1. Click here to enter the drawing for your chance to win an Ontario Knives Spec Plus SP8 Machete Survival Knife & Ka-Bar Dozier Folding Hunter, , Bladeforums.com swag or memberships!

    Be sure to read the rules before entering, then help us decide next week's giveaway by hitting the poll in that thread! Entries close at midnight, Saturday Sept 7!

    Once the entries close, we'll live stream the drawing on Sunday, Sept 8 at 5PM Eastern. Tune in to our YouTube channel TheRealBladeForums for a chance to win bonus prizes!

    Questions? Comments? Post in the discussion thread here

Emerson "Wave Shaped Feature" Announcement

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Ernest Emerson, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. Charlie Mike

    Charlie Mike Sober since 1-7-14 (still a Paranoid Nutjob) Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 1, 2000
    That's where you're wrong. I was never asked to stop in the 5 years that I offered wave services. It was only when I asked him in October 2014 that he said he would prefer I stop.
  2. Lance23


    Jul 24, 2014
    It's good to know Emerson finally got this figured out, even if they seem to be going power crazy.
    I still probably won't ever feel a need for one of their knives though.
    Just my .02.

    On a lighter note, I love your work CM and watch your videos regularly.
    Can't I say I would have done any different.
  3. PNWhovian


    Jan 16, 2015
    If things were as you claim, I might understand. As I've no knowledge of said transactions and Mr Mike seems quite adamant in his denial of such requests, I'm left to wonder.
    As it is, this was his personal knife, not a knife he was commissioned to provide the 'illicit' service for. It would seem to me that he should be able to sell it or give it away should he so desire.

    Looking back through that the forums it's readily apparent that you never tried to hide this service or claim it as your own idea. I see no issue clearing out your current inventory and then discontinuing any further mods for hire. As for personal use, I say go for it.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
  4. Karda

    Karda Banned BANNED

    Jun 1, 2007
    How is protecting your intellectual property from those that use it for their own benefit without permission, acknowledgement or monetary compensation considered "power crazy"?
  5. bflying

    bflying Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 4, 2014
    I'm all for protecting IP and such. But just wondering, in this situation, what if a slightly different but functional shape was called a "bottle opener" or some other functional purpose? Not trying to open a legal can of worms, but wondering if an aftermarket modification is any different than direct manufacturer/marketing. Just think/yappin' out loud.
  6. mrnotsam123


    Aug 4, 2013
    Speaking of acknowledgement, how bout you acknowledge that CM wasn't asked multiple times to not wave mod? Not saying this out of spite or to be rude, just clarification. That bit you threw out there seemed completely unfounded and not really based on anything. Wouldn't want to keep the confusion spreading.
  7. Insipid Moniker

    Insipid Moniker Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 28, 2011
    To be totally fair, you pretty much have to defend trademarks or you lose them. That's one big way they differ from patents.
  8. Zero_Time


    Dec 28, 2006
    On your authority as what, an IP copyright lawyer specializing in production designs and specific law relating to federal patents and California interpretation and case law?

    It's difficult to say where one ends and one begins.

    What I'M curious about is that it's OK to mod an emerson, right? So how many parts are necessary for the emerson protection to apply? Does it need to be blade based, thus limiting your waved knives to 154CM? Or does any part make it an emerson knife, thus it's modifying an existing, protected knife rather than illegally using a trademarked design on another knife.

    Would putting an emerson pocket clip count? Welding an original wave from an emerson blade onto a new knife? Extensively modifying the handle?

    What about licensed designs, like the cheap kershaw emerson collaborations? Would that work with the same as above applied?

    Same thought occurred to me about CM wanting a triad lock with other designs... why not get a cheap triad folder, and use the constituent triad parts in a new knife? It sounds like it would be frankensteining parts together, which shouldn't violate copyright as they are original approved pieces, no stealing of the idea or parts at all.

    Plus it opens up buying broken knives from owners for cheap.

    Some thoughts anyway.

  9. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    Intellectual property protection ends with the patent. Trying to keep it going longer, brings in the trademark. Since the Wave feature has been licensed to other makers (e.g. Spyderco) some who do it better (e.g. Spyderco P'Kal) the trademark protection may be legal, but is certainly not logical.

    Maybe not power crazy, but certainly money-grubbing, particularly to deny a small paranoid Knutjob his simple pleasures and a few dollars to support his hobby :)
  10. RatbikeJim


    Nov 9, 2014
    Well said.
  11. snooka


    Jun 1, 2013
    My thoughts exactly, CM did some awesome jobs, not like there are a whole lotta guys doing wave mods.
    And the fact he's straight up, contacted Ernest about his mods, an got a no go... says more about EE than CM.
    No more emersons for me...
  12. PNWhovian


    Jan 16, 2015
    Nope, never claimed any such title just made a comment based on personal perspective, kind of like you're doing.
    If it's his own personal user that he paid for and decided to modify, who is to say how far he can go with said mods and how he can eventually dispose of it?
  13. Lance23


    Jul 24, 2014

    They knew he most like had knives with that modification, it was done before the trademark.
    Let the man sell his property, is this not America?
    He never tried to make money from Mr. Emersons Intellectual property, it's a bit silly IMO to try and restrict him from selling personal property with no infringement upon trademark being involved.
  14. Lance23


    Jul 24, 2014

    I don't fault them at all for defending themselves, but I feel like it's a battle they need not have fought.
  15. Charlie Mike

    Charlie Mike Sober since 1-7-14 (still a Paranoid Nutjob) Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 1, 2000

  16. Insipid Moniker

    Insipid Moniker Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 28, 2011
    Yeah, I hear you, and it definitely leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth as CM is an unquestionably stand up guy, but I guess I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt in thinking maybe they were more worried about the legal consequences of looking like they weren't defending their trademark than any monetary issues one or two knives sold at a loss would do them.
  17. Karda

    Karda Banned BANNED

    Jun 1, 2007
    For 5 years Charlie Mike helped himself to Emersons wave feature without repercussion.... offering his service all over the forum to make the wave mod as a knifemaking business and charging people money to do so. An act that helped him to build his business and reputation with no form whatsoever of compensation to Mr. Emerson or EKT.

    ....And Mr. Emerson is the bad guy for defending himself against such people?
    Mr. Emerson is "Money Grubbing" because he feels that he should be compensated legally for the usage right of property he legally owns, but others feel they have the "right" to use for free without asking permission first ( not 5 yrs after the fact)?

    If you want to blame someone for the wave feature being patented and trademarked, you should blame people like this who use it for their own benefit and purposes without permission, Not Mr. Emerson, who is legally obligated to defend his property right.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2016
  18. Charlie Mike

    Charlie Mike Sober since 1-7-14 (still a Paranoid Nutjob) Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Nov 1, 2000

  19. Insipid Moniker

    Insipid Moniker Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 28, 2011
    Come off it, the patent didn't in any way prohibit the wave mods CM was doing and he sought out Mr. Emerson and explicitly asked him his opinion on the subject which was, in and of itself, above and beyond and then furthermore made the choice to abide by Mr. Emerson's preference out of a sense of personal obligation as he had absolutely no legal obligation to do so. The idea that he somehow took advantage is simply ludicrous.
  20. JSMcustoms


    Feb 2, 2012
    Good to hear it. :)

Share This Page