Edge Pro Matrix resin bond diamond stones

[Runs with Knives]

Well I did all of that except for the swarf, it was building up like crazy - more than any other stone I've used yet! I'll keep those tips in mind when I use it next, which hopefully won't involve cutting a huge 3mm bevel. xD I think on Edge Pro's site they suggest the 240 Aluminum Oxide for the 250+ grits and the 60 just for the 80. I'll take your advice and order the 60 grit carbide flattening kit for it. Is there an easy way to source some sand or similar to resurface the 80 grit? I'm several hours from the nearest beach.

Also again going a bit off topic does anyone here happen to know a good adhesive for attaching some stones/plates to an edge pro blank? I'm not sure about the 3M super 77 spray edge pro recommends as it seems very messy.

 

[Blues]

Also again going a bit off topic does anyone here happen to know a good adhesive for attaching some stones/plates to an edge pro blank? I'm not sure about the 3M super 77 spray edge pro recommends as it seems very messy.

It's really not messy. Put the blanks and the stones on a sheet of paper or cardboard. (I did a few at a time.)

Spray each lightly but completely with the Super 77, wait 30 seconds or so, line 'em up, press 'em together and voila! Let 'em cure for a while before use.

If I can do it, anyone can. I'm not the most patient or meticulous person when it comes to arts and crafts projects. (I'm the kid that colored outside the lines.)

I know @miso2 uses double sided tape of some sort. Hopefully, he'll chime in.

 

[Steven W. Knight]

I use 3M Super 77 multipurpose spray for my LEATHER strops to Edge Pro blanks.

I buy the Buffalo Leather 2" by 50" from Ebay and make the strips cut with a RAZOR cutter fit exactly to the blank.

I get a piece of clean printer paper or even my wife's stain glass rippled parchment paper - (to protect work bench) and spray the leather and the blank wait a few seconds (20-30) and join them together.

THEN Get a NEW clean piece of paper and use it "U"ed up to gently place it in my large shop vice. Tighten vice very snug - NO more.

This would work the same with any stone BTW... Let it cure overnight and double check any extra "side stickies" which can be removed by the 90% alcohol LIGHTLY on a rag...
Trial & Error you will learn...

I Must have 10 strops of Buffalo Tanned, and 6 more regular leather Tanned - for my finish "choice(s)" - on all knives. Like the Buffalo better BTW... AND They are both "VERY" close to my Edge Pro Diamond Matrix stones in depth. Amazing...

HOWEVER: I wish I could find Kangaroo CHEAP! Or even Balsa wood... they would be fun to try too...


Anybody can chime in I am not proud - always learning - like to be able to have more fun that way...

 

[Steven W. Knight]

DIEMAKER - I appreciate your 250 EP Diamond Matrix and BTW all your Diamond Matrix stones - bar none.. They changed the way I look at sharpening toward very positive - from the GET-GO!

Again I only use LIGHT PRESSURE on any EP Diamond matrix stone period.

I do have several regular EP stones below the 250 grit plus two EP mounted Chef Knives to go Diamond 140s which are way better than my Spyderco Sharpmaker Diamond
insert - diamonds on a metal bar - reminds me of a super sand paper - LOL. Fragile. (I also have very cheap stones which fir the EF Professional.)

I always figured your EP Diamond Martix stones were such that needed LITTLE pressure "if any" for longevity and clean-up. If I needed to re-profile any knife I would start
with the EP mounted by Chefs Knives to go - Diamond 140 V (name) - get my edge - then run through the Diamond Matrix stones AS NEEDED.

But that's just me... BTW

 

[Diemaker]

Well I did all of that except for the swarf, it was building up like crazy - more than any other stone I've used yet! I'll keep those tips in mind when I use it next, which hopefully won't involve cutting a huge 3mm bevel. xD I think on Edge Pro's site they suggest the 240 Aluminum Oxide for the 250+ grits and the 60 just for the 80. I'll take your advice and order the 60 grit carbide flattening kit for it. Is there an easy way to source some sand or similar to resurface the 80 grit? I'm several hours from the nearest beach.

The swarf acts just like loose abrasive, which it is, and wears the resin. Do you know how much it is dished? .005" would not be enough to worry about and .01" would be getting there, it is a coarse stone after all. As for the grit to use to dress EP and I don't agree on it. I have dressed the 250 with the 240 grit using lots of it and keeping it fresh and I never got that stone to cut as well as it should, use the 60 grit and it cuts steel twice as well. Same with the 80 grit stones, 60 grit loose abrasive just doesn't get in there and wear the resin down, 36 grit starts to work but you can't let it get too ground up, it really should start as 24 grit. I use a super coarse sand for pool filters that I got at an Ace Hardware store, some of the grains are 1/8" in diameter. It is so coarse it is a bit of a joke, it feels like it has to be tearing up the stone while dressing it but you can't argue with the results. When you are done dressing the 80 you should feel the individual bumps of the diamonds. With the 250 you should just feel the diamonds in the stone after it is dressed. If possible use some calipers to measure the thickness of your stone before and while dressing. You really don't want to change the thickness of the stone when dressing, you only want to remove resin between the diamonds. If you are changing the thickness then you are done dressing, unless you need to level them.

Also again going a bit off topic does anyone here happen to know a good adhesive for attaching some stones/plates to an edge pro blank? I'm not sure about the 3M super 77 spray edge pro recommends as it seems very messy.

I line up the parts on a piece of cardboard and spray them with a moderate coat of adhesive. Leave just enough room between the parts so they don't stick together. After the glue gets tacky then press everything together, for leather strops clamp it in a 6" machine vise between two flat metal plates with a few thousand pounds, and then rub the excess glue off with my fingers before it completely cures. You don't have to press the parts together in a vise but it does help to level the leather. The only real mess is the cardboard, which goes in the trash when done.

As for tape, I have heard that outdoor carpet tape is good and 3M VHG tape is much better.

Steven, how well do those CKTG diamond plates hold up? How much pressure do you use?

 

[Steven W. Knight]

Steven, how well do those CKTG diamond plates hold up? How much pressure do you use?

Okay true confessions:
To date I only have used DOWN TO the EP 400 and the Chef's Knives To Go Diamond V 400 - to clean-up a chipped point on a Spyderco Manix 2.
I have not even used your Diamond Matrix 250 yet. My 50 knives usually only need the Diamond Matrix 1100 upward - mostly the Buffalo stropping...

Specifically I just ran out and tried to clean up the CKTG Diamond V 400 grit with LOTS of 90% ish alcohol. It is a good flat diamond stone, lots better than the
Spyderco Sharpener Diamond Triangles which are rather thin - the CKTG Diamond 400 which I remember USING NOW early last year - I just put two to three times the very
light normal pressure I use on the EP Diamond Matrix stones.

I Say - as I remember - about 3 to 5 pounds. I learned from the Spyderco years ago, that their diamond triangle metal insert was not built for pressure because of it's thinness.
The CKTG 400 Diamond (Venix?spelling) JUST NOW was very hard to clean (I cleaned it when I used it too)- UNlike the EP Diamond Matrix stones which clean everytime for
I baby all of them - because I respect them so much.

Sadly, I have not had a use for the CKTG 140 Diamond (Venix?spelling) yet. I do remember that the CKTG Diamond 400 V - knocked down the chip and lined up the point for me -
the Spyderco Manix was one of my 7 Spyderco Manix EDC knives... in CPM S30V steel... I do like this steel quite a bit - over my CPM-S110V 3 Manixs.

The plate held up better than the regular EP stones which come with the Apex & Professional models. I was fixing a 1/64th or better inch chip however...

I

 

[Runs with Knives]

Anybody can chime in I am not proud - always learning - like to be able to have more fun that way...

Love the attitude man! Many years ago before Facebook, Reddit and Discord were much of a thing I was a member of another hobbyist type forum growing up. Needless to say there were several times where the older, hardcore experts of that place felt the need to belittle and dress me down for my lack of experience in their hobby. Really affected me at the time and I guess somewhat today as I was wary of posting here until I looked through this thread and saw that Diemaker/David himself was still learning about his own stones, and that made me feel much better about asking questions here!

Anyway I'll pick up some of that adhesive and give it a go. Thanks for the input guys! Will look into some of the tapes aswell.

The swarf acts just like loose abrasive, which it is, and wears the resin. Do you know how much it is dished? .005" would not be enough to worry about and .01" would be getting there, it is a coarse stone after all. As for the grit to use to dress EP and I don't agree on it. I have dressed the 250 with the 240 grit using lots of it and keeping it fresh and I never got that stone to cut as well as it should, use the 60 grit and it cuts steel twice as well. Same with the 80 grit stones, 60 grit loose abrasive just doesn't get in there and wear the resin down, 36 grit starts to work but you can't let it get too ground up, it really should start as 24 grit. I use a super coarse sand for pool filters that I got at an Ace Hardware store, some of the grains are 1/8" in diameter. It is so coarse it is a bit of a joke, it feels like it has to be tearing up the stone while dressing it but you can't argue with the results. When you are done dressing the 80 you should feel the individual bumps of the diamonds. With the 250 you should just feel the diamonds in the stone after it is dressed. If possible use some calipers to measure the thickness of your stone before and while dressing. You really don't want to change the thickness of the stone when dressing, you only want to remove resin between the diamonds. If you are changing the thickness then you are done dressing, unless you need to level them.

I'll take your advice on what to use for each stone and try my local Ace to see if they have something similar there for the 80 grit.

It dished just enough that I can measure it with my straight edge and spot some light through another stone that I freshly flattened. It's very little and I was really working the stone hard cutting down both a plane blade and one of my knives with a large chip so still very impressed with it. Never seen so much metal come off a stone before but then I typically use water stones and still very much a newbie when it comes to diamond stones. Never measured it new so for all I know it could've been somewhat off from the get-go as I understand one member here had his slightly dished when new. I think I can dig up some calipers here but not sure how accurate they'll be as I've never used them and they aren't digital. I guess that's one more thing to add to my buy list!

Thanks again for the help, and the info/history earlier on the 300 grit stone, and for making these stones as I only have one (250) but it's my favorite thus far that I've used for the Edge Pro and I have a fair amount of other aftermarket Japanese water stones I usually use. Excited to pick up some more of the matrix stones down the line and I'll have the 80 grit soon to use on a few more blades in need of repair once the FedEx guy finds my place. Was tempted to get one of those Chefknivestogo 140 plates instead but I love the more muted feel and same relative thickness of these stones too much to go without.

 

[Diemaker]

If all you see is a spot of light I wouldn't mess with it if it is still cutting fine. With the 250 I doubt you would notice the dish while sharpening until it got to around .015" which would be a lot more than a spot of light. The problem others have had is reverse of dish, the flats get dished and the ends of the stones get thinner than the centers. Don't worry about the calipers being accurate, all they need to do is repeat so you can see how even the stone is or if it's losing thickness while dressing. You don't want to use good calipers on these stones anyway. Glad to hear you got the 80 and thank you for your support!

 

[Steven W. Knight]

Love the attitude man! Many years ago before Facebook, Reddit and Discord were much of a thing I was a member of another hobbyist type forum growing up. Needless to say there were several times where the older, hardcore experts of that place felt the need to belittle and dress me down for my lack of experience in their hobby. Really affected me at the time and I guess somewhat today as I was wary of posting here until I looked through this thread and saw that Diemaker/David himself was still learning about his own stones, and that made me feel much better about asking questions here!

Thank YOU BTW - I am ordering the 80 GRIT EDGE PRO DIAMOND MATRIX STONE makes a full set that way... YOU Runs with Knives are a true gentleman - and like common sense - is not very common.

 

[Runs with Knives]

If all you see is a spot of light I wouldn't mess with it if it is still cutting fine. With the 250 I doubt you would notice the dish while sharpening until it got to around .015" which would be a lot more than a spot of light. The problem others have had is reverse of dish, the flats get dished and the ends of the stones get thinner than the centers. Don't worry about the calipers being accurate, all they need to do is repeat so you can see how even the stone is or if it's losing thickness while dressing. You don't want to use good calipers on these stones anyway. Glad to hear you got the 80 and thank you for your support!

Yeah I've yet to notice any loss of cutting speed and it's barely noticeable with my straight edge so just gonna leave it be for now. Not to mention it's gonna be spared as a roughing stone moving forward now that I have the 80 grit. ^_^

Thank YOU BTW - I am ordering the 80 GRIT EDGE PRO DIAMOND MATRIX STONE makes a full set that way... YOU Runs with Knives are a true gentleman - and like common sense - is not very common.

Much appreciated! I'm sure it will serve you well. I just got mine in the mail today. Very shiny with alot less texture than I imagined. Can't wait to see what it does to a couple of my tools that need back beveling.

 

[Diemaker]

None of the Matrix stones should be shiny, especially the coarse ones. Can you feel the individual diamonds as bumps when you run your finger across it, it should be very noticeable.

 

[Runs with Knives]

Yeah I meant shiny as in the diamonds themselves. I can definitely feel them, just was surprised in comparison to the gravel-like texture of the coarse KME hones I used to use.

Hmm... Every time I run my fingers across it several diamonds pop right out. Is that normal? I can actually hear it as well.

 

[Diemaker]

Hmm... Every time I run my fingers across it several diamonds pop right out. Is that normal? I can actually hear it as well.

That sounds like it was dressed a little too much IMO but nothing to really worry about, since I made that stone I am sure it's not defective. Once you sharpen a knife it will settle down, but those loose diamonds can cause stray scratches on the first knife, which is normal.

 

[Runs with Knives]

Good to know. Also I have another question - Will toothpaste affect these stones? It sounds a little silly but I took my electric toothbrush to my Atoma with some toothpaste and it did an amazing job making it clean and shiny like new. Wondering if it would work on these in a similar fashion as opposed to using alcohol.

 

[Blues]

Excellent new sharpening video and images D Diemaker

Thanks, David.

 

[Diemaker]

Thanks for the plug. I recorded a few videos a month ago, with corresponding microscope photos, but my computer started crashing right after an 11/6 Windows update, up to 10 a day recently, so I had to get that figured out before editing them. This is a format I have been wanting to explore for a while, to show what is happening at a level you can't see with the naked eye, or really even with a loupe.

 

[scottc3]

A picture is worth a thousand words for sure! Another 10 months of use, next.

 

[Steven W. Knight]

Appreciated your video above - saw it under favorites today. Nice set up for the sharpening - but love the microscope the best.

I thought it was sharp enough when you stated. LOL. Then compared the before and after pictures. YOU DID WELL!

Shows us what we get for our specific edges - when we just follow along.

 

[bodosom]

... Unfortunately, the only way to dress them is with loose abrasive on a hard flat surface, there really is no other way that works nearly as well. I have tried dressing them with alox stones and other than the initial tests with the Shapton glass stones it didn't work out at all. The SG stone did work on the finer Matrix stones, 2300 and 4k, to clean but that was all. You REALLY NEED the loose abrasive, the cutting action is totally different than a fixed abrasive, especially on big surfaces like a stone. For the 250 you want around a 60 grit abrasive. EP sells 60 grit silicon carbide powder for this but a similar grit, or a bit coarser, sand works just as well but doesn't last nearly as long. For the 80 you need at least a 36 grit SC or a very coarse sand and for the 650 and up use the 240 grit brown alox powder from EP, which is simply the best for these stones.

The YouTube video "Updated How to dress Edge Pro Matrix Diamond stones" posted on May 23, 2019 seems to contradict the above since it shows sand, aluminum oxide and a regular Edge Pro 1000 stone being used for dressing. Will you be making a new video or perhaps adding a note to current video? Or maybe it's not that critical as long as you don't follow the advice on some other videos that radically shortens the stone life. I have a full set and the price is such that, while they're a consumable and I don't want to overthink this, I'd prefer not to act as though they're disposable.

I have 36, 60 and 240 grit silicon carbide, 240 grit aluminum oxide, a standard set of EP stones and some Shaptons. Should I replace the 36 grit with some 20/40 sieve (pool filter) silica? Is there something special about brown 240 aluminum oxide or is black 240 SiC equivalent?

 

[Diemaker]

Yeah, I am still learning and some things I try seem to work but might not repeat well so my advice then changes. I have recorded a new video but it didn't look good when I watched it, I still have to see if I can salvage it with editing. Either way, I need to do a new one. I bought 2 Naguro stones a few weeks ago to try and will include that once I do so. While these stones are consumable they should last a lifetime of personal sharpening if used correctly. You have all the grits needed to dress your stones properly. I have used 36 grit Sic to dress the 80 and it worked fine, a little on the fine side but it still did the job. I prefer 60 grit Sic for the 250. The only difference between the 240 black Sic and brown Alox is price, Sic is twice as much when buying it by the 50lb bag so that is why I suggest Alox. Black and brown are the least friable types so they will last the longest, but the other types still work. When I am buying loose abrasive for my own needs I look for sand because it is wildly cheaper, although the pool filter sand works better and lasts much longer than the 36 grit Sic. The general purpose sand for the 250 doesn't last nearly as long as the Sic but $4 from the local lumber yard is way better than $150 and shipped across the country$$$ for 50lb bags of either.

Neither the 80 or 250 should need dressing from use. IF they do then don't dress the 80 on your good flat, it will be HARD on it. The back of your flat or the sidewalk would work. I use a very textured porcelain ceramic tile. It has a fairly wavy surface but that doesn't affect how evenly the stone is dressed, and is getting flatter the more I dress. The 80 grit stone is HARD on flats! The 250 isn't too bad.