Emersons Sales vs ZT Emersons

[toker]

Being ergonomic is very subjective and therefore hard to argue; but un-presumably for 200$ there are much better value knives out there

But I must agree, it is very hard to figure out exactly why their products are bought, given the competition

- Better value knives? Definitely. Better fit and finish knives? Absolutely. That being said, like a lot of people on this forum, I own(ed) a lot of knives from virtually every major manufacturer (CKRT, Benchmade, SOG, Spyderco, Kershaw, ZT, etc.). My office EDC is the Benchmade Kulgera. I love it's slim profile and I'm a big fan of the Axis lock. My "dress" EDC is the Zero Tolerance ZT0777 M390. It's an incredibly well built knife and the materials are top notch. But at the end of the day, when I carry a knife when I'm not in the office, I reach for my CQC-10 almost all of the time. I have not found a knife that I like as much or feels as good in my hand. The blade shape is perfect for all of the cutting chores I do and 154CM is very easy to sharpen. I love that knife more than any others that I own.

 

[Murdamook]

Can anyone here tell me the last time they carried their Emerson CQC-# on a spec-ops black bag job? Anybody here using their CQC whatever to Colombian Necktie an enemy guard that's standing between you and your exfil?

For the price, there are plenty of better options in just about every single way, so given how hard Emerson pushes their whole "OMG designed for super high speed spec-ops SWATSEAL DELTA" thing, it is absolutely cracking me up that people are getting pissy that others are calling Emersons as what they are: knives that are sold primarily by association with special forces soldiers.

Or, it just "melts in the hand", I guess. You know, whatever. It's almost as amusing as all the posts of "Emerson designs done by ZT! Finally, a knife that'll be worth the money and well built!"

That tells me that most of the people buying Emersons do so because of the marketing angle. But hey, that's cool, man.

Are you purposely dim? Again, I will reiterate my argument for you. I never said that the people calling Emerson knives "tactical" was an incorrect statement. My point was directly related to the disparaging attitude with which it was said. I disliked the aura that surrounded the Emerson models. I went to a local shop and held a Mini Commander and I loved the blade shape and the ergonomics of the handle. I didn't buy it because I have some super-secret desire to be "high-speed". My gripe has nothing to do with the labeling of the knife, simply the labeling of the owners of said knives by the judgmental so-and-sos that sauntered onto BFC in the last two years. If you're going to be denigrating, at least follow the argument of the person you are trying so hard to belittle.

 

[Quiet]

Are you purposely dim? Again, I will reiterate my argument for you. I never said that the people calling Emerson knives "tactical" was an incorrect statement. My point was directly related to the disparaging attitude with which it was said. I disliked the aura that surrounded the Emerson models. I went to a local shop and held a Mini Commander and I loved the blade shape and the ergonomics of the handle. I didn't buy it because I have some super-secret desire to be "high-speed". My gripe has nothing to do with the labeling of the knife, simply the labeling of the owners of said knives by the judgmental so-and-sos that sauntered onto BFC in the last two years. If you're going to be denigrating, at least follow the argument of the person you are trying so hard to belittle.

Nope, not dim. I just think your passive aggressive attitude is amusing. "I don't like people saying disparaging things about a knife company I like!" Yes, I get it. You've only mentioned it two or three times.

Frankly? I really could not care less that you don't like my attitude or my comments. Here's an idea, put me on ignore, that way you won't have to see me mentioning anything about your favorite company with its poor fit/finish products (every one I've ever held has had blade centering issues, and has just not felt worth the money, sorry) which seem to sell primarily on the idea that "OMG It's good enough for our specwarriors, you should buy them too!" mythos that's passed around by the company and by its fans.

Regardless of your experience or personal anecdotes, the people that I've seen online, and interacted with in person who buy Emersons are the same sorts of people who won't buy any accessories for their super SWAT-Teamed up ARs unless it says "Mil-spec" somewhere in the description. "OMG are those sling mounts mil-spec???" or "Hey guys, can anyone tell me what the NSN of the CQC-8 is???"

Can someone refresh my memory, what does "CQC" stand for again? I've forgotten.

 

[toker]

Regardless of your experience or personal anecdotes, the people that I've seen online, and interacted with in person who buy Emersons are the same sorts of people who won't buy any accessories for their super SWAT-Teamed up ARs unless it says "Mil-spec" somewhere in the description. "OMG are those sling mounts mil-spec???" or "Hey guys, can anyone tell me what the NSN of the CQC-8 is???"

- I've never met anyone with this attitude. If you've seen them online, I've love to see their posts since it seems like it would be great for a few laughs. Otherwise, hyperbole doesn't add anything to this thread.

 

[Quiet]

- I've never met anyone with this attitude. If you've seen them online, I've love to see their posts since it seems like it would be great for a few laughs. Otherwise, hyperbole doesn't add anything to this thread.

I am not going to post up any links to other forums, because frankly, it's ALL anecdotal. At the end of the day, if you love Emersons, I wish absolutely all the power to you, man. I do. Me? I think they're barely one step above $50 ninja swords. I've held a few, and truly don't see what the deal is. I think a lot of people that buy them ARE attracted by the idea that these are the knives carried by Navy SEALs (allegedly). They're the same sort of guys who'll argue with you until they're blue on the face on gun boards about how SIG Sauers are the best handguns because multiple armies use 'em, and they're so cool Jason Bourne had 'em. I personally don't care that much, and I don't actually think people are idiots for buying Emersons. I was merely sharing an opinion I had based on anecdotal evidence in my life (same as yours). I have bought plenty of things in my life based on a marketing gimmick, so I'm not exactly immune. If the ClosetQuartersContrivance-Sealteam6 is your jam, have at it, man. It's your moolah.

 

[Murdamook]

Nope, not dim. I just think your passive aggressive attitude is amusing. "I don't like people saying disparaging things about a knife company I like!" Yes, I get it. You've only mentioned it two or three times.

Frankly? I really could not care less that you don't like my attitude or my comments. Here's an idea, put me on ignore, that way you won't have to see me mentioning anything about your favorite company with its poor fit/finish products (every one I've ever held has had blade centering issues, and has just not felt worth the money, sorry) which seem to sell primarily on the idea that "OMG It's good enough for our specwarriors, you should buy them too!" mythos that's passed around by the company and by its fans.

Regardless of your experience or personal anecdotes, the people that I've seen online, and interacted with in person who buy Emersons are the same sorts of people who won't buy any accessories for their super SWAT-Teamed up ARs unless it says "Mil-spec" somewhere in the description. "OMG are those sling mounts mil-spec???" or "Hey guys, can anyone tell me what the NSN of the CQC-8 is???"

Can someone refresh my memory, what does "CQC" stand for again? I've forgotten.

It's clear that you still can't grasp my point. Say what you want about the knife company; it's all been said. I am defending the reason I purchased an Emerson knife. Let me spell it out for you:

Had people said, "Emerson knives are marketed as tactical knives, which I don't like." I would have never had any issues-nor did I have any issues with those that held that sentiment earlier in the thread.

Instead, some people decided to say, "Those who purchase Emerson products are nothing but wannabe operators, etc." I have issue with people who like to make sweeping generalizations about individuals they have never had any meaningful interaction with.

If you want to continue to hold hands with the ignorant individuals who follow the second train of thought, so be it. Again, if you're going to argue against a point, at least argue against a point I made rather than some point you attributed to me.

 

[Quiet]

It's clear that you still can't grasp my point. Say what you want about the knife company; it's all been said. I am defending the reason I purchased an Emerson knife. Let me spell it out for you:

Had people said, "Emerson knives are marketed as tactical knives, which I don't like." I would have never had any issues-nor did I have any issues with those that held that sentiment earlier in the thread.

Instead, some people decided to say, "Those who purchase Emerson products are nothing but wannabe operators, etc." I have issue with people who like to make sweeping generalizations about individuals they have never had any meaningful interaction with.

If you want to continue to hold hands with the ignorant individuals who follow the second train of thought, so be it. Again, if you're going to argue against a point, at least argue against a point I made rather than some point you attributed to me.

You know, the crazy thing about generalizations (just like stereotypes), they tend to exist due to a kernel of truth. A knife named CQC...wow, you're so right. How could I not have seen it? It's clearly a preposterous idea to consider that people might want to buy that line of products because they have hero worship for America's HSLD operators. I'm just generalizing. I'm completely incorrect, because Murdamook on Bladeforums says so, based on his anecdotal evidence.

Sure thing, guy.

Anyway, we should probably let the matter drop. You aren't going to change my mind, and the way this seems to be headed, the personal attacks are going to start ramping up and then we're both going to get our hands slapped. Your insistent inference that clearly I'm incorrect is irrelevant to me. We aren't going to come to an agreement on this. For you, hey, Emersons are awesome. Great. For me? They're bought primarily by people who are attracted to the idea that it's the same knife that special forces operators use to stab bad people in the side of the neck. Is what it is. It's marketing. I mean, look at the ZT product. It's like the real thing...only better. I really cannot put into words how amusing I think that is (nor does that matter). ZT will make another great product, and who knows, maybe I'll get one. I did just preorder two of the cheap "Emerson" Kershaws. That wave feature could really come in handy for all those times that I've needed to have my knife deploy instantly so I can grapple with an enemy. Of course, in my case, the enemy will most likely be a stubborn cap on a bottle of beer. But hey, I'm sure it has other uses. :thumbup:

 

[Murdamook]

You know, the crazy thing about generalizations (just like stereotypes), they tend to exist due to a kernel of truth. A knife named CQC...wow, you're so right. How could I not have seen it? It's clearly a preposterous idea to consider that people might want to buy that line of products because they have hero worship for America's HSLD operators. I'm just generalizing. I'm completely incorrect, because Murdamook on Bladeforums says so, based on his anecdotal evidence.

Sure thing, guy.

Anyway, we should probably let the matter drop. You aren't going to change my mind, and the way this seems to be headed, the personal attacks are going to start ramping up and then we're both going to get our hands slapped. Your insistent inference that clearly I'm incorrect is irrelevant to me. We aren't going to come to an agreement on this. For you, hey, Emersons are awesome. Great. For me? They're bought primarily by people who are attracted to the idea that it's the same knife that special forces operators use to stab bad people in the side of the neck. Is what it is. It's marketing. I mean, look at the ZT product. It's like the real thing...only better. I really cannot put into words how amusing I think that is (nor does that matter). ZT will make another great product, and who knows, maybe I'll get one. I did just preorder two of the cheap "Emerson" Kershaws. That wave feature could really come in handy for all those times that I've needed to have my knife deploy instantly so I can grapple with an enemy. Of course, in my case, the enemy will most likely be a stubborn cap on a bottle of beer. But hey, I'm sure it has other uses. :thumbup:

I'm just frightening sparrows now. Simple concepts are clearly just beyond your grasp. Good talk.

 

[Quiet]

I'm just frightening sparrows now. Simple concepts are clearly just beyond your grasp. Good talk.

Hey look, more passive aggressive little girl drama-llama talk. Awesome! :thumbup:

"Well clearly, my high ideals and concepts are just beyond your grasp!"

You just keep telling yourself that, guy. It absolutely does not mean anything to me. I mean, how seriously you're trying to take yourself right now? That is stupendous hilarity. So, thanks for that at least. You must be a scream at parties!

 

[MasterPisaster]

Whether you like Emerson's or not, the collabs look great.

Bottom line, they are not for everyone. Some like them, some don't for whatever reason. If you are not impressed with an Emerson knife, sell it and move on. Clearly Ernie is doing something right.

 

[sh00ter01]

words words words

So you make broad sweeping generalizations about Emerson customers and then proceed to preorder a couple of his designs... right...

I curious as to how you feel about the Spyderco Civilian (amoung other Spyderco model designed for SD). A blade that has it history spelled out in it description, 'knife for undercover agents...etc.', do you give Spyderco owners the same grief about buying their knives?

 

[Quiet]

So you make broad sweeping generalizations about Emerson customers and then proceed to preorder a couple of his designs... right...

I curious as to how you feel about the Spyderco Civilian (amoung other Spyderco model designed for SD). A blade that has it history spelled out in it description, 'knife for undercover agents...etc.', do you give Spyderco owners the same grief about buying their knives?

Please refresh my memory, what Spyderco are we talking about? Is it the one called "Close infighting special forces movie combat"? CQB? "Up close fighter SEAL knife"? It's not "CQC" because Emerson already has that whole "pocket knives that SEAL DELTA operators kill bad guys with" thing cornered. Oh, we're talking about a specific Spyderco knife that was designed for civilians with minimal training to use to slice an aggressor. Spyderco's ad copy sure as hell doesn't read like a bad Tom Clancy novel (like Emerson's does).

So, try apples with apples next time, hmmmm?

Edited: I had put emerson knives' main site here. Not sure if that's allowed so I killed it. Google it.

Across the top: COMING SOON, THE PAAAAYYYYYTREEEE-UUUUTTTT!!!!!! HOOORAH SON! Jesus, that ad needs more guns blazing and saluting.

Another, here's the text from their Super CQC-8 (you know, for all that super close quarters infighting that all their non military customers find themselves in the middle of):

"Here is the Super Sized knife that everyone wanted. And it is a Super knife not just in size, but in ferocity, intimidation and performance. I’m almost scared to carry the thing around."

Marketing guy is almost scared to carry the thing around. Wow. Ok. What a laugh. Their entire marketing strategy is geared towards presenting customers with the idea that Emerson knives are this big military thing. And you're mad that some people call them and their customers on it? Sure thing, guy. :barf:

 

[EDCanAdamas]

So you make broad sweeping generalizations about Emerson customers and then proceed to preorder a couple of his designs... right...

I curious as to how you feel about the Spyderco Civilian (amoung other Spyderco model designed for SD). A blade that has it history spelled out in it description, 'knife for undercover agents...etc.', do you give Spyderco owners the same grief about buying their knives?

What is it about critiquing Emerson's knives that draws such animosity from people? Seriously? All the major knife companies make "tactical" products, hell even S&W knives throws in buzzwords like "Operator" and "SWAT" into their product names. During WWII Ka-bar ran ads say "Ka Bar was here" showing their knife and a GI. Cool stuff sells knives, we all get that.

My original issue with Emerson knives was, and is, that Emerson seems to base his PRICES on this mystique he has created without really proving that soldiers actually carry his knives. Saying that Delta guys and SEALs use Emersons is great marketing because we don't really know what those guys actually carry. However, I am not going to buy what I personally view as a $100 knife for $250 just because a saleman told me that the SEALs carry them. I don't do "Lifestyle Brands" (This goes for Benchmade too). Either improve the quality or lower the prices, which is what ZT is doing, or I'm out.

Lastly, I'd like to add that I have known many soldiers and law enforcement officers, and have seen Gerbers, Leathermans, Benchmades, Kershaws, flea market knives, Bucks, Victorinox SAK's and Spydercos being carried, I have yet to see an Emerson.

 

[sh00ter01]

Please refresh my memory, what Spyderco are we talking about? Is it the one called "Close infighting special forces movie combat"? CQB? "Up close fighter SEAL knife"? It's not "CQC" because Emerson already has that whole "pocket knives that SEAL DELTA operators kill bad guys with" thing cornered. Oh, we're talking about a specific Spyderco knife that was designed for civilians with minimal training to use to slice an aggressor. Spyderco's ad copy sure as hell doesn't read like a bad Tom Clancy novel (like Emerson's does).

So, try apples with apples next time, hmmmm?

Edited: I had put emerson knives' main site here. Not sure if that's allowed so I killed it. Google it.

Across the top: COMING SOON, THE PAAAAYYYYYTREEEE-UUUUTTTT!!!!!! HOOORAH SON! Jesus, that ad needs more guns blazing and saluting.

Another, here's the text from their Super CQC-8 (you know, for all that super close quarters infighting that all their non military customers find themselves in the middle of):

"Here is the Super Sized knife that everyone wanted. And it is a Super knife not just in size, but in ferocity, intimidation and performance. I’m almost scared to carry the thing around."

Marketing guy is almost scared to carry the thing around. Wow. Ok. What a laugh. Their entire marketing strategy is geared towards presenting customers with the idea that Emerson knives are this big military thing. And you're mad that some people call them and their customers on it? Sure thing, guy. :barf:

So Spyderco knife design to cut someone open is ok cause it's named Civilian and references use by Federal agents and LEO's. Emerson knife designed to cut someone open is NOT ok because it's got CQC in the name and references the military.

I got it! Totally different! Read you loud and clear!

 

[Quiet]

So Spyderco knife design to cut someone open is ok cause it named Civilian and references use by Federal agents and LEO's. Emerson knife designed to cut someone open is NOT ok because it's got CQC in the name and references the military.

I got it! Totally different! Read you loud and clear!

Let me ask you a simple question, "shooter". Does Spyderco as a brand sell their knives based around a marketing strategy of "Our knives are used by SEAL DELTA HSLD specops badass warriors!"?

Yes or no?

 

[EDCanAdamas]

Let me ask you a simple question, "shooter". Does Spyderco as a brand sell their knives based around a marketing strategy of "Our knives are used by SEAL DELTA HSLD specops badass warriors!"?

Yes or no?

I know I shouldn't stir the pot, but I bet that more SEALs use Gerbers than Emersons.

 

[sh00ter01]

What is it about critiquing Emerson's knives that draws such animosity from people? Seriously? All the major knife companies make "tactical" products, hell even S&W knives throws in buzzwords like "Operator" and "SWAT" into their product names. During WWII Ka-bar ran ads say "Ka Bar was here" showing their knife and a GI. Cool stuff sells knives, we all get that...

I have no problem with people critiquing Emerson knives, they're not for everyone, like any knife or brand for that matter. I DO have a problem with wide blanket statements that are nothing more then ignorance.

 

[Quiet]

I know I shouldn't stir the pot, but I bet that more SEALs use Gerbers than Emersons.

LOL probably because Gerbers dominate the PX knife rack (I know this from firsthand experience).

 

[Quiet]

I have no problem with people critiquing Emerson knives, they're not for everyone, like any knife or brand for that matter. I DO have a problem with wide blanket statements that are nothing more then ignorance.

It's not ignorance, you just don't agree or like my position. Which is fine, but personally I think you have a personal bias because you like their products which, again, is just fine. But you don't get to be all pissy when people read all of the marketing copy on Emerson's site, and have to laugh at it. I mean, I lost count of the number of times SEALs and the British SAS, or close quarters fighting/combat are mentioned.

 

[sh00ter01]

It's not ignorance, you just don't agree or like my position. Which is fine, but personally I think you have a personal bias because you like their products which, again, is just fine. But you don't get to be all pissy when people read all of the marketing copy on Emerson's site, and have to laugh at it. I mean, I lost count of the number of times SEALs and the British SAS, or close quarters fighting/combat are mentioned.

There's definitely some ignorance there about Emerson's customer base. By the way, I only own 1 Emerson, yet own many Kershaw's, ZT's, and Spyderco's. I'm hardly a fanboy. Just really find it funny how much you've gone out of your way to belittle those that buy and use their blades. You're the one that obviously biased.

Anyways, enjoy those Emerson designs you got on preorder