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Glad to help. I absolutely love the 10's grip and find it completely unique in all Emerson designs (have/had a bunch). I also believe this was once a HK branded style IIRC.
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Emerson Knives
- Thread starter L2bravo
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Glad to help. I absolutely love the 10's grip and find it completely unique in all Emerson designs (have/had a bunch). I also believe this was once a HK branded style IIRC.
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I will admit, owning high-end knives does make me feel good.I own four emersons. I like them okay, but they are just knives. Decent materials, design and assembly, but nothing great. Just G10 and average steel. Like half the knives on the market.
So what is it that really attracts people to these knives? As I have brilliantly (<< joking) stated before about Striders, CRKs and Emerson, its not the knife itself that makes people buy one, but how it makes them feel.
Ernest Emerson acknowledged as much in a recent thread. He noted that his knives represent "a lifestyle that people identify with" and "the brand itself becomes a symbol of status much as wearing a Rolex watch became the symbol of personal success." He said that "[O]ver the years, . . . the name Emerson developed this cache . . . ." Link.
So lets keep it real here, as I have done with other "status symbol" knives. Almost no one on Bladeforums uses their Emerson or their Strider deep behind enemy lines in a covert search and destroy mission. No one here has had to sharpen their Emerson on a rock while leading an assault team on the Kremlin. The guys who buy and use these knives - at least the guys on Bladeforums who buy them - work at Home Depot and drive a Camry. They buy Emersons to feel good. And that's it. When they cut their ham and cheese sandwich while on a break at work, they feel good doing it. But a Delica or whatever would cut it just fine too. So maybe its not the performance that attracts them. It's something else.
So my thesis is that guys buy these knives to feel good, and they try to justify it by saying "I can sharpen the chisel ground soft steel on a rock" and all of that kind of stuff. "I can use it hard and it never let me down". Well, a $30 Buck 110 will never let you down either. But Buck 110's aren't tacticool, and they
don't represent "a lifestyle that people identify with" and a "status symbol", to use Ernie Emerson's words.
There is nothing whatsoever wrong with buying and using and loving a knife because it makes you feel good. I do it every single day. But its not the soft steel or the waved shape feature that sells the knife knife. Its the way the knife makes you feel. And when a guy says "you either get it or you don't", that's really what he is talking about.
colubrid
Gold Member
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Curious..which model Spyderco are you referring to?
Emerson has no competitors. Emerson is Emerson in the same way that Harley is Harley, although obviously to a lower degree. There are Emerson guys same as there are Benchmade guys and Spyderco guys. They have incredibly high brand loyalty. Nobody that buys Emersons is going to stop buying Emersons because Ernie designed some blades for other companies.
That's nice. Does it say "Emerson Knives" on the blade? No? Then what's your point? It's not as if ZT's going to cut into Emerson sales and even if they do... guess what? Emerson still gets money.
This is the most twisted non-logic I've ever read in my life. "He only sells a lot of knives because he doesn't make as many as he could."
Whu...da...fuuu...?
Anyway, the point is that there are no negatives here for Emerson. None whatsoever. Their sales will not be undercut. Emerson expands their production without capital outlay, and the core business stays the exact same way it is. There is no downside for Emerson, at all, anywhere.
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Harleys sell on brand name, bud. Not saying they're bad bikes, quite the opposite actually. But brand name sells more of them than design or build. Same with Emersons. This concept actually fits well with brand loyalty for whatever reason, because once you buy one of either, it becomes yours, becomes what you know and like. It can be applied to any brand, but again the issue is over inflation of price versus what you get. I don't think one person has responded to that with any evidence that the price is warranted. So far people have just ignored the statement though I have brought it up multiple times for the sake of curiosity. I really do want a logical answer, because I too like the knives that Emerson produces, but I do not feel I am getting my money's worth. I never buy for the sake of a brand.
Also, I think they do have Emerson on the blade as well as ZT and/or Kershaw.
Novels aren't advertisements and I'd love to see an example of an Emerson advertisement in a recent periodical.
I don't understand why everyone is losing their minds over the Kershaw/ZT collaboration. Its not like this is a new concept for him. There was the Kershaw Auto commander. All the Protech autos. The Gerber Emerson Alliance. Guess what, those didn't put him out of business and they have been around for a while. These threads get to be old after a while. If you don't want to pay the price and its not worth it for your taste then don't, but if you have never owned one don't post speculations on the quality, performance, and fit and finish if you have no way of knowing what they are. This crap happens to all brands CRK, Benchmade, EKI, on and on....Don't like it don't buy, never owned don't make crap up about it lol. Anyway ill throw a picture into the mix as well.
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Exactly what sort of evidence do you want?
If you don't agree with the price, then don't buy them. If you do agree with the price, then do buy them.
It ain't rocket science but it does make perfect sense.
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While I appreciate you telling me to use logic to dictate whether or not I buy something, I am already doing so. The sort of proof I want is solid evidence that there is something beyond the name that makes those materials, with that level of quality, sell for that price point.
I can give an example. Spyderco sells sprint runs at a higher price because they are both limited and made of exotic materials, despite being the exact same build. That, to most people, is a justification for a higher price tag. Why are Emerson's priced so high for the materials? This still hasn't been answered, except with comments akin to "I drive a Ford...cause it's a Ford".
I just don't see the point of some people acting as if others are too dense to get it because they are questioning cost versus what is put into the knife.
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- Only Emerson knows what it costs to run his shop and make a profit. I doubt you'll get a better answer than that. They're not as large as Spyderco and most likely doesn't benefit from the same economies of scale. I'm a huge fan of Emerson knives, but I'll be the first to tell you that they are priced much higher than competitors for the same or lesser materials. I bought all of my Emersons before the last price hike and the 2012 models I purchased were at a significant discount.
You don't inflate demand by limiting production. If that was the case I'd make three knives and charge fifty grand for each one. I can't do that, because I don't have a very well established brand like Emerson does.
Which was kind of why I chose Harley as the example. If you'll read Mr. Emerson's post over in the Emerson forum you'll note that he makes the comparison himself, seeing Emerson as a "lifestyle brand". He's not wrong. Harleys aren't crap, but everyone that rides a Victory will tell you incessantly that you bought overpriced crap. Doesn't matter. It's a Harley. People want the name. Same with Emerson. Who is Strider outside the confines of knife forums? Nobody. Hogue? Same. Emerson? "Hey, my buddy Kevin carried an Emerson into Afghanistan with him..."
And nobody will. Also, nobody will tell you that a Tenacious is worth it. Or a Sebenza. Or a Code 4. Or a Buck 110. In fact, you'll have people ready to take a massive brown poo all over whatever knife you care to talk about and these people are far more likely to show up than the fans are because they outnumber the fans by a thousandfold. There's always something with better specs, there's always something with a better steel, or a better grind, or a better whatever.
What few here seem to understand, or more likely ADMIT, is that value is not defined by specs. If it were there would be one maker, or all makers would use the exact same components at all price points. You can't determine the worthiness of a knife, or anything, based purely on what it's made out of or how amazingly accurate the parts fit together. Everything can be worth far more than the sum of its parts, and Emersons are just that to many people.
It says "Emerson Designs", not Emerson Knives. It is a completely different brand with a completely different logo. The differentiation is apparent, and very important.
It doesn't matter why someone buys what they do. Not all of us live our lives searching for the next statistically better piece of gear. We actually buy things we LIKE rather than what some twit on the internet THINKS we should buy because the steel has one more point of molybdenum and the G10 is of a higher quality from a different factory in the same city. Whether you like it or not is utterly irrelevant.
Asking someone to justify their opinion without offering anything in return is the pinnacle of internet douchebaggery.
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I'm not asking anyone to justify their opinion. I'm saying there is no logical reason presented for those knives to cost that much. And your holier than thou attitude is definitely unnecessary. I don't think I've really said anything to warrant implying that I'm a douchebag because I want a simple answer to a simple question, which you can't seem to answer either.
YES, I get that people buy what they like, regardless of price. I do the same thing. However, is there any factual evidence to support that +$200 price? Like say, cost of operation, or some special heat treatment, or superb fit and finish, or an unbreakable bomb proof super slick action? I mean, you're just being willfully ignorant and avoiding the question. There is a reason, or people wouldn't be buying them. If you can't think of a single reason for that price tag, it is just a little worrisome. This question really isn't as difficult as people are making it. I will give another example. I think my Ritter Griptilian is worth the price I paid because the steel holds an edge for days and days of hard work, the Axis lock is smooth as butter, and the blade shape is pleasing to the eye. What makes Emersons worth more?
As for presenting justification of my own opinion, supported by fact, there are many other companies that use g10 and 154CM, with various locks, or with a better steel instead, for half the price or less than an Emerson. Many people are knowledgeable about knives; they know what they are buying, and what kind of price point it can be had at in a competitive market. Do you really want me to go see how many liner locks with g10 and 154CM I can pull up on Google?
Anyway, chill out with the insults, man. It's just a friendly conversation.
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Of course you can. If he chooses not to produce a certain model (e.g. an HD-7 or Commander), then produces that model after all the hype peaks, he's able to charge a premium for that particular model, when he releases a limited number of pieces. Supply and demand. It's, essentially, a micro-model for the theory of Demand-Pull Inflation.
If he chooses not to produce a certain model based on a complete gamble that the secondary market will keep interest in his product afloat that's what you call a piss-poor business decision. The fact that you had to go to such a ludicrous example shows how utterly ridiculous the notion is in the first place.
Emerson could easily expand to five times the size, jack prices through the roof, and STILL move more product simply on name value alone. That he chooses not to do so says to me that he has much better business sense than anyone here. He is comfortable with the size of his business. If he doesn't want to grow, what business is it of ours?
The monetary value of an item is simply based on how much one is willing to pay for it. Manufacturers will price a product on what the market will bear, and they will also attempt to estimate how many items they can produce without oversaturating their market. A larger company can buy and store larger quantities of bulk material for production, spread man-hours out and leverage distribution costs to reduce their bottom line and increase profitability. It wouldn't surprise me much if some 'bargain' tacticool knives, (even with what could be considered by some people competetive or superior fit, finish, material and construction), are priced UP, to fit a market niche, and spread the monetary love out for marketing and design, and losses from non-selling product. Hence the ever bigger, better newer, super-steel-endorsed-by the 'hero du jour' marketing. The market for well crafted 'hard use' folders is better than it has ever been, and with internet sales and to-your-door delivery, gratification is almost instant. Emerson knives are what they are. They are neither overpriced nor underpriced. If one looks hard enough or is a clever trader, bargains can be had. Since they are one of the 'founding fathers' of the amazingly exploding 'tactical' folder market, I doubt their sales popularity will dry up any time soon. I have more knives than I will ever need (sacrilege!), but I miss the CQC7 I sold to someone who needed it more than me. I may get another some day, but I doubt I'll cry over the price.