Edge Pro Matrix resin bond diamond stones

sickpuppy1 said:
And dont think that just because it gets dirty it needs to be lapped or resurfaced. Clean it with some dawn and a toothbrush, or maybe even a little barkeeps friend. But lapping doesnt need to be done very often at all!
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I typically don’t clean them, but I bought bar keepers friend for when I do need to clean them.

Speaking of which what should be a prompt to lap them with 240 Aluminum oxide? I’m not sharpening for money. I have a small personal collection of sub 4 inch folders and sharpen as a hobby. I’m thinking once a year? That’s just a guess I don’t even know if it would need to be annual. I am curious now...
 
Diemaker is probably best to answer this, but after each use I just take my finger and some water and brush it back and forth to get rid of the obvious stuff and rinse them off. I use the barkeepers friend and a toothbrush after 6-10 knives even though they are working fine still. And lapping? Basically when I feel a degradation in performance, which yeah, with use like mine or yours can be yearly.
I have the 240 grit AO, and have put it near my sharpener just so I remember where it is......
 
The prompt to lap them is when they don't cut as well, as in less than half as effective when broken in. If you are all set up to lap them then play with using too much pressure until the stone quits cutting as well, it should be obvious. Then lap it for 10-15 seconds until it just loses the dark marks from the steel. This will inform you of what too much pressure is, what a "dull" stone feels like, and how much faster a freshly dressed stone cuts as well as the enhanced scratch pattern. Don't worry about needlessly wearing the stone, you will learn a lot and only lose around .0001" of stone thickness in the 1100 and finer stones.

How often you need to lap really depends on how well you take care of them. If you do everything right then I would guess 1000ish strokes for the 4000 to 2000-3000 strokes for the 650, the coarser the grit the less often they need dressed. The 250 and 80 should only need to be dressed when they get dished too much, so 20,000 strokes?
 
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Thought about it only because my old Lansky set up used oil, but since Diemaker and all I’d read was water on these haven’t tried it.
 
I have tried mineral oil. I like that it doesn't evaporate but it also doesn't wash the swarf off nearly as well either, and I didn't notice any difference in how the stones cut. The real clincher for me was when I went to clean up and put everything away, oil creates a lot more mess. Oil will not cause any problems with the resin or aluminum so as long as you keep the swarf from building up when using the coarser stones, it doesn't matter with the finer stones since the swarf is too fine to really wear the resin. If you do use oil the lower the viscosity the better to help remove the swarf.

Do not use solvents as they can/will attack the resin and do not use alkaline cleaners, such as Simple Green, as they attack the aluminum.
 
@Diemaker I recently sharpened a couple of my friends knives with the matrix stones (up to 4k and then up to 0.1 microns with diamond paste) and he remarked they cut better than when he bought them!

I just sharpened my pm2 Maxamet right to the hilt, took it to 650 and it's got a lovely toothy bite, I love these stones.

One question, I can get a beautiful, scratch free mirror finish on my edges up to the 2,300 grit but then on the 4k I get lots of scratches - I don't think this is normal with the matrix stones, do you have any ideas?
 
Realysm42 said:
@Diemaker I recently sharpened a couple of my friends knives with the matrix stones (up to 4k and then up to 0.1 microns with diamond paste) and he remarked they cut better than when he bought them!

I just sharpened my pm2 Maxamet right to the hilt, took it to 650 and it's got a lovely toothy bite, I love these stones.

One question, I can get a beautiful, scratch free mirror finish on my edges up to the 2,300 grit but then on the 4k I get lots of scratches - I don't think this is normal with the matrix stones, do you have any ideas?
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It sounds like your 4k stone is contaminated and needs to be dressed to clean it up. 10-15 seconds with the 240 grit Alox on a flat plate is all it needs to be working like new.

Have you been using edge leading strokes with the 4k? IME this is the fastest way to "contaminate" the stone so it causes stray scratches. I think it catches burrs along the edge and pulls them between the stone and bevel embedding the bit of metal in the stone and scratching your bevel.
 
Diemaker said:
It sounds like your 4k stone is contaminated and needs to be dressed to clean it up. 10-15 seconds with the 240 grit Alox on a flat plate is all it needs to be working like new.

Have you been using edge leading strokes with the 4k? IME this is the fastest way to "contaminate" the stone so it causes stray scratches. I think it catches burrs along the edge and pulls them between the stone and bevel embedding the bit of metal in the stone and scratching your bevel.
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Thanks, yes I have been using edge-leading strokes.

I'll clean up it as you suggested and try using only edge trailing strokes.
 
Diemaker, you've said you have created more, and finer grits than edge pro has released. It's time for you to release what you have independently. The market is there. People would snatch them up. What are you waiting for?
 
Baron Mind said:
Diemaker, you've said you have created more, and finer grits than edge pro has released. It's time for you to release what you have independently. The market is there. People would snatch them up. What are you waiting for?
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Interesting.

Do you know what format these will come in? I'd definitely buy higher grits for the edge pro.
 
Realysm42 said:
Thanks, yes I have been using edge-leading strokes.

I'll clean up it as you suggested and try using only edge trailing strokes.
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Here is the best image I can find of what I am talking about. This is using a Matrix 9000 stone on my Henckels santoku, details matter. Notice that many of those scratches point to damage to the edge. I really think the stone is grabing either burrs or the apex and pulling it between the stone and bevel. An SEM video of what happens when sharpening would be nice, wouldn't it? All of the deep scratches are from the 9000 stone, the nice polished part of the bevel is from the 4000.

edge-leading-pass.jpg


Baron Mind said:
Diemaker, you've said you have created more, and finer grits than edge pro has released. It's time for you to release what you have independently. The market is there. People would snatch them up. What are you waiting for?
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I have had my bench stones for sale since February, which is when I finally got a website up, and they are now on Gritomatic's site too. The link to my website is at the bottom of my posts if you want to check it out. I know the website is pretty basic but I like to do them myself so I can easily add to it. The information on the Maintenance and Use page applies to the Matrix stones as well. So far I make resin bond diamond stones, the same as the Matrix stones, in 1"x4", 2"x6", 2"x8", and 3"x8" sizes. They come in 6 grits, 160, 80, 40, 20, 10, and 5-micron diamonds. Just like the Matrix stones, the resin/ diamond mix is 1/16" thick on aluminum plates in the same concentrations. The only difference with the Matrix stones is I slightly changed the size of the diamond used for the middle 3 stones, the 40, 20, and 10, so the progression is numerically even. I have been too busy to do any promotion and don't want to be "pushy" about them here so they are kind of a secret.


Realysm42 said:
Interesting.

Do you know what format these will come in? I'd definitely buy higher grits for the edge pro.
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About higher grits. I have been playing with that for a while now and the short answer is that will be in the form of sprays on strops. While I like leather I think kreisler may be right about the surgical paper tape. I got some no-name tape locally and used it on EP tape blanks. Other than the adhesive from the tape smearing around I really like it. The tape does not scratch the bevel at all and has enough cushion so the abrasive doesn't cause random deeper scratches. I tried it down to .1 micron diamond and it polished beautifully. When it gets worn or contaminated you just swap it for fresh, which you can't do with leather or wood. I have some 3M tape arriving tomorrow, which kreisler says is the only tape to get. Here is his post describing it. The tape is available in 1", 2", and 3" widths.
 

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That top photo is interesting. Why would a 9K stone grab metal from the edge and scratch the bevel and a 4K does does not? Not doubting you, just trying to understand.

Regarding wood strops, I always sand mine before applying new compound so the are essentially new every time. I just move them across 150 or 220 grit sandpaper like I would if I was dressing a stone. About 30 seconds and done. It takes a while to wear through 1/4" of wood. When it gets too thin I just pry it off and glue down a new piece. I'm interested in trying the tape as well.

I'll give you a call this week about getting some 3x8 stones.
 
I think they all will catch the burr/fine edge of the apex and pull it between the stone and bevel, this photo is just of the 9k doing it. It is also more noticeable the finer the stone gets, probably because the bevel is getting more polished and the apex is getting thinner. Maybe the softer bond of the Matrix stones makes this more likely vs a harder bond? I haven't done any experiments with edge leading vs trailing with vitrified bond stones, it's on the list of things to do but is pretty far down that list.

I still need to try different woods, I just haven't yet. I don't have a compensator for my sharpener so the consistency of thickness using the polish tape holders and surgical tape is very appealing.

If you call or email using any of the contact info on my website you will get my wife. She is great for taking orders but doesn't give any technical info. My cell # is the same area code 637-4170. I can't always answer it but will return your call as soon as I can.

I thought I had done an announcement of my bench stones but forgot where, and just remembered. Here is the thread I started for them, probably a better place to post questions about them there vs here.
 
Thanks @Diemaker, that did the trick.

I cleaned the 2300 and 4000 on the plate with 240 carbide and then washed them. Did some more polishing (only edge trailing) and got some scratches again... Very odd.

So, I rewashed them (Didn't want to take them back to the plate again) and have learnt that if I want mirror edges, I'll just give the stones a quick wash between knives.
 
The finer the stones the fussier they are about keeping clean, same with strops. But the reward is a keener edge, not just a polished bevel.
 
Diemaker said:
The finer the stones the fussier they are about keeping clean, same with strops. But the reward is a keener edge, not just a polished bevel.
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I use a Nagura to clean / condition mine regularly between sharpening sessions and it works very well.
 
I recieved a 650 and a 1100 last week, plus the magnet, new tape blank and the al-oxide for the dressing. Haven't had time to use the new stones, but I finally got to dress my 4000 stone (and discovering that I don't own a 2300, I thought I did, guess that will be my next buy along with the Slide guide. This is getting expensive! 😄

Anyway, the 4000 looks quite different after the dressing. It used to have a shine, and with use it had picked up a lot of steel, will be interesting to see how it works now.
 
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