Emerson Knives

[Insipid Moniker]

Just to jump in on two points: A. The price you pay for an Emerso is very high for what you get. This is one of my main problems with the company and why I don't purchase more of them. B. Emerson sells pretty mucb every single knife they make. If I was in his shoes there is no way I would lower my prices until I saw a significant shift in demand.

Basically, from a value perspective they're significantly overpriced. From a business perspective? They might actually be a little underpriced. I'll stay away from Emerson due to the price, but I have no illusion that the prices will come down.

 

[RemyKaze]

Emerson isn't giving an incentive to buy more because he won't work with different materials? That's news to me because I have only bought Emerson this past year and am contemplating buying a Patriot as my next knife. I don't pay attention to many other brand these days. And I was a huge steel junkie and all that jazz at one point. Hell, one of my favorite knives before I bought my first Emerson was the Spyderco Gayle Bradley. Emerson has kicked that knife out of my pocket and that was one knife I was sure would never sit on my dresser and there it is to this day collecting dust.

Again, I like Emersons. I do. I have no issue with them and I love 154CM. I am talking about PRICE VERSUS MATERIALS. What justifies the price???

I had no dogs in this, just a passing interest in the thread, but this stubbornness about not acknowledging the price versus what is being offered kinda blows my mind. I'm one of those folks that likes more bang for their buck. I'm not a steel snob; I simply believes $200+ is worth better materials. ZT agrees, Spyderco and Benchmade agree, and so do many other companies, small and large.

 

[Smokinape]

Comparison. Common sense and logic? Many people know the cost of materials, the length of time EKI has been in business. The wait time on products shows obvious profit versus materials and time. Maybe I'm oversimplifying. Maybe you are, and everyone else. The bottom line is that other companies, small and large, offer more for less. Emerson is not unique in that difference, but is one of the most noticeable.

So you think Emerson made a partnership that will destroy his company? I have a feeling this wasnt a whimsical decision and Emerson has more information then average knife forum people...

 

[jmclfrsh]

fzla,

You make some very good points, and I too am not a fan of the chisel grind. A buddy who turned me on to knives has a CQC7, and can never get it sharp.

My CQC8, however, was easy to take to a local knife shop and have a proper v grind placed on it, and I definitely prefer it this way, absolutely. And I ground off the hump with a belt sander to make it look like a "Super Journeyman" as one does not exist.

So modifications have been made to mine to get it to just how I like it, and I suppose it's more personal to me now. That is probably why I prefer it over all my other knives, as they are stock with the exception of clip swapping/addition I usually do on them. This one is different than when I bought it. Do the same with all my motorcycles, as bike guys generally do.

I totally agree with your point about the car companies, too. Today's highest-upper management is more focused on short-term gains, to earn their bonuses, at the expense of the company overall. Then they move on, leaving a lesser company in its place. Totally wrong.

So I'm not backpedalling, I just have changed my perspective a little bit with what you said, especially when one considers that Chris Reeve also started out the same way, and look at what he and Mary have built. He has not only changed with the times but pushed the envelope, and as a result his knives command full price everywhere, and they are twice as much as most other makers.

So several points well taken.

But I do still very much like my two Emersons for what they are, essentially the same knife with one just smaller for when I'm on the motorcycle.

And the wave innovation is pretty cool, IMO. If one has just viewed them and never owned one, you may never "get it" unless you do.

Even then it is not some's cup of tea, but it is mine. So each our own, right?

 

[RemyKaze]

So you think Emerson made a partnership that will destroy his company? I have a feeling this wasnt a whimsical decision and Emerson has more information then average knife forum people...

I actually think it would allow him to lower prices on his own models and increase production. Nothing but a good thing. I can't say whether or not he will take advantage of the unique situation to up the ante. If he continues to offer them at the same price point, I do foresee a larger loss of potential customers who will simply buy a Kershaw or ZT as their need demands. Already in this thread there are customers who are interested but do not want to buy because the materials don't justify the cost to them, including the OP. Yes, there are many Emerson fans who will buy, but why block potential business?

 

[gooeytek]

I only started to look at Emersons about 3 years ago, and only because of a conversation I had with a really popular knifemaker who said that the only production knife he'd carry was a CQC7. Imagine my reaction when i heard this coming from someone who could make any type of folder he wanted. That's what piqued my interest and after handling as many Emersons as I could, I found that there were only a few I didn't like. Compared to Spydercos, Kershaws, ZTs, and Benchmades, where I can count with one hand what models I like from them despite their huge selections, I have about 8 Emersons. Hell, I've only ever had one Benchmade. Probably gonna pull the trigger on that ZT collab too.

 

[Stays Sharp]

So Emerson decided to have a direct competitor ZT (as direct as can be: tactical hard use frame/liner lock folders) build knives for him with updated parts like better steel and people can't assume that it may be a bad idea or even assume that he's conceding his company's limitations? I'm sure he knows his company more than the average forumite but that doesn't make him immune to making a mistake either. I do think that this move collabing with them will make him money along with the Kershaw versions, but this makes me wonder why he couldn't invest in his own people and grow his own line instead. I know that he's doing what he's comfortable with so more power to him and he must have a good reason to go with ZT, hope its not a sign that his own company struggling that we dont know about.

 

[Stays Sharp]

^^^
Again, in the context of ZT being a direct competitor. Or at least was one.

 

[amflud]

How about that?

I've never owned or even handled an Emerson. I do like that they're a small operation and that they're 100% made in the USA, but I've always been turned off by their designs and price. I'll be honest, the concerns that others have had with fit and finish have kept me away too. My preference for folders is more towards blades that don't have thumbstuds or disks. I just don't like things sticking out from the side of my blades.

This thread got me to looking at the different Emerson models, and I think I found a couple designs that I actually like. The Traveler and the Endeavor. Well, I've found my next folder. I just need to figure out which size I want.

Thanks guys!

 

[cncpro11]

Did I mention how much I love the 154 cm chisel ground edge?
Soooo easy to sharpen and holds a good working edge. I keep the angle right at 25 degrees and other than strop once a week, I put the stones to it maybe every 4 weeks.

As you can see, this knife gets no love from me, and yes it is time to touch up the blade.


Poor centering and weak liner lock?
Not on this ultra smooth 8 year old Commander.




The 2013 Commander that I gave my father for Christmas is perfect in every way and he loves it.

 

[steveg30]

The best working man's knife in the world.

 

[Matador]

Now he can focus more on his customs which go for mad money!

 

[Officer's Match]

How about that?

I've never owned or even handled an Emerson. I do like that they're a small operation and that they're 100% made in the USA, but I've always been turned off by their designs and price. I'll be honest, the concerns that others have had with fit and finish have kept me away too. My preference for folders is more towards blades that don't have thumbstuds or disks. I just don't like things sticking out from the side of my blades.

This thread got me to looking at the different Emerson models, and I think I found a couple designs that I actually like. The Traveler and the Endeavor. Well, I've found my next folder. I just need to figure out which size I want.

Thanks guys!

Find a CQC-10 - trust me on this one. I am extremely fond of the CQC-10 and have easily used that series the most of any knife period, not just other EKI's. Best ergo's of a company known for great ergo's, and super versatile blade, just the right size for carry. I ended up convexing (still chisel though) the edge on my combo black one and it is a demon.

 

[cncpro11]

It's about time we seen some pics in this thread!

 

[adamg01]

The Horseman is on my short list. The advertising does remind me of Sig Sauer's marketing but the designs look excellent and I like the steel.

 

[cncpro11]

Same thing brother.
You don't think Emerson talking up "my knives were on the seals mission to kill bin laden" "I was in a fight!" stuff isn't marketing? It's direct marketing, viral marketing, but it's still marketing.

The thing is, he didn't have to pay for that marketing. He says all the time that he doesn't have a marketing budget, but who in their right mind wouldn't accept a bit of free advertising?

I am a machinist by trade and I have made parts for M1 tanks, Apache helicopters, and Humvees and I brag on that every chance I get.

He would be stupid not to brag that his knives were on that mission, especially when one of them ( CQC-7 ) sold for over $30,000!

 

[dsimmons]

So Emerson decided to have a direct competitor ZT (as direct as can be: tactical hard use frame/liner lock folders) build knives for him with updated parts like better steel and people can't assume that it may be a bad idea or even assume that he's conceding his company's limitations?

Is Rick Hinderer losing money over Kershaw making cheap versions of his knives? I have a $35 Thermite sitting on my desk right now. Looks like an XM18 that's sitting upright, complete with spanto blade. How about that ZT 0560? Did that cut into Hinderer's custom sales Not bloody likely. This collaboration was the best thing to ever happen for Hinderer. Same for Ken Onion and his work with Kershaw. It will continue being positive for anyone, Emerson included.

What limitations are you talking about? The ones Emerson himself has mentioned before about not being able to keep up with the demand for his product? That's about the only limitation I'm aware of.

but this makes me wonder why he couldn't invest in his own people and grow his own line instead. I know that he's doing what he's comfortable with so more power to him and he must have a good reason to go with ZT, hope its not a sign that his own company struggling that we dont know about.

So much facepalm...

Yes, Emerson is struggling... to fill all the orders they have coming in.

It seems like nobody here gets it. You're all acting like Kershaw is taking over Emerson or something. They're not. Emerson is growing his brand through a production partnership. Why do you think the knives say "Emerson Knife Designs" on the logo and not "Kershaw"? By partnering with Kershaw he's skipping the BS parts of expansion. He doesn't have to deal with import/export law, he doesn't have to deal with finding a contractor that can work to his quality standard, he doesn't have to deal with any of the crap. That's all handled for him. All he has to do is hand Kershaw a design and they take it from there. It's a genius move on his part. He gets to expand his line without ANY capital outlay. None. In fact, he's getting PAID to grow his brand.

If you're a business owner there's nothing better.

As for the ZT's, they're no different than any other ZT's designed by a name designer. That's what ZT does. That's what Kershaw does. It's a good thing for Kershaw, for the designers, and for us.

 

[amflud]

Find a CQC-10 - trust me on this one. I am extremely fond of the CQC-10 and have easily used that series the most of any knife period, not just other EKI's. Best ergo's of a company known for great ergo's, and super versatile blade, just the right size for carry. I ended up convexing (still chisel though) the edge on my combo black one and it is a demon.

Those are some great pics, thanks for posting!

I looked at that model, and now I realize that I should've mentioned that I don't like chisel grinds either. Pretty much every feature that makes an Emerson knife what it is. I'm really liking the Traveler and Endeavor, though. One of those will definitely be my next folder.

 

[amflud]

Wait a minute. I'm looking at the CQC-10 again and the one I see is ground on both sides. This one has also been added to the short list.

Thanks, Officer's Match!

 

[Stays Sharp]

Is Rick Hinderer losing money over Kershaw making cheap versions of his knives? I have a $35 Thermite sitting on my desk right now. Looks like an XM18 that's sitting upright, complete with spanto blade. How about that ZT 0560? Did that cut into Hinderer's custom sales Not bloody likely. This collaboration was the best thing to ever happen for Hinderer. Same for Ken Onion and his work with Kershaw. It will continue being positive for anyone, Emerson included.

What limitations are you talking about? The ones Emerson himself has mentioned before about not being able to keep up with the demand for his product? That's about the only limitation I'm aware of.



So much facepalm...

Yes, Emerson is struggling... to fill all the orders they have coming in.

It seems like nobody here gets it. You're all acting like Kershaw is taking over Emerson or something. They're not. Emerson is growing his brand through a production partnership. Why do you think the knives say "Emerson Knife Designs" on the logo and not "Kershaw"? By partnering with Kershaw he's skipping the BS parts of expansion. He doesn't have to deal with import/export law, he doesn't have to deal with finding a contractor that can work to his quality standard, he doesn't have to deal with any of the crap. That's all handled for him. All he has to do is hand Kershaw a design and they take it from there. It's a genius move on his part. He gets to expand his line without ANY capital outlay. None. In fact, he's getting PAID to grow his brand.

If you're a business owner there's nothing better.

As for the ZT's, they're no different than any other ZT's designed by a name designer. That's what ZT does. That's what Kershaw does. It's a good thing for Kershaw, for the designers, and for us.

Whoa, so defensive there. My thoughts on the subject stand and I do wish Emerson well. You can facepalm that till your face gets red. Youre not schooling me on anything I dont already know. Derr Hinderer's collab was a success derrderr, I said that it will make Emerson money so dont get bent all out of shape citing other collaborator's success when I already said as much... but compare and contrast further, are we now equating Emerson's production knife company that directly competes with ZT, Benchmade, Spyderco, etc to a midtech maker and Ken Onion, a custom maker? Yeah sure Emerson's a custom maker too, well they all are. You say it saves Emerson from the grief of going to China himself etc and repeating myself again, I said Emerson will do what he's comfortable with. Reading is fundamental. Thats of course assuming that you entire post was strictly directed at me since you quoted it. I didn't know that anyone thought ZT was taking over until you said it. One way of putting it though, Emerson's lineup are still stuck in 1995 and he's deffering updated knives of his with better materials and quality (ZTs reputation) to a direct competitor. Im sorry that it strikes some people as unusual regardless of the positives it may bring. It also enhances the notion by some that Emersons are overpriced for what you get. For $250, a commin Emerson pricepoint hou can now have an M390blade designed by him wave and all. And why cant he keep up with demand? His knives arent always sold out because they are so hot, its because of limitations that he choses to have.