Ed Fowler You Need to open your eyes

Lorien said:
"...but as a paid subscriber to the magazine..."
Perhaps a letter to the editor would have been a little more appropriate. However, this discussion has been very interesting so far.
The title is a little inflammatory, as it could have easily been called 'Ed's article' or somesuch.
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If you read my last post I do and have apologize for that.

You know we can do all the judging we want, what needs to be worked on is acceptance?

Spencer
 
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For those who want to read the entire article Steve Shackleford just posted the entire article, you can read it here www.blademag.com

All of the photos are not posted up, you may have to purchase the magazine see them, but the writing is in it entirety.
 
I subscribe to the magazine and read the article when I first recieved the magazine. I was not upset by it. I just re-read it and it still doesn't bother me at all. The main theme I take from it is "hey, new guys, put some of yourself in your designs." Now, I'm not a knifemaker, not yet anyway... Had I been making my own knives for a while I may have taken it a little personal, but then again, I can't imagine myself being at knife show outside of as a fan.
 
No judgment meant from me Spencer. I'm one of the last guys to judge another. :)
Just putting that out there, wasn't trying to rub your face in it or anything like that, and I do totally see where you're coming from.
 
I was a little upset with the article. I may have read too much into it, but I perceived the talk about the show as a sort of metaphor for the knife making world as a whole. While I understand the sentiments that can go into creating things out of your backyard or regional area I don't think you have to create a knife with home. It seems to me that there are a lot of new makers exploring the metallurgy of their blades and working to create better cutting instruments as opposed to using unknown steels. I personally do not use mystery steels to sell to my customers because I want to ensure that I am giving them the best blade possible. I don't find anything wrong with that as sentimental knives and steels can also be very important to a customer. I forged a knife out of Craftsman socket extension for my father and he loves it, but he also never cuts anything with it. But just making a hard-working knife just doesn't cut it sometimes. There are probably more knife makers out there than there ever has been and simply put; the bar has been raised.

I'm sure it happens, but but I don't see a lot of makers sacrificing their "self" for their work. Most of us got into this because of our love for blades and I think creativity is flourishing in the knife community. I see the makers creating the trends, not the trends leading the makers. There is a part of me in every single knife that I make and I think others do too; but it might not be shown by choice of material.

Personally; I do not worry about the future of custom knives -- I am excited about it and hope to continue to be part of it.

Just my 2 cents. :)
 
Well, I got the chance to read the article on Blade´s website now, and now I can comment on it.

I find myself asking, “Where are the new guys making simple but honest working knives?”
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The Two first paragraphs describe the art knife concept being put into the market. The question quoted above comes right after that description. I guess what bothers me is the word "honest" that may imply that an art knife is not "honest" by any mean? I got confused here.

A knife can truly represent a maker’s history and environment. Working with his emotions, regional history and personal skills, a maker can truly state himself in the knives he makes
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This is another interesting statement. It is obviously true, but the opposite is not necessarily a bad thing. Being universal on design and inspiration, even for simple working knives is good IMO.

Our new makers see what the collectors are buying, or appear to be seeking to buy. Some new makers seem to feel this is what they must make and, as a result, sacrifice their most precious potential contribution, individual creativity—what I like to call self.
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I disagree. I guess that any new maker that offers what the collectors only APPEAR to be seeking, but not, will have to change his offerings fast or be out of business very quickly.

The market is a very good measurement for that. And as much as I would love to be really romantic and believe something else, the truth is that the market has expanded itself and I feel more money is being spent on tactical and art knives than before.

I don´t think that someone might be sacrificing his/her SELF for pursuing this market share. I also think that, like Spencer, may other makers are extremely happy to make such knives. Their designs inspire them, their knives work well for the soldiers, law enforcement officers and regular citizens who wish to defend themselves, art collectors, and all others who decide to put their money on their product. Maybe we should think about "educating the market then?"

To duplicate the art knives of today that grace our literature requires a lot of skill that may or may not be related to an honest working knife, which may discourage many newcomers. The maker may feel he must bow to authority and caress the traditions that have been established. The old guard judges the new and the new makers accepting their judgment become a part of the flock.
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The maker MAY FEEL, but does he? How can we be sure the reason why SOME new makers act in similar fashion is this specific one? I tend again to look at the market... what is the market asking for?

There was a time that the custom makers were leaders and the factory knives followed. As I walked from display to display at a recent show, it appears that many of the factory knives are leading the way when it comes to a working knife.
The questions we must individually ask of ourselves are: Do we want to simply preserve the past for our benefit or somehow encourage a future in the world of knives that encourages creativity and a presence of the maker’s history, lifestyle and place? If we choose to encourage the artists who think for themselves, how can we help?

We could judge them and officially recognize their work, but again, tradition would raise its ugly head. Paul Burke, one of the guiding fathers of the American Bladesmith Society, worked on his own to encourage the newcomers. He bought a lot of knives from new makers, using his own funds. He purchased the first knife I sold at a BLADE Show. He first complimented my thoughts as he read them in the knife, then proceeded to ask me questions about the knife. I know that he had answers to the questions he asked, but he asked them in order to make me rethink the many decisions I had made in crafting the knife. His guidance did not stop there; we spoke often, at shows and over the phone. He sent me literature to review and was a constant source of inspiration. Never did he seek to direct my course to his kind of knife; he encouraged me to be myself.
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This part is very interesting. Rather than criticizing new young makers I feel Ed has tried to share the responsibility of what he thinks is not going well with the old guard. Lack of guidance and support, of tutorship of some kind, or even of honest straight answers when criticism is sought by new makers (like Chris stated above).

If we consider the hypothesis I have proposed, that the market itself is changing, than how could one thing be related to the other?

At this point I see no criticism to new young makers. I see what I consider a view of the context limited by one point of view, Ed´s, and one I don´t particularly agree... that we lack "honest working knives" and that "high-end art knifes..." made with "materials come from thousands of miles distant from the maker’s shop" and other kinds of knives, lack the personality of their makers.

To be honest though I have seen what I think I understood as the "lack of self" Ed proposes in new makers, but after some time I never saw those guys again, and assume the market took care of their short knifemaking careers.

Jeff Velasco
 
to give it a point of view,

One of my favorite knifemakers is Don Hanson.

A large portion of Don's work is damascus steel with mammoth ivory. definitely not "local" materials.

in some limited way the assertion here is that since Don is not using local materials his work is in some way lacking, which I would find absolutely ridiculous as an assertion.


and then on the opposite end we have a smith like Tai Goo, who harvests his own resin for use in his handles. some truly inspirational work very much based on local materials.

are we to say that one smith is superior to the other based on the source of his preferred materials?????


(personally I find huge amounts of inspiration in both Don and Tai's work, they are simply used as recognizable benchmarks here)
 
Like all discussions, there are two directions, and middle ground. :)

We have often talked of makers who have knives left on their table after a show, or on their sites, languishing. They are there for two reasons: They are priced too high, and/or they are not appealing to customers.

The propensity of new makers in this internet age, has made it quite competitive. Those who don't keep an eye on the business side of things won't survive as well as those who do. And that would be making knives that sell, so one can afford and be motivated to make the next one. And so on....

These wonderful romantic words: 'Honest' 'Soul' 'Home' 'Self' are great adjectives IF you are selling knives. If you are not, then it's time for a reality check and to see what the trend is. Back to basics, and that may include creating knives that have less soul and more saleability.

Money, of course, always plays a role. :grumpy:

All that said, I enjoy your readings, Ed, and now this discussion has benefitted more than taken away. :thumbup:

Coop
 
With all due respect to Mr. Fowler I don't think he meant to insult anyone but rather encourage them. That said he need not look any further than this forum to find the the makers he describes. Off the top of my head I can think of several I think meets the criteria he describes. Dan Koster,Tom Krein, Butch Harner, Scott Coombs,Brian Goode etc...and I know I have left many out. I see new knifes posted in the exchange everyday that meet those criteria so I for one am not worried about the state of the knife making industry.
 
Self Justification Drives Opinion:
-People who have chosen to make wooden apples as a profession will always voice a need for wooden apple makers.
-People who invest in a process or product will always justify their actions in some way or else they look pretty silly
-People with a vested interest in a niche of any business will usually condemn competing niches in one way or another.

I don’t see the article as insulting. I simply see it as an editorial written by someone with a narrow focus on his own style knives and his own idea of what a knife should be. It doesn’t make that opinion true or wrong, it’s just an opinion and the context of it needs to be understood.

If you read a vegetarian’s article on eating, you will probably find their concern for the meat eaters in it. If you read a religious editorial, you will find concern for the godless citizens of the world. If you read an editorial by the best known maker of "working knives" who has a vested interest in the "soul" of a knife, you will find concern for makers that might not be making working knives or going out of their way to impart souls into their blades.

None of this is a new concept...it’s simply what drives someone's opinion. If you want to find someone's motive for saying something about a profession, the first place to look is where they fit in that profession. 99% of the time, you will find that their opinion simply mirrors the product they produce or supports the ideals they feel others should pay for...which coincidentally their product has.

I won't go so far as to say the article is a simple advertisement, but really what is the difference between it and a car dealer writing an article voicing their concern for the poor practices of all the other car dealers in the area and how those bad dealers are hurting the reputation of all car dealers. The article might look like an attempt to help all car dealers realize the wrongs of their ways, but it also makes that car dealer writing the article look pretty appealing, no?
 
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Can Mr. Fowler ( or someone ) explain what exactly an " honest working knife " is ?

I have an idea , but am not quite sure if it meets Mr. Fowler's definition as used in the article.

I ask where are the established makers who are offering the same knife ? I highly doubt a $900 knife fits the working man's definition of a working knife. I see Tom Krein making what I would consider a working mans knife , solid , different , FUNCTIONAL , and affordable.

From the article Mr. Fowler wrote:
I wonder and feel that maybe it is time for the new to judge the old and themselves as well
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Perhaps this is what SAR is doing , new judging the old , which is what it seems Ed was looking for ...

For the most part the article didnt bother me at all , other than the honest working knife being percieved to have to be offered by the new makers ( when the most of the old no longer offer an affordable one ) , I found the article a good , interesting and thought provoking read.

Some makers find their " market " and stick with it , their styles don't change , their designs don't change much , others make wide spectrum of offerings. I have seen makers that have been around for awhile , where majority of their work looks the same , and newer makers where they have a diverse lineup of offerings. Then again you also have some older makers who have a wide range , and some new makers who have few.

Hard to say which road is best for all , if you follow what you like to make , you may find you have a hard time selling them , yet if you follow the trends and make what is now hot you can sell , but perhaps in the process stifle your creativity.

Which is what I think Mr. Fowler was getting at in the article:
Our new makers see what the collectors are buying, or appear to be seeking to buy. Some new makers seem to feel this is what they must make and, as a result, sacrifice their most precious potential contribution, individual creativity—what I like to call self.
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** I referred to him as Mr. Fowler out of respect **

Spencer my friend , you are certainly not one to follow the crowd , your designs are unique , with a purpose and well done.
 
If you will go to The Wilderness and Survival Skills section of Blade Forums, you will find examples of "working man's" knives....
 
plenty of new guys around. Some just choose not to see them. I actually prefer to look at what I DONT make VS what I make. I am a stock removal guy who started off with shop limitations so stock removal was more a method I HAD vs what I LIKED to VIEW.

I know my work has heart because I see it in the faces of the guys who like what it is I do, however small in the big scheme of things. I was blessed to be included by those that inspire me and become an equal to them. They opened their circle to have me in it because I still feel I dont deserve to be in it based on skill alone. ABS guys encourage me to grow, machinists or exotic material guys encourage me to grow, as do the freaking folder guys that piss me off because they make it look easy:D

Basically what I am saying is that we all need to inspire each other or its pointless to learn something that you can in turn motivate someone who may look up to you for guidance.

The new guys are here or are on the way wether we like it or not. Hell, nothing is really new but that doesnt mean that the soul isnt being fed a new meal :)

I dont think Ed meant any harm just like my friend Spence cant be the one we attack in this thread for speaking his mind first. They both question......and that at times is a good thing. I know it also takes guts to say whats on your mind and I myself got a tad pissed at thinking Ed was saying we make what sells. HEll, I make what I can. Dont you think if I could pull off what Don Hanson makes thats what I'd be making ;) !!:p
Thats what is fun about this... we're all hear to inspire however that is whithin our abilities.

I know that I only make "A working mans knife" and nothing else.

If you dont agree, ask my customers.

Weather that makes me worthy of being seen as new guy is up to whom ever is looking ;)
 
Thats all warm and fuzzy, but hell I live in frikkin Hemet California.. You ever been here?LOL.. I guess I could go hunt down a pitch fork I stepped on as a kid, or dig up some crap steel on the property and forge it into a blade. Then I suppose I could scare up some wood or horn around here for handle material. Yah I could probably cobble together some story to go along with this knife of questionable construction. But what would it be several generations down the road? Once the story doesnt matter anymore. Its just a piece of shit knife that could be so much more.

I dunno, for me the beauty of a thing has ALOT to do with how it actually works and will work for a LONG time. Cutting edge materials, and HT, simple, pure design, does it for me all day long. I think about how the knife could be used when I look at it, not what kind of story it tells.

I guess Im one of those that isnt all in-tune with the soul, and mystical properties of knives. To me they are tools, or they are wall hangers.
I have made knives that I consider wall hangers, but more than anything its to show I am capable of doing that, and variety is always fun. ANd hell they do LOOK cool all dolled up..;) But everytime I make knives like that, I just know the knife is doomed to live in a safe, and never actually be used.


I guess Im kinda "new fashioned" and rambling here, but I think young makers making "working mans" knives are being represented very well, by alot of makers mentioned in this thread. Maybe they didnt dig the steel out of an old truck they used to drive, or use antler from thier first hunt, but they are making knives that will tell thier own story many lifetimes down the road by still being an exceptional tool.

Just me...
 
I consider myself a new maker. I also see what Ed is saying and agree that often I make knives for people that normaly I would not make. I do this because I need the money. That income helps me to pursue that which I would like to do. I personaly do not like the modern tanto knife. But, I recently sent 13 to Iraq. So I too am admitidly a bit of a sell out. I really was not proud of those knives. They did not give me that feeling that I got when I made a Stag handled drop point for a customer in Alaska. Alot more of me went into the drop point.
I think Mr Fowler was simply saying you will make better knives if you stay true to yourself. If that is the case I agree. Just sometimes life gets in the way.(and I need the money)
 
wellllll ... this is interesting ..... this topic ... similar to old money folks vs new money folks .... :) :)
 
I have alot of respect for Ed Fowler and his work I read the article and my impresion of the article was Ed was trying to inspire makers to not follow trends and be individuals. Sounds good to me Ed.
 
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