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*edited to adjust my tone 
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emerson quality
- Thread starter metacarpels
- Start date
Kampfjaeger -- I appreciate where you're coming from. I admire your efforts to keep things civilized. However, I want to respond to one or two things you said in your posts.
In the long post with detailed responses to several other posters, in your comments to El Cid, you indicated that you've never looked at Outdoor Edge knives, or some other low cost knives. IMO, associating the word "knock-off" automatically to a knife made in Taiwan, is an attitude that is more out of touch with reality than "expecting" to have to check an expensive knife every day to make sure it isn't falling apart.
The OE Magna is a collaboration knife, based on a design by Kit Carson, one of the more highly regarded custom makers. It is primarily manufactured by CNC, the same process that CRK uses. The fit and finish on mine was perfect, except for a scratch that shouldn't have been there. Too small to send it back, but disappointing, tho MSRP under $100. I have read dozens of threads about poor EK quality problems, in addition to this one. In many, forumites checking knives at B&M stores mention the need to handle as many as 5 or even more copies to find one that meets minimal standards. I can tell you this, that if I were forced to take a Magna or a Commander into the wilderness w/out maintenance tools, I'd choose the Magna every time. It isn't just a good quality knife for its price, it is a good quality knife. Period.
When I first came to the forums, my two dream knives were the Commander and the MT LCC. I've bought a Sebenza -- another knife designed to be taken apart and maintained by the user -- and for some reason the LCC isn't quite such a goal to me. As I think you said, you don't find many negative comments on it here. But, I have to tell you, before I'd been here a month, I'd already dropped the Commander from my wish list. I still love the looks, but think too highly of my money to "buy a pig in a poke."
I have grown to understand the mystique which surrounds the Sebenza. It is based primarily, maybe solely, upon quality. It ain't very pretty, it isn't a particularly tactical shape. But many who buy Sebenzas simply sell all their other knives, because they realize they've found a knife that exceeded their quality expectations, and they know that it will last them a lifetime, with minimal maintenance.
Emerson knives seem to have a somewhat similar mystique. But honestly, from all I have been able to learn/understand, it seems to be based solely upon the personality of Ernest Emerson. It may also be partly based upon what I perceive to be somewhat false advertizing, "The #1 'hard use' knife." Like much advertising copy, it isn't very explicit. Nobody knows exactly what that means. But, I keep reading all the time about knives that people have put to hard use, without a daily need to be sure it won't fall apart that day. Actually, it sounds like the ad should belong to CRK. Their knives are constantly put to hard use, with no reported problems. Spark uses his as a box cutter daily, has for many moons. I'll betcha that a busy man like Spark wouldn't be using any knife known to come apart frequently, unless it is glued together.
I have over 20 CRKT knives. A screw loosened on one of them a week or so. I was so surprised, I couldn't believe it. Though I only paid about $35 for it, no other CRKT knife has had any such problems, including the M16 I carried daily for 18 months. I'm terrible about doing maintenance appropriately. But, when I've done the maintenance needed, even if late, there has never been any loose screws or any problem. The thumb stud is maybe a shade lighter on top than when new. There are extremely faint marks where the thumb studs -- which serve as the stop pins on the M16 -- strike the end of the handle. You have to look hard for them. I've cycled that knife thousands of times. You have to look very hard to see any sign of use on it. Believe I paid either $48 or $58 for it. It is a good quality knife. The price isn't relevant in determining that. But, if it were, a poor quality knife that costs a lot of money is an insult to the consumer. It is a flagrant disregard of the customer's satisfaction and potential future consumerism.
Almost done here. You said one other thing I want to comment on. Have nearly forgotten it. Oh -- you repeatedly stated that EK is in the throes of growth, still a small company, etc. Outdoor Edge is much smaller. It's EdgeTech division has only delivered 3 knives at this point in time. Yet all 3 have gotten nothing but rave reviews for their quality. The Impulse -- derived from Darrel Ralph's custom Krait -- is, IMO, probably the most stylish/classy form of any of the manufactured tactical knives. I think it probably hasn't sold very well mainly because it looks so cool it is hard to believe that it is a solid, serious knife. But, like all DDR's designs, it is designed for function first. So, the size of a company has nothing to do with quality, IMHO. What is important, maybe the only thing really, is a determination to put out a quality product that will please the customers and make them proud to own it. I don't think EK has that determination. I don't think they really give a rat's a&% for the customer. They rely on good looking designs and this weird mystique about EE.
I'm not a fan, but have you checked out the Strider Knives? From what I hear, they're all that EK says they're trying to build. Again, am very glad you were amongst the fortunate few who got a really good copy of the Commander out of the box.
In the long post with detailed responses to several other posters, in your comments to El Cid, you indicated that you've never looked at Outdoor Edge knives, or some other low cost knives. IMO, associating the word "knock-off" automatically to a knife made in Taiwan, is an attitude that is more out of touch with reality than "expecting" to have to check an expensive knife every day to make sure it isn't falling apart.
The OE Magna is a collaboration knife, based on a design by Kit Carson, one of the more highly regarded custom makers. It is primarily manufactured by CNC, the same process that CRK uses. The fit and finish on mine was perfect, except for a scratch that shouldn't have been there. Too small to send it back, but disappointing, tho MSRP under $100. I have read dozens of threads about poor EK quality problems, in addition to this one. In many, forumites checking knives at B&M stores mention the need to handle as many as 5 or even more copies to find one that meets minimal standards. I can tell you this, that if I were forced to take a Magna or a Commander into the wilderness w/out maintenance tools, I'd choose the Magna every time. It isn't just a good quality knife for its price, it is a good quality knife. Period.
When I first came to the forums, my two dream knives were the Commander and the MT LCC. I've bought a Sebenza -- another knife designed to be taken apart and maintained by the user -- and for some reason the LCC isn't quite such a goal to me. As I think you said, you don't find many negative comments on it here. But, I have to tell you, before I'd been here a month, I'd already dropped the Commander from my wish list. I still love the looks, but think too highly of my money to "buy a pig in a poke."
I have grown to understand the mystique which surrounds the Sebenza. It is based primarily, maybe solely, upon quality. It ain't very pretty, it isn't a particularly tactical shape. But many who buy Sebenzas simply sell all their other knives, because they realize they've found a knife that exceeded their quality expectations, and they know that it will last them a lifetime, with minimal maintenance.
Emerson knives seem to have a somewhat similar mystique. But honestly, from all I have been able to learn/understand, it seems to be based solely upon the personality of Ernest Emerson. It may also be partly based upon what I perceive to be somewhat false advertizing, "The #1 'hard use' knife." Like much advertising copy, it isn't very explicit. Nobody knows exactly what that means. But, I keep reading all the time about knives that people have put to hard use, without a daily need to be sure it won't fall apart that day. Actually, it sounds like the ad should belong to CRK. Their knives are constantly put to hard use, with no reported problems. Spark uses his as a box cutter daily, has for many moons. I'll betcha that a busy man like Spark wouldn't be using any knife known to come apart frequently, unless it is glued together.
I have over 20 CRKT knives. A screw loosened on one of them a week or so. I was so surprised, I couldn't believe it. Though I only paid about $35 for it, no other CRKT knife has had any such problems, including the M16 I carried daily for 18 months. I'm terrible about doing maintenance appropriately. But, when I've done the maintenance needed, even if late, there has never been any loose screws or any problem. The thumb stud is maybe a shade lighter on top than when new. There are extremely faint marks where the thumb studs -- which serve as the stop pins on the M16 -- strike the end of the handle. You have to look hard for them. I've cycled that knife thousands of times. You have to look very hard to see any sign of use on it. Believe I paid either $48 or $58 for it. It is a good quality knife. The price isn't relevant in determining that. But, if it were, a poor quality knife that costs a lot of money is an insult to the consumer. It is a flagrant disregard of the customer's satisfaction and potential future consumerism.
Almost done here. You said one other thing I want to comment on. Have nearly forgotten it. Oh -- you repeatedly stated that EK is in the throes of growth, still a small company, etc. Outdoor Edge is much smaller. It's EdgeTech division has only delivered 3 knives at this point in time. Yet all 3 have gotten nothing but rave reviews for their quality. The Impulse -- derived from Darrel Ralph's custom Krait -- is, IMO, probably the most stylish/classy form of any of the manufactured tactical knives. I think it probably hasn't sold very well mainly because it looks so cool it is hard to believe that it is a solid, serious knife. But, like all DDR's designs, it is designed for function first. So, the size of a company has nothing to do with quality, IMHO. What is important, maybe the only thing really, is a determination to put out a quality product that will please the customers and make them proud to own it. I don't think EK has that determination. I don't think they really give a rat's a&% for the customer. They rely on good looking designs and this weird mystique about EE.
I'm not a fan, but have you checked out the Strider Knives? From what I hear, they're all that EK says they're trying to build. Again, am very glad you were amongst the fortunate few who got a really good copy of the Commander out of the box.
- Joined
- May 21, 2001
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- 1,668
<strong>Bugs3x</strong>...
Thank you very much for such a detailed and thoughtful response to my posts. Sometimes things can and do get a little heated here as people vent their frustrations. So, it is nice to see this thread heading back in a more civil direction. If I have insulted anyone here as a result of something I have said, I'd like to apologise.
I didn't go back and reread my old post where I mentioned my lack of familiarity with Outdoor Edge Knives. But from what I read in your post, though, it seems that I may have inadvertantly grouped them in with "cheap knock-offs" from Taiwan, etc. First of all, I never meant to have it come across that way. I simply don't know anything about them. My comment about the "cheap knock-offs" is really born out of seeing poorly made (IMHO) garbage knives that one can find often enough in surplus stores and similar places. For me to have come across as making a broad statement that inexpensive knives are cheap knives is a disservice to some excellent knifemakers out there. I certainly never meant to say anything of the sort, but if I came across that way... I was wrong. Thank you for the education about the OE Magna. I will certainly look into Kit Carson's work. When you mentioned that KC made them, I thought I remembered some posts from him (and some concerning him) elsewhere in these forums. And I vaguely remember coming away with the impression that he was well thought of.
I haven't yet had the pleasure of handling a Sebenza. But I have read numerous reviews on them. I don't remember ever hearing a bad thing about them. I would love to have the opportunity to check one out myself. From the pictures I've seen, I liked it a lot.
Funny that you should mention Strider knives. I just bought one. (That should be read: "paid for and now going through the obligatory six month waiting period.") Their reputation is based on their knives being super tough and capable of being used as some of the world's most expensive crowbars without suffering significant damage. I personally need such a knife, so I ordered a <strong>fixed</strong> blade. My impression of their folders is that they are built forthe same market. I don't need a folding sharp crowbar.
I may be completely off base with this <i>ass</i>umption. I've never handled a folder of theirs and never bothered to ask Mick about them. But I have a strong suspicion that they are VERY well made.
I was fortunate that I received a knife from EKI that I love. I've had nothing but good things to say about it. But as I have said before, I can only speak on my personal experiences. If it gave me problems or seemed to be substandard in quality in any way, I would have had something to say about that. I'm not one to be blinded by simple reputation. It can strongly influence my predisposition, but if it doesn't perform like it should, I won't tolerate it. I can't afford to. It's really unfortunate that some poorly constructed knives made it through QC and into the hands of paying customers. I understand their disappointment and disillusionment. However, if they had received a knife identical to the one I got, their judgements would have been based entirely on different criteria - how it feels in their hand, is the blade size appropriate to their needs or desires? Also do they like the recurved blade? Or do they find that they don't like the double bevel chisel edge? Mine has been a good fit for me. I still want to check out that Sebenza, though.
Thank you very much for such a detailed and thoughtful response to my posts. Sometimes things can and do get a little heated here as people vent their frustrations. So, it is nice to see this thread heading back in a more civil direction. If I have insulted anyone here as a result of something I have said, I'd like to apologise.
I didn't go back and reread my old post where I mentioned my lack of familiarity with Outdoor Edge Knives. But from what I read in your post, though, it seems that I may have inadvertantly grouped them in with "cheap knock-offs" from Taiwan, etc. First of all, I never meant to have it come across that way. I simply don't know anything about them. My comment about the "cheap knock-offs" is really born out of seeing poorly made (IMHO) garbage knives that one can find often enough in surplus stores and similar places. For me to have come across as making a broad statement that inexpensive knives are cheap knives is a disservice to some excellent knifemakers out there. I certainly never meant to say anything of the sort, but if I came across that way... I was wrong. Thank you for the education about the OE Magna. I will certainly look into Kit Carson's work. When you mentioned that KC made them, I thought I remembered some posts from him (and some concerning him) elsewhere in these forums. And I vaguely remember coming away with the impression that he was well thought of.
I haven't yet had the pleasure of handling a Sebenza. But I have read numerous reviews on them. I don't remember ever hearing a bad thing about them. I would love to have the opportunity to check one out myself. From the pictures I've seen, I liked it a lot.
Funny that you should mention Strider knives. I just bought one. (That should be read: "paid for and now going through the obligatory six month waiting period.") Their reputation is based on their knives being super tough and capable of being used as some of the world's most expensive crowbars without suffering significant damage. I personally need such a knife, so I ordered a <strong>fixed</strong> blade. My impression of their folders is that they are built forthe same market. I don't need a folding sharp crowbar.
I may be completely off base with this <i>ass</i>umption. I've never handled a folder of theirs and never bothered to ask Mick about them. But I have a strong suspicion that they are VERY well made.
I was fortunate that I received a knife from EKI that I love. I've had nothing but good things to say about it. But as I have said before, I can only speak on my personal experiences. If it gave me problems or seemed to be substandard in quality in any way, I would have had something to say about that. I'm not one to be blinded by simple reputation. It can strongly influence my predisposition, but if it doesn't perform like it should, I won't tolerate it. I can't afford to. It's really unfortunate that some poorly constructed knives made it through QC and into the hands of paying customers. I understand their disappointment and disillusionment. However, if they had received a knife identical to the one I got, their judgements would have been based entirely on different criteria - how it feels in their hand, is the blade size appropriate to their needs or desires? Also do they like the recurved blade? Or do they find that they don't like the double bevel chisel edge? Mine has been a good fit for me. I still want to check out that Sebenza, though.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2001
- Messages
- 3,709
I think that many will agree with me in saying that Ernest Emerson puts out great designs and has earned his place among noted custom makers, but the fact that so many knife buyers are dissapointed with his production folders shows that there is definately a need to "tweek" up their quality control. I wish it were otherwise since I really like their designs. but the fact is that I have seen better workmanship on Taiwanese made folders like those produced by Outdoor Edge and CRKT than on American made Emerson knives.
If you want to market your knives as the # 1 hard use knives in the world, then so be it, but the quality and workmanship must back up the claim. (Perhaps the folks at Emerson knives can take a lesson from Cold Steel? Despite the hype, how many Cold Steel knives look crappy just after a few days of handling?!)
I don't want to pay $150 plus on a production knife that's going to look like crap only after 2 or 3 days of just handling it. If I use the knife really hard and it ends up looking like it's taken a beating, then I don't mind because I have been the one to use and abuse it and I have the comfort of knowing that my knife won't let me down. Now if you look at a knife with cheap paint on the screws, linerlocks that slip, linerlocks that will quickly wear and move clear across the blade tang, and a plethora of other problems, you'd think you bought a cheap flea market knockoff. I'm sorry, but I refuse to pay a high amount of money on a folder like that. If I want a high end G-10 scaled folder, I'll buy a Benchmade or Spyderco, but not an Emerson.
If you want to market your knives as the # 1 hard use knives in the world, then so be it, but the quality and workmanship must back up the claim. (Perhaps the folks at Emerson knives can take a lesson from Cold Steel? Despite the hype, how many Cold Steel knives look crappy just after a few days of handling?!)
I don't want to pay $150 plus on a production knife that's going to look like crap only after 2 or 3 days of just handling it. If I use the knife really hard and it ends up looking like it's taken a beating, then I don't mind because I have been the one to use and abuse it and I have the comfort of knowing that my knife won't let me down. Now if you look at a knife with cheap paint on the screws, linerlocks that slip, linerlocks that will quickly wear and move clear across the blade tang, and a plethora of other problems, you'd think you bought a cheap flea market knockoff. I'm sorry, but I refuse to pay a high amount of money on a folder like that. If I want a high end G-10 scaled folder, I'll buy a Benchmade or Spyderco, but not an Emerson.
You know what? I really am getting very very tired of Emerson bashing.
The reason I think EKI is crapped on all the time, is that THEY ARE THE #1 HARD USE KNIVES IN THE WORLD, and everyone else is jealous. Emerson knives ARE used by the SEALS, in fact a month or so ago, SEAL Team 6 orderd a bunch of waved CQC7B's. Now, if I'm a SEAL, and I spend MY OWN $$ on a knife, it better work when the feces hits the rotating oscillator.
All the other knife companies are just jealous because who makes the ONLY officially issued[by NASA] NASA knife? NOT CRK, NOT MT, NOT BM, NOT CRKT, NOT Spyderco....ONLY Emerson. So fans of these other knives are jealous too.
I guess when you're the best, everyone tries to drag you down to their level.
Lemme ask you guys something, how mwany of you have EVER USED an Emerson? I'll bet very few. If you owned one, and didn't like it, did you send it back? Their customer service is unparalleled.
Everyone I've ever shown an Emerson to has been impressed. Even after I let them use it. NO ONE has ever said, "What a piece of crap." NO ONE.
Ya know what I think is ironic. How many of you will buy a 1911, spend thousands of $$ on it just to get it right? I bet a lot more than will have the guts to admit it. Lessee, $700+ for a 1911, plus $1500 for custom work, that's $2200+ for ONE gun. I can buy 4 Beretta 92FS Brigadiers with factory Trijicons for that amount!! And they will run circles around your precious 1911. And you guys will complain about having to tighten your pivot screw. Ever stop to think that Emersons are designed for you to adjust to YOUR liking? At least you can disassemble an Emerson, clean it, lube it, adjust it, and it WON'T VOID THE DANG WARRANTY!!!!!
The reason I think EKI is crapped on all the time, is that THEY ARE THE #1 HARD USE KNIVES IN THE WORLD, and everyone else is jealous. Emerson knives ARE used by the SEALS, in fact a month or so ago, SEAL Team 6 orderd a bunch of waved CQC7B's. Now, if I'm a SEAL, and I spend MY OWN $$ on a knife, it better work when the feces hits the rotating oscillator.
All the other knife companies are just jealous because who makes the ONLY officially issued[by NASA] NASA knife? NOT CRK, NOT MT, NOT BM, NOT CRKT, NOT Spyderco....ONLY Emerson. So fans of these other knives are jealous too.
I guess when you're the best, everyone tries to drag you down to their level.
Lemme ask you guys something, how mwany of you have EVER USED an Emerson? I'll bet very few. If you owned one, and didn't like it, did you send it back? Their customer service is unparalleled.
Everyone I've ever shown an Emerson to has been impressed. Even after I let them use it. NO ONE has ever said, "What a piece of crap." NO ONE.
Ya know what I think is ironic. How many of you will buy a 1911, spend thousands of $$ on it just to get it right? I bet a lot more than will have the guts to admit it. Lessee, $700+ for a 1911, plus $1500 for custom work, that's $2200+ for ONE gun. I can buy 4 Beretta 92FS Brigadiers with factory Trijicons for that amount!! And they will run circles around your precious 1911. And you guys will complain about having to tighten your pivot screw. Ever stop to think that Emersons are designed for you to adjust to YOUR liking? At least you can disassemble an Emerson, clean it, lube it, adjust it, and it WON'T VOID THE DANG WARRANTY!!!!!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2001
- Messages
- 173
Hmmm...who pooped in that guys corn flakes this morning???
Instead of flying off the handle and saying that we're all trying to bring down Emerson you should realize something...we all have the right to our own opinions. I think it's great that some people have gotten knives that they were very happy/proud of but I wasn't one of them and by the looks of it there are quite a few people out there just like me. I wish I could say that I just got a lemon.....one that slipped through his QC but I don't think so. I spoke to a dealer not far from me a few months ago that told me he had recently received a shipment from EK and all the knives were garbage....what would you call a $150+ knife whose liner lock wouldn't engage...not one knife mind you, the whole shipment!
If EK has a great customer service dept. good for them....but the harsh reality of the situation is this..if paying customers keep getting substandard knives then they won't be repeat customers and those same people will tell their friends to avoid EK knives. I wish Emerson all the best but I really feel they need to be more careful about what they let out of their shop.
Instead of flying off the handle and saying that we're all trying to bring down Emerson you should realize something...we all have the right to our own opinions. I think it's great that some people have gotten knives that they were very happy/proud of but I wasn't one of them and by the looks of it there are quite a few people out there just like me. I wish I could say that I just got a lemon.....one that slipped through his QC but I don't think so. I spoke to a dealer not far from me a few months ago that told me he had recently received a shipment from EK and all the knives were garbage....what would you call a $150+ knife whose liner lock wouldn't engage...not one knife mind you, the whole shipment!
If EK has a great customer service dept. good for them....but the harsh reality of the situation is this..if paying customers keep getting substandard knives then they won't be repeat customers and those same people will tell their friends to avoid EK knives. I wish Emerson all the best but I really feel they need to be more careful about what they let out of their shop.
IF the SEALS are buying Emerson knives, and IF they are using personal money to do it, why not just go down to the knife store and buy one? Could it be because EK makes them specially for the SEALS? Meaning what they can buy in a knife store would not be the same thing the rest of us get?
Same thing here. I don't think NASA is getting the same knives that you can buy in your local store. EK, just like any other company, is going to make dang sure every knife NASA gets is flawlesss...
And no, I'm anything but jealous of Emerson owners/users
I have used Emerson knives, and they are nothing special. They ship straight from the factory already looking hard used and it only gets worse from there.
Why would I need to send back a brand new knife, and pay for it?
I've owned and still own lots of other knives, and haven't felt the need to send any of them back, especially when they were brand new! But maybe you think it's just normal that you need to send this brand new knife back to Emerson and pay out of pocket for the experience.
I've shown lots of my knive to people and have the same experience. What's more, some of the knives really were cheap pieces of ****...Still nobody said anything. I've been handed cheap pieces of ****, and didn't say a word.
It's called being polite....
Emerson knive are the #1 hyped knives in the world, but that's about it.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2001
- Messages
- 3,709
Brigadier,
I have owned and used several Emerson knives and I have sent a few back to the factory for service and still have been dissapointed. The SEALS ans NASA are getting knives specially made for them and when you have a contract to provide knives to the U.S. Navy and NASA, you better bet they're going to give them the best of the bunch. I know there are hard core Emerson fans out there and that's fine. Unfortunately, I have been dissapointed too many times to the point where I cannot bring myself to buy another one again. As far as production companies go, there are always a few bad ones that slip by, but when you hear about many problems from so many people, and these problems are seen over and over again, you start to wonder what's going on at the factory? Overhyped and overpriced? Yes, considering the workmanship in comparison to other factory folders. Cold Steel is another company who is famous for hype, but I have never been dissapointed with the quality of their products. I have never had to send a knife back to them for service. Is Cold Steel any better than say SOG, Spyderco, Al Mar, Kershaw? No. They are no better and none the worst. But, they do produce constant quality knives which in my opinion, are no different in quality than SOG's, Spyderco's or Al Mar's folders. To me, Emerson's folders are no different than Benchmade's, but the workmanship, in my opinion is not even close. That's why I feel they are overhyped and overpriced.
I have owned and used several Emerson knives and I have sent a few back to the factory for service and still have been dissapointed. The SEALS ans NASA are getting knives specially made for them and when you have a contract to provide knives to the U.S. Navy and NASA, you better bet they're going to give them the best of the bunch. I know there are hard core Emerson fans out there and that's fine. Unfortunately, I have been dissapointed too many times to the point where I cannot bring myself to buy another one again. As far as production companies go, there are always a few bad ones that slip by, but when you hear about many problems from so many people, and these problems are seen over and over again, you start to wonder what's going on at the factory? Overhyped and overpriced? Yes, considering the workmanship in comparison to other factory folders. Cold Steel is another company who is famous for hype, but I have never been dissapointed with the quality of their products. I have never had to send a knife back to them for service. Is Cold Steel any better than say SOG, Spyderco, Al Mar, Kershaw? No. They are no better and none the worst. But, they do produce constant quality knives which in my opinion, are no different in quality than SOG's, Spyderco's or Al Mar's folders. To me, Emerson's folders are no different than Benchmade's, but the workmanship, in my opinion is not even close. That's why I feel they are overhyped and overpriced.
- Joined
- May 1, 2000
- Messages
- 2,258
Who's jealous? I don't see the owners or employees of other knife manufacturers badmouthing Emerson, do you? What I see are forumites who have personal experience with Emerson knives relating their experiences. Why would a knife knut get off on badmouthing EKI or any other company? What would they have to be jealous about? As a knife knut, I would never badmouth a company for making good knives, I'd buy them! I don't see how anyone here has any motivation to be jealous of EKI. If we all really knew that Emerson knives were the best we'd go buy them and be happy about it. There has to be some reason people complain about EKI's QC. I have no axe to grind and I assume (perhaps I'm wrong here, but I doubt it) that people complaining about bad knives they've received have actually received bad knives. Am I naive to believe what my fellow forumites say when there's dozens of them who say the same thing?
That sounds like a more reasonable warranty policy than many other manufacturers, I wish they'd all follow suit. But the pivot screws shouldn't be backing out on their own. I believe Emerson's pivot screws are built in a similar manner to those made by BM, Spyderco, CRKT, etc., and they don't usually have this problem. Problem, yes, pivot screws backing out on their own is a problem, and is not just a feature of a knife that is designed to be adjusted by the user, since all adjustable pivot screws are designed to be adjusted by the user, and it's not a feature of a knife that is designed to be disassembled, as evidenced by the Sebenza.
Emerson has some great designs, and I don't doubt that those that are well made perform very well, but you can't deny that many get out that are not well made. There's just too many reports of bad EKI knives out there for it to be one or two a$$holes who have a personal vendetta against EE. I'm a fan of REKAT, I really like their knives and designs, but I don't deny all of the QC problems I read about. I'm happy and maybe even lucky that I got good ones and I hope they get their sh!t together. I'm a fan of BM, I have a bunch of their knives, and I don't deny the QC & edge grind problems I read about. I'm glad all of mine came good, and I'd like them to improve in those areas they mess up on. Why can't you say the same about Emerson knives? When they're good they're good, and when they're bad they're bad, and there are too many bad ones out there. Hell you could say that about most companies, though a bad CRKT, CRK, Spyderco, or MT is quite rare; a bad REKAT, BM, or Emerson is not quite so rare. It's nothing to insult people over.
"Hell you could say that about most companies, though a bad CRKT, CRK, Spyderco, or MT is quite rare; a bad REKAT, BM, or Emerson is not quite so rare. It's nothing to insult people over."
If that's the case, then why aren't there entire strings bashing the other companies? Why is it only Emerson? Maybe it's because Emerson makes no bones about the fact that their knives are designed for self defense and are pround of it, whereas most manufacturers cringe when self defense and knives are mentioned in the same sentence. That makes others uncomfortable. Everyone else seems to describe theirs as utility knives. That makes them a target.
I've gotten rid of all my BMs for the same reasons you don't like Emersons - QC; dull blades, stripped screws in G-10[what kind of engineer DESIGNS a knife that taps G-10 for screws], horrible heat treating, warranty policy[mandated by tapping G-10], etc....... It's just I don't initiate entire threads bashing BM.
I'm sorry, I've owned probably close to 20 Emersons, Never had a bad one. I've owned half that many BM's, half of those were subpar.
I just don't buy it.
If that's the case, then why aren't there entire strings bashing the other companies? Why is it only Emerson? Maybe it's because Emerson makes no bones about the fact that their knives are designed for self defense and are pround of it, whereas most manufacturers cringe when self defense and knives are mentioned in the same sentence. That makes others uncomfortable. Everyone else seems to describe theirs as utility knives. That makes them a target.
I've gotten rid of all my BMs for the same reasons you don't like Emersons - QC; dull blades, stripped screws in G-10[what kind of engineer DESIGNS a knife that taps G-10 for screws], horrible heat treating, warranty policy[mandated by tapping G-10], etc....... It's just I don't initiate entire threads bashing BM.
I'm sorry, I've owned probably close to 20 Emersons, Never had a bad one. I've owned half that many BM's, half of those were subpar.
I just don't buy it.
"you just don't buy it"? Don't buy what?
I don't buy Emerson knives anymore, but that's not what your talking about here....
We are not talking about knives that are just too expensive for people, and thus they feel the need to bad mouth them so they don't feel deprived.
The quality control problems are being reported by people who have owned and used Emerson knives, and now don't...for a reason!
There is just no reason for people to bad mouth a knife or knife company unless they consistently turn out a sub par knife or knives...it's that simple.
I don't buy Emerson knives anymore, but that's not what your talking about here....
We are not talking about knives that are just too expensive for people, and thus they feel the need to bad mouth them so they don't feel deprived.
The quality control problems are being reported by people who have owned and used Emerson knives, and now don't...for a reason!
There is just no reason for people to bad mouth a knife or knife company unless they consistently turn out a sub par knife or knives...it's that simple.
You know, I would like to see one of the substandard Emersons that you guys are getting.
I currently own 7 ('98 preproduction Commander, '00 Commander green g10, SARK, SOCFK BT, SOCFK GT, Raven green GT, Mini 7B) Emersons, have given one away as a gift (Raven A), and traded one for a holster and some ammo (MACH 1). None had a problem with construction, fit or finish. One (my green G10 2000 Commander) has screws that are losing the finish but that's not EKI's fault, nor do I care. The screws are not made in Emerson's shop, they are purchased from a supplier. Yes there was a batch that had a substandard finish, which EKI will replace WHEN ASKED.
My girlfriend owns 3 EKI's (Raven, CQC 7B, and Specwar) and there are no problems with them either.
I dunno, I must be lucky
I am confident enough in the quality of my Emerson knives that I carry them on duty as a backup to my G31 or SIG 229.
Those of you who have a subpar Emerson feel free to send it my way.
If you really want to do something about EKI's QC "problem", contact EKI. Let's see some action instead of bitching about it here.
I currently own 7 ('98 preproduction Commander, '00 Commander green g10, SARK, SOCFK BT, SOCFK GT, Raven green GT, Mini 7B) Emersons, have given one away as a gift (Raven A), and traded one for a holster and some ammo (MACH 1). None had a problem with construction, fit or finish. One (my green G10 2000 Commander) has screws that are losing the finish but that's not EKI's fault, nor do I care. The screws are not made in Emerson's shop, they are purchased from a supplier. Yes there was a batch that had a substandard finish, which EKI will replace WHEN ASKED.
My girlfriend owns 3 EKI's (Raven, CQC 7B, and Specwar) and there are no problems with them either.
I dunno, I must be lucky
I am confident enough in the quality of my Emerson knives that I carry them on duty as a backup to my G31 or SIG 229.
Those of you who have a subpar Emerson feel free to send it my way.
If you really want to do something about EKI's QC "problem", contact EKI. Let's see some action instead of bitching about it here.
- Joined
- May 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,668
<B>AWWWWRIIGHHHT! Brigadier and Philip to the rescue! Finally, someone in my corner!</B>
In all seriousness though, Brigadier put my 1911 analogy into words far better than I (though a bit more forcefully than I would have, too. * *) Emersons are <i>designed</i> to be able to be field stripped. As a result, they will slowly loosen with use. My BM/E CQC7 that I loved was not so friendly in that respect. True, it didn't loosen noticeably with use, but in order to clean it, I needed two different sizes of allen wrenches to do the job. At least with an Emerson, I can do so with a flathead screwdriver, or a coin in a pinch. As for the finish on the screws wearing off quickly... I've already addressed that. It is a minor detail for a user knife. I've told you the remedy if it bothers you that much. There seems to be a lot of hyperbole going on here in describing knives simply coming apart or looking terrible after handling them only a few days. I'll buy that QC might slip up from time to time. But I refuse to believe that it is as big a problem as you claim. A warranty such as what Mr. Emerson extends has only been equalled by one other company (that I know of)... Strider. Both are pretty much unconditionally warrantied. If you are going to stand beind your product like that, you must make a heck of a tool.
If you got a lemon, I suggest you send it back and try again. If you can tweak your knife, then do so and try it now. Don't just complain that the blade rubs the liner, etc. This really IS like the 1911. I just know that the production model I got was delivered to me sight unseen. I never handled it in a store or anything before I purchased it. And it is a really, really, nice knife. Good luck.
In all seriousness though, Brigadier put my 1911 analogy into words far better than I (though a bit more forcefully than I would have, too. *
*) Emersons are <i>designed</i> to be able to be field stripped. As a result, they will slowly loosen with use. My BM/E CQC7 that I loved was not so friendly in that respect. True, it didn't loosen noticeably with use, but in order to clean it, I needed two different sizes of allen wrenches to do the job. At least with an Emerson, I can do so with a flathead screwdriver, or a coin in a pinch. As for the finish on the screws wearing off quickly... I've already addressed that. It is a minor detail for a user knife. I've told you the remedy if it bothers you that much. There seems to be a lot of hyperbole going on here in describing knives simply coming apart or looking terrible after handling them only a few days. I'll buy that QC might slip up from time to time. But I refuse to believe that it is as big a problem as you claim. A warranty such as what Mr. Emerson extends has only been equalled by one other company (that I know of)... Strider. Both are pretty much unconditionally warrantied. If you are going to stand beind your product like that, you must make a heck of a tool. If you got a lemon, I suggest you send it back and try again. If you can tweak your knife, then do so and try it now. Don't just complain that the blade rubs the liner, etc. This really IS like the 1911.
I just know that the production model I got was delivered to me sight unseen. I never handled it in a store or anything before I purchased it. And it is a really, really, nice knife. Good luck.Kampfjaeger: I have not said too much except that I believe at $130, the Commander is a good buy and a great knife. The wave and light weight of the knife is the main reason I own 2 of them. In fact it is now my EDC and one has been used and abused without any failure. However, at $170 - $200, I believe it is too expensive compared to the competition.
Anyway, you did say one thing that I disagree with. You say "Emersons are designed to be able to be field stripped. As a result, they will slowly loosen with use."
I simply don't believe that this is the case. I have other knives that can be field stripped and the Commander is the only one that I had to add teflon (sp?) tape to the treads of the pivot screw. In fact, Emerson advised me to do this. When they told me this, as a remedy, I was really surprised. A customer should not have to add teflon tape or blue Locktite to a new, quality knife to hold it together.
On a positive note: After the tape was added to the pivot screw, and I did a little "centering of the blade so it did not rub the liner" the knife has continued to get much better with age. All of the components seem to settle in and become much more firm in fitment when you use the knife regularly. There is now a noticable improvement in solid feel of my EDC Commander compared to the new 2nd one I just received.
Anyway, you did say one thing that I disagree with. You say "Emersons are designed to be able to be field stripped. As a result, they will slowly loosen with use."
I simply don't believe that this is the case. I have other knives that can be field stripped and the Commander is the only one that I had to add teflon (sp?) tape to the treads of the pivot screw. In fact, Emerson advised me to do this. When they told me this, as a remedy, I was really surprised. A customer should not have to add teflon tape or blue Locktite to a new, quality knife to hold it together.
On a positive note: After the tape was added to the pivot screw, and I did a little "centering of the blade so it did not rub the liner" the knife has continued to get much better with age. All of the components seem to settle in and become much more firm in fitment when you use the knife regularly. There is now a noticable improvement in solid feel of my EDC Commander compared to the new 2nd one I just received.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2001
- Messages
- 3,709
Hey guys, it's about consistency. Emerson bashing? I think not. I have never owned a custom Emerson, but I've always heard rave reviews about them. Ernie's designs are also very well thought out and executed. It's the mass production of Emerson's factory knives that needs "tweeking." I can understand having to send back 1 or 2 knives back to the factory for defects, but when you've payed hard earned cash for 5, 6, 7 knives, all with similar problems, you have to ask yourself, what's going on? It got to the point that I stopped ordering them on the web and had to resort to looking at several samples of the same knife at a retail store just to find one that was okay. If that's the case, then why even bother with them? Is it wrong to want a knife that does not look crappy only after days of handling them? Is it wrong to want a knife that doesn't have a sloppy lock?It's nothing personal against Emerson knives, but that's my opinion. I've bought Emerson knives because I liked the designs and the overall feel of the knives. Unfortunately, I was dissapointed at the workmanship. Simple. Now, if I see otherwise, then I'll reconsider.
Didja notice I haven't heard anything about the 1911 analogy? I knew no one would admit it.
When I get a new Emerson, here's what I do:
I disassemble it[can't do that with a BM and keep the warranty], I clean it, lubricate the washers and the pivot with Militech-1, I take the liner without the lock, REDUCE the tension the second ball detent exerts on the blade, re-assemble it loosely, adjust the lock engagement by putting pressure on the scales in the direction I want the lock to move, Loc-Tite the pivot screw, tighten all the screws, adjust the tension in the pivot, and let it sit for the loc-tite to set up.
This way I can get the blade to pivot the way I want it, without voiding warranties. This is how the knife was designed, for the user to be able to do this. This would void a BM warranty, so you're stuck with how it comes from the factory.
Now, I've NEVER had to sharpen an Emerson out of the box. They are dangerously sharp. BM's are ususally dull.
Now, if having the option of doing this to a new $100-175 knife upsets you, then don't buy an Emerson. But once set up how YOU like it, an Emerson is a kick butt knife.
When I get a new Emerson, here's what I do:
I disassemble it[can't do that with a BM and keep the warranty], I clean it, lubricate the washers and the pivot with Militech-1, I take the liner without the lock, REDUCE the tension the second ball detent exerts on the blade, re-assemble it loosely, adjust the lock engagement by putting pressure on the scales in the direction I want the lock to move, Loc-Tite the pivot screw, tighten all the screws, adjust the tension in the pivot, and let it sit for the loc-tite to set up.
This way I can get the blade to pivot the way I want it, without voiding warranties. This is how the knife was designed, for the user to be able to do this. This would void a BM warranty, so you're stuck with how it comes from the factory.
Now, I've NEVER had to sharpen an Emerson out of the box. They are dangerously sharp. BM's are ususally dull.
Now, if having the option of doing this to a new $100-175 knife upsets you, then don't buy an Emerson. But once set up how YOU like it, an Emerson is a kick butt knife.
Sometimes simple ascii text posts are very revealing about people and their thought processes.
As far as the 1911 goes, a Kimber w/ night sights and a hand full of Wilson mags is all you need. That's well under $800. And such a package with high quality 185gr, 200gr, or 230gr hollow points compares quite favorably with a 9mm Beretta 92FS in my experience, especially in terms of trigger and shoot-ability. Unless you still haven't grown out of the hicap mag fettish. You might be able to get a 92FS for less than that, but to my hand/eye, the 1911 ergonomics, when modernized ala Kimber, are hard to beat, especially the trigger and grip.
I shot 500 rounds through my Kimber in one day with not a hiccup. I'm not a cop or anything, so 500 in a day is probably the most I'll ever shoot unless I go to Chapman or Thunder Ranch, etc. The Wilson mags are one key to 1911 reliability...there may be other mags that are as good, but I doubt any are better out of the box, consistently. I did also polish the feed ramp of my 1911 (well, all three of them) w/ a Dremel, but do that to every handgun I guy before I even shoot it the first time. Glocks and SIGS tend to run as reliably as Beretta's also, and Glocks are less money. I own 3 Glocks also. My brother's P229 is a gem.
Of course, handgun preferences are like bungholes...everybody has one. This is just mine, and I've used it for a while now.