hardened portion of our blades, at the time the spine knew a grain size in the 6 to 7 range.

The last 52100 blade that Rex evaluated had a #10 grain in the spine and the cutting edge was #14 and finer. To many this does not mean much, but to some this will be realized as an outstanding achievement. The metalurgist who made the steel could not believe that it was his steel in an early photomicrograph, (the one in Knives 2002).

Those who know how to read an etch can see that each year the nature of our blades has changed. The quality can only be evaluated by destructive testing. While the differences may not be obvious from blade to blade, each year at blade show a few will see the difference and comment. Those who can see no difference have not been able to see, this may be my fault for not being able to communicate or theirs for not seeking to know.

I speak of quality in relation to high endurance performance blades as we test them in our shop, and Rex interpretes the science.

Several nights ago I was reading a book on bearing steels for the third time, suddenly one sentence stood out to me that had not been significant to me before. I called Rex and we talked about the full meaning that could be within that sentence, tonight we have 3 hours planned for more conversation about that single sentence. In other words when the student is ready, learning can happen.

At one time fine grain was thought to be a highly significant variable, we soon found that fine grain was not the single attribute, but that the matrix was more significant. In other words a grain size of 14 is ultra fine, but when seeking high endurance performance 14 AND FINER is highly significant, and the matrix contributes to cut and tough.

Yesterday three of us were working in my shop and a new variable to be explored was revealed, future testing may reveal its significance, but Eldon, Butch and I will enjoy the ride. The dream continues and I hope that I don't live to see the final chapter.

I highly resent the implication that I make the same blade every time, the fault may be mine for not communicating the nature of our or my blades, or simply the failure of some to understand.

Nor have I ever worked two sheep horn handles that were the same, each is a world of its own. Seen by some and I welcome their vision, others are equally welcome to pass us by.

I also resent the implication that Bill Moran and I were competitors. Nothing could be further from the truth. When Bill taught me how to forge steel, we spent many hours in discussion about the nature of the forged blade. I filled two note books with questions about the nature of the forged blade, these were a roadmap for the future. No two men who seek excellence compete with each other, the only competition they know is within self.

The blades in the mastersmith set were only the beginning, while some may consider the test blades trash, a few with vision will see them as the beginning of more. The experimental blades I put through destructive testing have always been and remain to be the foundation of all that will follow.
 
To the heart of the way I feel about Ed's knives and style, where concerned.. His work embodies an authentic Western style. In modern times, with so much copied and no real heritage among makers.
He's the real deal. There is value in that.

David
 
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Thanks Ed and David. I anxiously wait for Ed's article in every edition of Blade magazine and wish he'd get his next book published soon. Yes, David, my desire to pay off my Christmas bills almost caused me to make a gigantic mistake--selling my treasured Fowler. There isn't a day that goes by where I don't hold and admire the Fowler I'm borrowing from Ed. I may've purchased it but it'll always be Ed's masterpiece.
 
2knife said:
He's the real deal. There is value in that.

Learning to appreciate the consistency (and improvement) in his work, the way a violin maker strives to make better violins and then passes down the craft (is how I see it). If he doesn't ever make a Japanese-style sword, I'll never care. Leave it to Bailey Bradshaw. If you want a "WOlftooth damascus" Sendero hunter, go to Jerry Fisk or one of his many cronies.
David
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David,

1. I have told you before, that this is a community. The way the you are approaching this, you will never come to truly understand that.

2. Bailey makes a fine katana blade, but you should have said "Leave it to Howard Clark". Bailey does a little bit of everything. Howard has made almost exclusively japanese style using sword blades for the last 8 years. You would not believe how much use and abuse these objects take. Howard has approached 1086M and L6 with a similar degree of search for hidden meaning that Ed has.

3. A crony is defined as "a close friend who accompanies his buddies in their activities". Jerry has students just like Ed. The contempt in this statement is plain to see. I leave you to your little corner of the world. For a teacher, you have an INCREDIBLY narrow mind and focus.

Riad,

You are welcome to your brass patina. I cannot think of any metals involved in knives that yield a less interesting or attractive patina.

If you really want a Fowler knife, Daniel at BladeGallery has one available right now. Or you could pick one up at Blade, or I could buy one for you at the OKCA. You have the means, so if you are sincere, you will get one, and I would be interested in your feelings about it.

If not sincere, you are muddying up the waters right now, and you know that I approach you and this subject with the deepest of respect.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Steven,
With the utmost respect,I must be ill informed because I have a brass parry strip on one of my older Bowie knives and the patina is just beautiful,too me.
I also own Don Hanson's first Bowie and his first forged Bowie,his first is sawblade steel,L6,IIRC,and his first forged is 1080 or 1084,they both have brass furniture/hardware and are 11 and 10 years old respectively,because they were safe queens before I got them they are just starting to patina.
I know Keith and I think Roger,but I may be wrong, aren't fond of brass either.You and they and Joss are the "big boys",I'm not forgetting Peter,just don't want everyone pissed off at me,anywho,I was even gonna' start a thread on Brass guards,ferrules/spacers and pommels/buttcaps.
Suggest to me a metal you like more than brass as far as patina's go,if you would.I sure hope this isn't taken the wrong way as it will be a year for me next week and I've learned and acquired so much in just that short year.A lot from just you.
Doug.
 
Doug,

Why on earth would I be pissed because you like brass and I don't?

Roger
 
leatherbird said:
Steven,

Suggest to me a metal you like more than brass as far as patina's go,if you would.I sure hope this isn't taken the wrong way as it will be a year for me next week and I've learned and acquired so much in just that short year.A lot from just you.
Doug.
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Doug,

1. Brass and my skin have an extremely bad reaction. It makes my hands smell like garlic, and my fingerprints will literally burn into the metal. It sort of makes me have a strong opinion of it.

2. Metals that I like the patina of, and find interesting for fittings(in order) Copper, bronze, non-brass based mokume' gane', shakudo, shibuichi, carbon steel. I like nickel silver better than brass, but nickel silver is basically white brass, and behaves very similarly, ie greenish patina.

My personal preference for fitting materials is (in order) Stainless steel, stainless damascus, titanium, nickel/silver mokume gane from Matt Diskin or copper/sterling mokume from Phil Baldwin/Shining Wave Metals http://www.shiningwave.com/patterngallery.html, carbon damascus, bronze, copper and nickel silver. Lately, I have really started to dig bronze a lot.

PTG(Peter) is a frikkin noob, he just happens to have exceptional taste!:p

A lot of this stuff is pure opinion. I like to tell my knifemaker and collector friends that when you get to this level, most of it is opinion. You have already learned a lot of the basic stuff. The part that I cannot understand is why certain makers get so entrenched with a specific steel as to be dismissive of other steels, in a contemptuous kind of way. I personally think that there will always be a "better" steel suited to knives, as the steel making companies seek a specific market.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Roger,
I don't know,even now,why I said/typed what I did,kindly forgive me if you would,it wasn't meant how it sounded.I'm still new and am trying to get the hang of diplomacy here in the Custom Forum.:)I have learned as much from you as almost anybody,excepting Steven.As we've exchanged a few PM's.

Steven,
Did not know about your allergy to brass,wouldn't even know what shakudo or shibuichi was if not for your input,I do like bronze,have one piece with a bronze ferrule/spacer and guard.
Apologies to all I may have offended,just trying to learn and put myself on a level that I can intelligently discuss these things with you guys.
Also,I inadvertantly left Ari out of my "big boys" comment,and I'm sure several others.
Thanks for your tolerance,
Doug.
 
Hey Steven
My Fingers always smell like garlic:D
Thank you for offering your assistance as well..I am aware of the piece on
Daniels site.. and have actually mulled it over..but in this instance I'd prefer a piece off the table...I may drop you a line yet!
dont mean to muddy waters at all Fowlers work has always appealed to me.And his articles and methods intriguing...a point about hypocrisy was made about (and Im paraphrasing here)marketing what is essentially utilitarian knives and selling them at a premium...well that is true but rampant..at essence we are talking about tools..the more we pay the less likely we are to use..however and i'm not sure here but I think Fowlers quest is for ultimate performance..quite Zen when you think of it.
But I speak from a keyboard and not from first hand experience.

spirited debate is vital to mutual uderstanding.
I respect all who participate!
 
Kohai999 said:
2. Metals that I like the patina of, and find interesting for fittings(in order) Copper, bronze, non-brass based mokume' gane', shakudo, shibuichi, carbon steel. I like nickel silver better than brass, but nickel silver is basically white brass, and behaves very similarly, ie greenish patina.
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I find myself in near complete agreement with Steven here. I like his "nickel silver is basically white brass".

I find that both NiSilver and brass patinate in a very ugly fashion. The metal becomes cloudy and ugly. Bronze gets a much, much nicer range of colors.

I like wrought iron too.
 
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