Ed Fowler You Need to open your eyes

SAR

SAR

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Ed your recent article "Where are all the new guys" (Blade December 2008) really serves as a slap in the face to many young makers currently building "A Honest knife for a working man".

You state that the knives lack what you call "home" well once again times are a changing Ed and so does the environment we live in. you know the old saying "Lead follow or get the out of the way"

I am not sure what this has done to promote any young maker to accept the torch you wish to pass?

I think your comment about "I worry about our future" was stated in part as your inability to embrace the current and the future young makers style in which knives are made?

If I am wrong about my understanding on this article or you for that matter I will eat crow pie with a public apology.

Please before you guys want to lynch me, I have built knives that feature Bone, antlers, some mystery steel etc and I have built knives with all modern materials and I can appreciate both sides of the coin.

I talk to many makers of this "New Generation" and Older who on a daily basis pour in their "Blood, sweat and tears into every knife 5,6,7 days a week.

Mods sorry if this is not the right place, it does deal with "Custom Knife-makers and collectors"

Spencer Alan Reiter
SAR custom knives
 
I have heard about this article but unfortunately Blade is not sold in the city I live in Brazil. Sometimes when I am lucky enough to be in a business travel I find it on major cities airports.

So... in order to better understand the article, could anyone scan the text in the magazine so we can read it? That is, if this is not copyright violation. Thanks.

Jeff Velasco
 
First let me preface this by saying I've enjoyed several of the articles that Mr. Fowler has written for Blade.

Having said that I have to say that I agree with the sentiment of the thread starter here.

The general gist of the article the way I read it at least is that Mr. Fowler is afraid that since the next generation of knife makers often use exotic materials to make art knives and that he believes that the knife as a serious working tool is going to the way of the dodo. Further he believes that newer makers using exotic materials are somehow not being true to what they really want to do in pursuit of the almighty dollar.

I'm afraid I disagree 100%. The niche of the working knife is taken care of by literally dozens of production and custom knife makers. Do you want a plain field / camp knife? There are a hundreds of production and custom offerings available. Something to whittle with? Again the same thing. There is no dearth of user knives available performing the same function that they have since time immemorial.

As for "not being true to themselves..." Why does Mr. Fowler believe that someone can't be true to themselves using exotic materials? Isn't it possible that is exactly what the maker wants to do? Are you going to tell me that Mr. Tighe or Mr. Lambert or Mr. Marzitelli aren't making knives that they want to make?

Honestly I think that Mr. Fowler's tendency to like the more primitive knife like objects out there has sort of carried him away a little at the moment... I'm not worried about the future a bit.
 
Just check out our Wilderness and Survival Skills forum for new makers using basic designs and materials for working knives.
 
Triton said:
I'm afraid I disagree 100%. The niche of the working knife is taken care of by literally dozens of production and custom knife makers. Do you want a plain field / camp knife? There are a hundreds of production and custom offerings available. Something to whittle with? Again the same thing. There is no dearth of user knives available performing the same function that they have since time immemorial.
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I have not read the article, so I cannot speak to what Spencer is writing, but I am sure that I feel similarly to him, knowing Ed.

ALL must understand that HARD USE and dependability in the knife is of paramount importance to Ed Fowler....there are many who make a hard using knife,and test for the durability of their knives, but Ed has taken it to the extreme, and there are only a handful of makers I personally know that push it as hard.

I leave it to the makers to debate if Ed's chosen steel(52100) and methods(low temp forging, and multiple thermal cycles) produce a better knife than other methods. For me, his aesthetic and chosen handle materials have kept me from developing my opinions with firsthand experience.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
I have not read the article, so I cannot speak to what Spencer is writing, but I am sure that I feel similarly to him, knowing Ed.

ALL must understand that HARD USE and dependability in the knife is of paramount importance to Ed Fowler....there are many who make a hard using knife,and test for the durability of their knives, but Ed has taken it to the extreme, and there are only a handful of makers I personally know that push it as hard.

I leave it to the makers to debate if Ed's chosen steel(52100) and methods(low temp forging, and multiple thermal cycles) produce a better knife than other methods. For me, his aesthetic and chosen handle materials have kept me from developing my opinions with firsthand experience.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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I too was agreeing with Spencer... :)
 
To be fair to Ed I have sent him a email to alert him to this thread, hope to see him here.

I was going to scan the article but felt that would not be right as a subscriber to blade.

Maybe I will ask Steve for permission to do so?

Spencer
 
Triton said:
I too was agreeing with Spencer... :)
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That is obvious, Triton.

The only point that I was making concerns Ed's fanatacism towards a hard use knife.....that singular dedication is NOT the province of all who work in "The niche of the working knife is taken care of by literally dozens of production and custom knife makers."...many simply make the best knife that they can.

Nothing wrong with that at all, but not what Ed Fowler is about, and not what he hopes for the newest generation of knifemakers.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I see a lot of the "the perfect tool" talk going on all around. Here in Brazil too. I like the results you get from 52100 steel and I agree that some procedures can improve the basic results you get from that steel. It takes a great deal of skill but the results on themselves do not appear to be substantial to me.

However the custom knife industry is just so much more than just working tools. Just as much as the automobile industry has a number of different kinds of products that range from trucks and school buses to Ferrari and Masserati sportive cars.

The custom knife is made to a specific task, and its performance should be measured accordingly. I also believe that the primary task of an art knife is to bring joy to the admirer of such objects.

That being said, to focus an evaluation of the industry in the tool aspect of knives sound live a very narrow point of view.

Jeff Velasco
 
Kohai999 said:
That is obvious, Triton.

The only point that I was making concerns Ed's fanatacism towards a hard use knife.....that singular dedication is NOT the province of all who work in "The niche of the working knife is taken care of by literally dozens of production and custom knife makers."...many simply make the best knife that they can.

Nothing wrong with that at all, but not what Ed Fowler is about, and not what he hopes for the newest generation of knifemakers.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Your right Steve but that gives him no right to address a class of makers that he seems to have no clue about.

Has Ed even considered that my "Home" for the last 17 years was in the US Army, which has some of the most lethal cutting edge technology in the world, so instead of looking at sheep and shears for material I am looking at a M1 tank or F-22 raptor for inspiration and materials?

We can hang with Ed question is can Ed Hang with Us?

Spencer
 
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Just for the record I have spoken to several "Young makers" that have read this article, so for me to say we on somethings is completely accurate:).

Spencer
 
I haven't read the article and will reserve specific comment on it until I do.

I will say that I am tremendously impressed by the work I have seen of the newer knifemakers in recent years. The talent is both deep and diverse.

It would be consummate arrogance to state that because others aren't making knives my way, they aren't making them well.

Roger
 
I have been collecting custom knives for about 20 years. I have owned Ed Fowler knives, but never used them. The primary reason is that I didn't use them is that they were too expensive for me to use. I know that Ed tests his blades and cares about how they perform.

Ed asks in the "Blade" article, "Where are the new guys making simple but honest working knives?" He mentioned that at the A. G. Russell Knife Event that he only saw one new maker. I believe that many of the makers who were at A.G."s Show were friends of A.G and there to honor A.G. for many years of service to the knife industry.

I attended this years Bladeshow. I saw very many makers who were making "honest working knives". I collect mainly ABS stlye makers. Every year there are young makers coming up through the ranks of the ABS. I am sure that this holds true for stock removal makers as well.

I see from the various forums all the time new makers showing "honest working knives". Don Fogg's forum is primarily about sharing information with new makers.

I agree somewhat that some new makers try too soon to make fancy highly embellished knives that they try to sell for premium makers prices. I do not agree that there is a shortage of new makers. There are more custom knifemakers now than any time in history. If anything we should be worrying about a shortage of new collectors.

Jim Treacy
 
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[QUOTE=Kohai999


I leave it to the makers to debate if Ed's chosen steel(52100) and methods(low temp forging, and multiple thermal cycles) produce a better knife than other methods. For me, his aesthetic and chosen handle materials have kept me from developing my opinions with firsthand experience.


While I am not a "tactical style" fan I have to agree that the new makers are producing some amazing pieces.

I admire and repect Ed Fowler and I think STeven has been very accurate with his assessment of Mr. Fowler's postion and intent concerning the artical.

Mr. Fowler's curved sheephorn on every single knife of his I've seen has also kept me from having any first hand experience.

Paul
 
I've noticed no lack of talent, innovation, skill or motivation to learn, in many of the 'new' makers I've come across in my short time here.

The amazing properties enabled by today's metallurgical technologies allow lots of new makers to create an honest to god usable knife without having to familiarize themselves with the cryptic language of forging a great knife from mediocre steel alloys.

The access to information, as mentioned in Fogg's site and elsewhere, has enabled individuals to learn the craft of making usable knives totally independent of the physical presence of a mentor. However, the internet has also allowed those with a thirst to learn, the ability to connect and meet their favourite established makers face to face and get their info direct from the source.

I can see how anyone who is making a serious go at this knife making business would feel burned, having such a knife making legend come down on their contemporary views on what constitutes a good, usable knife. I'm sure Ed's heart is in the right place, and I'm doubly sure this wouldn't be the first time an old timer spoke down to the young wippersnappers.

That many of today's makers focus so much attention on 'martial' knives is a product of a changing world. It doesn't make these knives less useful, and that they look different is not intrinsically a bad thing.

I haven't read the article either, but I'm sure most of you are getting used to my piping off so I'll leave it at that:)
 
Spencer: I thank you for your criticism, there is a lot to debate in the article and this is a good thing for only through debate do we learn.

What torch do I wish to pass? You will note I suggest that the old generation has been judging the new and suggest that it is time the new generation judge themselves, and maybe the old as well.

I also suggest that knives can reflect home, time and place as did the knife Dan Dehennhey made. It told a story, revealed a history most will never know.
Dan needs no promotion, he makes a wide variety of knives and is a very special man in our history. The knife filled me with appreciation for Dan and his knowledge and consideration for what was.

Not too long ago makers were featured in Blade that made knives using metal from the Twin Towers. I felt this was a fine tribute to both the makers and the memories.

Years ago I visited the Statue of liberty, noted a piece of wrought iron sticking out of the grass in one of the little parks. I thought of picking it up and using it in a knife, some of my great grand parents were welcomed by the Statue of Liberty and I thought of it as a tribute to them. I decided it was for a New York City maker to use if that would be its destiny and left it for another.

One man make made a knife out of scrap from the battle ship his father died on at Pearl Harbor. That was a knife with a lot of emotion, and a fine tribute I thought. Another knife had handles from a stump his father and grandfather dug out by hand clearing land for their homestead. These are the kind of knives and makers I sincerely appreciate.

I just read that man or pre-man if you will has been making knives for 2 1/2 million years. I have studied stone age tools and felt the emotion of the maker, others know only tradition and craftsmanship of the time and place. None are bad but some are so much more. The past is never threatened by the future.

I don't want to write a book, just a little more explanation of my motives for the article.

Again thanks for the thoughts.
 
I havent read the article in Blade , havent picked up the issue , but based on what I gather from Ed's post , he seems to be referring to " inspiration ".

I think many makers , new and old have made knives from the things that Ed mentioned.
I am building a knife now using a cutoff from a set of deer antlers. The story behind it is , a neighbor lost everything in a house fire. He is a big time hunter , both with bow and rifle.
These antlers survived the fire , but the rest of the mount did not. We helped him remove a bunch of the destroyed mounts after the fire , he gave me these antlers. Right away I knew how to put them to use , build him a knife utilizing the antlers.
So that when his house is rebuilt , a part of his hunting past lives on.

Without a doubt many makers have done similar type things , it just may not get brought to light on forums , as it is most often , a bond between the maker and the recipient. Or perhaps , they were posted and were missed by others.

Gotta see if I can make it to Borders tonight.
 
I read the article carefully and more than once. I saw NOTHING that could be construed as a "slap in the face" to young makers. To say the article was is a gross mis-interpetation of the article and a failure to understand basic english. What I did take from the article was that Mr. Folwer had been to a show had not seen many young makers, and therefore was voicing CONCERN over that fact.
The bulk of the article was more about makers developing their own style and that style reflecting where the maker had come from instead of following trends.
Petty, bickering, dis-respectful, nit-picking attitudes displayed by forum members and displayed in this thread are why I have nearly quit logging into this forum.
 
charlieridge said:
I read the article carefully and more than once. I saw NOTHING that could be construed as a "slap in the face" to young makers. To say the article was is a gross mis-interpetation of the article and a failure to understand basic english. What I did take from the article was that Mr. Folwer had been to a show had not seen many young makers, and therefore was voicing CONCERN over that fact.
The bulk of the article was more about makers developing their own style and that style reflecting where the maker had come from instead of following trends.
Petty, bickering, dis-respectful, nit-picking attitudes displayed by forum members and displayed in this thread are why I have nearly quit logging into this forum.
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Thank you.
You said it better than I could.
In actual fact, the first two paragraphs included some of the most complimentary comments about modern day makers' accomplishments than I've read in a long time.
 
Just went back and re-read the article in question. I don't think every knife needs to tell a story or have its genesis in something directly related to the maker's surroundings. Inspirations can come from pretty much anywhere. I feel there are a fair number of young/newer makes putting out good knives and they're not sacrificing any creativity or sense of self for making a quality product.

If Mr. Fowler feels that the knives he's seeing from the young guys are devoid of self and not something he can appreciate, so be it. If he wants them to question themselves and their choices, that's fine. But if they come back after doing that and are still the same, what then? Would he have them give up knifemaking because one person thinks their knives aren't inspired or honest?

I like Spencer's designs. They're not everyone's cup of tea, but the same can be said for Mr. Fowler's knives. I own a knife made by John Wylie who posted a reply above. I'd say without hesitation it's an honest knife for a working man. That should count for something, even if I'm not Ed Fowler.
 
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