Emerson Knives

Everything on both sides of this debate has pretty much been said. Personally, I like the designs and they fit my hands beautifuly but I think they are too expensive for the materials used and the level of fit and finish. I understand the whole "tools, not pocket jewelry" philosophy, but they have close to "pocket jewelry" price tags.

I'm excited about the ZT/Emerson colaboration because I think it will be a great combination of materials, design, craftsmanship and value. It would have been 100% perfect if it hadn't been a tanto.
 
My guess is that even the Kershaw/Emerson imports will be built better and be of higher quality. Goes without saying that the ZT collab is going to bury the Emerson line. If you watch the Bladehq Kershaw interview about the Emerson collab he says numerous times that he thinks the cheaper Kershaw will get people into an Emerson eventually ( that's the conclusion I took away). Truth is people will start dumping their dumpy Emerson's to buy the cheaper Kershaws and Zt collabs

Well, that is certainly an interesting prediction, and frankly my bet is you are very wrong. Your previously stated "disdain" is clouding your judgement - if you were right about your assessment of Emerson knives, they wouldn't be wildly successful with zero advertising - but they are.
 
I own a half dozen or so.......the fit and finish is no where as bad as many say. All relative of course, but only an extreme perfection collector will be disappointed.

They break in over time and do get smooth over time, but not in a short time.

The blade play can always be eliminated but tightness bothers some so they won't be satisifed.

The steel is about perfect for not breaking or chipping...but still holds a good edge and easy to sharpen.

The only real downside of them being a user is the price. They are way over priced....but so are just about every brand some way or another.

Too each their own but imho emersons are good actual users...not such good collectors or for collectors who want perfection in cosmetics.
 
That's what is confusing to me. Not to besmirch Emerson, but I don't see how a ZT Emerson can not be of better fit and finish. It seems like it may really highlight the lack of F&F on real Emersons and put the company under even more scrutiny for its detractors.
My guess is that even the Kershaw/Emerson imports will be built better and be of higher quality. Goes without saying that the ZT collab is going to bury the Emerson line. If you watch the Bladehq Kershaw interview about the Emerson collab he says numerous times that he thinks the cheaper Kershaw will get people into an Emerson eventually ( that's the conclusion I took away). Truth is people will start dumping their dumpy Emerson's to buy the cheaper Kershaws and Zt collabs
 
I'm sure the livelihood of all the EKI employees is based on that price point. I guess it is just a different method of marketing. Just seems like it would be better for a company to stand behind their excellent quality rather than a name and the mystique/hype attached to it, but that's just my opinion and counts for little.[/QUOTE]

Actually, your opinion DOES matter. It's just as important as anyone else on this forum, except for some of the obvious dimwits that come along once in a while.

If you were Ernest Emerson, you started the company in your garage, never advertised, and could not keep up with demand for WHATEVER reason, simply because people liked your product, why in tarnation would you lower your price? That is not how the supply and demand model works.

People want your widget, you sell so many that people have a two year wait. Without advertising. That is the situation the man was in. Something must be good about what he had created. His widget was in high demand with NO marketing.

So he partnered, after careful consideration, with a well-established American company with the ultimate decision based on the honesty and increased production capability to meet the unrelenting demand for his product. With an emphasis on the word honesty, he mentioned it twice addressing members of this forum.

And as a result, his products will now be available at a lower price point, due to the increased manufacturing ability of the new partner. Who has a well-deserved reputation for producing high-quality items on its own right.

What more could you ask for? No problems there, my friend, with what the man has done up to this point.

Myself, I will continue to buy only EKI-produced knives. Because he deserves my money, as he did things the honest, American way of using your talent and craftsmanship to produce something that people actually wanted. And supported his family with what he has done.

The problem in this country right now is there are not enough Ernest Emersons in this country any longer. They used to be all over the place. Think WWII. He's a throwback.

I could not do what he has done, and I'll bet you could not do it, either.

If you can, I'll take a look at what you are doing and if it is good enough, I will buy it from you.

And I won't beat you up for paying $250 for something that will last me a lifetime, if you model can stand up to the proven performance of what his has.

So no whining. If you don't think it's worth what others do, hey, that's your decision, not theirs. You didn't earn their money, they did.

Some guys like heavy girls, whereas I like thinner ones. But I don't knock them for choosing a heavier gal, because they need someone, too. So that's cool all around.

Same thing brother.
 
Truth is people will start dumping their dumpy Emerson's to buy the cheaper Kershaws and Zt collabs

No they won't. As long as Emerson keeps his bread and butter folders exclusive to EKI, people will continue buying his knives. The ZT/Emerson collab is a tanto. The only tanto I like is the Roadhouse. That right there is enough for me to not buy one of those collabs. And last time I checked, the 8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, commander (excluding the Kershaw auto), Roadhouse, ETAK, Patriot, Bulldog, etc are not being produced by anyone else except for his own factory and those sell like hotcakes. I'll stick with my production Emersons.
 
I really do think the "fit 'n finish" matter is blown way out of proportion. I do think there have been periods of time where EKI was slack in that area, but all the recent models I've owned have been really quite excellent in that regard. The models using standoffs in place of the backspacer seem particularly well finished, and some Emerson fans have actually lamented the "refined" look on their trusty workhorse knife. My last couple of Emersons have come in perfectly centered with excellent early lockup. Further, the fact that they use double detents makes for a different, more controlled feel during manual deployment - not Sebenza hydraulic, but in that direction. Would I like EKI's to be less expensive? Of course, but I wouldn't want any less knife if that's what it took. Furthermore, resale is very solid, so unless buying at a inflated retail, they are fairly safe knives to buy.
 
I like Emersons. They lock up fine, have good designs...I think they make a great user pocket knife. Instead of going through the whole break in process I would suggest just taking it apart, cleaning it, and using the heck out of it.
 
Never advertised? he's had ads in Tactical Knives, Blade, numerous novels...
 
I'm sure the livelihood of all the EKI employees is based on that price point. I guess it is just a different method of marketing. Just seems like it would be better for a company to stand behind their excellent quality rather than a name and the mystique/hype attached to it, but that's just my opinion and counts for little.

Actually, your opinion DOES matter. It's just as important as anyone else on this forum, except for some of the obvious dimwits that come along once in a while.

If you were Ernest Emerson, you started the company in your garage, never advertised, and could not keep up with demand for WHATEVER reason, simply because people liked your product, why in tarnation would you lower your price? That is not how the supply and demand model works.

People want your widget, you sell so many that people have a two year wait. Without advertising. That is the situation the man was in. Something must be good about what he had created. His widget was in high demand with NO marketing.

So he partnered, after careful consideration, with a well-established American company with the ultimate decision based on the honesty and increased production capability to meet the unrelenting demand for his product. With an emphasis on the word honesty, he mentioned it twice addressing members of this forum.

And as a result, his products will now be available at a lower price point, due to the increased manufacturing ability of the new partner. Who has a well-deserved reputation for producing high-quality items on its own right.

What more could you ask for? No problems there, my friend, with what the man has done up to this point.

Myself, I will continue to buy only EKI-produced knives. Because he deserves my money, as he did things the honest, American way of using your talent and craftsmanship to produce something that people actually wanted. And supported his family with what he has done.

The problem in this country right now is there are not enough Ernest Emersons in this country any longer. They used to be all over the place. Think WWII. He's a throwback.

I could not do what he has done, and I'll bet you could not do it, either.

If you can, I'll take a look at what you are doing and if it is good enough, I will buy it from you.

And I won't beat you up for paying $250 for something that will last me a lifetime, if you model can stand up to the proven performance of what his has.

So no whining. If you don't think it's worth what others do, hey, that's your decision, not theirs. You didn't earn their money, they did.

Some guys like heavy girls, whereas I like thinner ones. But I don't knock them for choosing a heavier gal, because they need someone, too. So that's cool all around.

Same thing brother.[/QUOTE]

You don't think Emerson talking up "my knives were on the seals mission to kill bin laden" "I was in a fight!" stuff isn't marketing? It's direct marketing, viral marketing, but it's still marketing. I think the big complaint about Emersons is the quality you get for the money. I get they're a small company that does a lot of handwork on their knives, but really why? They've been around for this many years and not heavily invested in new equipment? They still use 154cm on $200 plus dollar knives, even then they could switch to the CPM variant of that steel and it would perform better across the board, cpm 154 at what they harden their 154cm at is much tougher. CPM 154 at a higher HRC is probably as tough as 154cm and will hold a better edge. It just seems lazy and complacent. The other part is about the chisel grinds, so they can be "easily sharpened in the field". Unless I need to do serious edge repair, I can get a traditional v ground edge back to being sharp with a coffee cup and a piece of cardboard. You couldn't really do serious edge repair anyway with the side of a rock anyway. It just seems like bad design and an arrogance about the design. They haven't changed their entire template of their knives in a decade, and a decade of innovation has made them look antiquated.
 
Actually, your opinion DOES matter. It's just as important as anyone else on this forum, except for some of the obvious dimwits that come along once in a while.

If you were Ernest Emerson, you started the company in your garage, never advertised, and could not keep up with demand for WHATEVER reason, simply because people liked your product, why in tarnation would you lower your price? That is not how the supply and demand model works.

People want your widget, you sell so many that people have a two year wait. Without advertising. That is the situation the man was in. Something must be good about what he had created. His widget was in high demand with NO marketing.

So he partnered, after careful consideration, with a well-established American company with the ultimate decision based on the honesty and increased production capability to meet the unrelenting demand for his product. With an emphasis on the word honesty, he mentioned it twice addressing members of this forum.

And as a result, his products will now be available at a lower price point, due to the increased manufacturing ability of the new partner. Who has a well-deserved reputation for producing high-quality items on its own right.

What more could you ask for? No problems there, my friend, with what the man has done up to this point.

Myself, I will continue to buy only EKI-produced knives. Because he deserves my money, as he did things the honest, American way of using your talent and craftsmanship to produce something that people actually wanted. And supported his family with what he has done.

The problem in this country right now is there are not enough Ernest Emersons in this country any longer. They used to be all over the place. Think WWII. He's a throwback.

I could not do what he has done, and I'll bet you could not do it, either.

If you can, I'll take a look at what you are doing and if it is good enough, I will buy it from you.

And I won't beat you up for paying $250 for something that will last me a lifetime, if you model can stand up to the proven performance of what his has.

So no whining. If you don't think it's worth what others do, hey, that's your decision, not theirs. You didn't earn their money, they did.

Some guys like heavy girls, whereas I like thinner ones. But I don't knock them for choosing a heavier gal, because they need someone, too. So that's cool all around.

Same thing brother.

You don't think Emerson talking up "my knives were on the seals mission to kill bin laden" "I was in a fight!" stuff isn't marketing? It's direct marketing, viral marketing, but it's still marketing. I think the big complaint about Emersons is the quality you get for the money. I get they're a small company that does a lot of handwork on their knives, but really why? They've been around for this many years and not heavily invested in new equipment? They still use 154cm on $200 plus dollar knives, even then they could switch to the CPM variant of that steel and it would perform better across the board, cpm 154 at what they harden their 154cm at is much tougher. CPM 154 at a higher HRC is probably as tough as 154cm and will hold a better edge. It just seems lazy and complacent. The other part is about the chisel grinds, so they can be "easily sharpened in the field". Unless I need to do serious edge repair, I can get a traditional v ground edge back to being sharp with a coffee cup and a piece of cardboard. You couldn't really do serious edge repair anyway with the side of a rock anyway. It just seems like bad design and an arrogance about the design. They haven't changed their entire template of their knives in a decade, and a decade of innovation has made them look antiquated. You say the thing about their not being enough people like him in this day. Their aren't. Those are the people who ran Ford and GM into the ground because they weren't smart enough or open enough to new ideas and realize "maybe we should make more small economical cars since there's a gas shortage" or "maybe gas guzzling SUVs aren't all we should be focusing our efforts on". Eventually, even if you're doing great now, you're going to get eaten alive in you stay stuck in a mindset and never go forward. Kai/Kershaw are always pushing what they can do, experimenting, testing new materials, even smaller company like Chris Reeve knives are always looking at if there's a better material or a better way to manufacture their knives. Emerson don't seem to be doing that.
 
That is literally the exact same argument that is being made against Emersons. Horribly overpriced for what you get, met with multiple excuses and justifications which never really validate the reason for price vs materials/f&f.

Again, I like these knives so I'm not hating on em. Just throwing some logic out there. I'm not a big CRK fan at all, but one could easily argue that the care that goes into crafting their knives justifies the price. Not enough to make me buy one over a cheaper knife with better steel/better lock, but then the same argument is applied to Emersons.

The demographic is what? Knife USERS? Military? LE? I am a knife user, as opposed to a collector, and logic tells me that my options are better tools at lower prices from other companies. The new ZT collaboration is a great example of what an Emerson production knife could and should be, at that price point. 40 bucks more nets me m390 and a stronger lock. Why was this not offered by EKI themselves?







Because those materials would cost more and improving the fit and finish of his knives would as well. Ernie would rather take that money and line his pockets :D
 
I've been in the same boat as the OP for a long time and I just can't get myself to finally try one out. Chisel grind? I know the reasoning behind it but again... Chisel grind? hehe....154CM on $200+ knives? They say the steel is great on it blah blahblah but for $200+? He uses titanium on the scales which I think is mostly gimmick for prestige when you can use steel which is stronger and can be skeletonized, only one that appeals to me is the CQC8.

I know that some people swear by them but no matter how many times I hear that it's a knife that is more function than form, but even so, (IMO)they should not be at those prices at all. Even if it performs better on the field, for what you get parts wise and the iffy F&F that's been parroted, it doesn't make sense to me and that's why I've passed on them.
 
So let's talk about the ZT collab for a minute. I think ZT gives you a hell of a knife for the $$$ spent. I am sure that this will be no different. The 0300, and 0200 are among my favorites. I wish that they hadn't one with a tanto, just not a fan. And I sure as hell wish that they wouldn't have used Elmax! Thats cost them quite enough already I think. I don't even want the slightest thing to do with it. So in this, I probably won't be owning one.
 
So let's talk about the ZT collab for a minute. I think ZT gives you a hell of a knife for the $$$ spent. I am sure that this will be no different. The 0300, and 0200 are among my favorites. I wish that they hadn't one with a tanto, just not a fan. And I sure as hell wish that they wouldn't have used Elmax! Thats cost them quite enough already I think. I don't even want the slightest thing to do with it. So in this, I probably won't be owning one.
I ordered the one with m390. Not into satin blades?

Because those materials would cost more and improving the fit and finish of his knives would as well. Ernie would rather take that money and line his pockets :D

That's what I'm saying here lol. People are heavy on the cognitive dissonance. They are arguing about the knife to justify the price without even mentioning the huge gap between materials/f&f/lock type and the price. Such a long established company should be improving their materials at the same price point as their profits increase. Clearly his profits are not suffering at all, yet he's not really giving his fans incentive to buy more.
 
How do people who do not own knife companies know more about that business than Ernie?

The internet is a magical place of knowing everything.

Just my $.02 on the situation Emersons are meant to be used and are targeted at a specific group of people who like Emersons. Not everyone has to understand the draw of his knives as long as his niche group of loyal customers keeps buying them. Honestly I think his partnership with Kershaw/ZT is only going to grow his business because his net is only getting cast wider at this point.
 
How do people who do not own knife companies know more about that business than Ernie?

Comparison. Common sense and logic? Many people know the cost of materials, the length of time EKI has been in business. The wait time on products shows obvious profit versus materials and time. Maybe I'm oversimplifying. Maybe you are, and everyone else. The bottom line is that other companies, small and large, offer more for less. Emerson is not unique in that difference, but is one of the most noticeable.
 
That's what I'm saying here lol. People are heavy on the cognitive dissonance. They are arguing about the knife to justify the price without even mentioning the huge gap between materials/f&f/lock type and the price. Such a long established company should be improving their materials at the same price point as their profits increase. Clearly his profits are not suffering at all, yet he's not really giving his fans incentive to buy more.

Emerson isn't giving an incentive to buy more because he won't work with different materials? That's news to me because I have only bought Emerson this past year and am contemplating buying a Patriot as my next knife. I don't pay attention to many other brand these days. And I was a huge steel junkie and all that jazz at one point. Hell, one of my favorite knives before I bought my first Emerson was the Spyderco Gayle Bradley. Emerson has kicked that knife out of my pocket and that was one knife I was sure would never sit on my dresser and there it is to this day collecting dust.
 
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