Enlan & Sanrenmu

[davek14]

Some of these knives are original. Often the bullying begins when a knife simply resembles another as well.

Many products have been made for many years which resemble a popular product. When I was a kid my parents bought us gym shoes which looked like the expensive brand. No one was fooled and thought it was the expensive brand.

At the other end of the spectrum you have direct countefeits. Bad for the hobby, and for individual consumers as well. I buy in different price ranges and I don't want to be fooled by a counterfeit.

As has been said before, this is a subject with grey areas. Pointing out that there are grey areas is not saying the obvious abuses are OK, it's saying it is hard to determine a clearly defined line. It's not saying where a line is.

I would just like to be able to discuss at least some Chinese knives somewhere without an attempted slap down of the thread.

As is usually the case it's likely that the extreme attitudes on both sides of this are wrong.

 

[bld522]

It seems some Chinese companies are starting an upswing trend in the market, with knives being made to consistently high quality with consistently reasonable prices. Once the sales are good enough to support US warranty departments, domestic companies are in for some really stiff competition.

True that. Case in point:

www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1327501

I buy in different price ranges and I don't want to be fooled by a counterfeit.

Nor should you ever have to be fooled by a counterfeit. The solution is deceptively simple. All you have to do is buy from authorized resellers.

I would just like to be able to discuss at least some Chinese knives somewhere without an attempted slap down of the thread.

Yeah. Good luck with that! About the only safe places you can go to do that around here are the Chinese Manufacturer's Forums BladeForums hosts . . . not to put too fine a point on it.

 

[craytab]

Some of these knives are original. Often the bullying begins when a knife simply resembles another as well.

Many products have been made for many years which resemble a popular product. When I was a kid my parents bought us gym shoes which looked like the expensive brand. No one was fooled and thought it was the expensive brand.

At the other end of the spectrum you have direct countefeits. Bad for the hobby, and for individual consumers as well. I buy in different price ranges and I don't want to be fooled by a counterfeit.

As has been said before, this is a subject with grey areas. Pointing out that there are grey areas is not saying the obvious abuses are OK, it's saying it is hard to determine a clearly defined line. It's not saying where a line is.

I would just like to be able to discuss at least some Chinese knives somewhere without an attempted slap down of the thread.

As is usually the case it's likely that the extreme attitudes on both sides of this are wrong.

The unlicensed use of Benchmade's Patented Axis lock is not a grey line. If folks don't agree, well sorry, you are wrong. Nothing grey about it.

 

[bld522]

The unlicensed use of Benchmade's Patented Axis lock is not a grey line. If folks don't agree, well sorry, you are wrong. Nothing grey about it.

Let the slapping continue.

 

[davek14]

The unlicensed use of Benchmade's Patented Axis lock is not a grey line. If folks don't agree, well sorry, you are wrong. Nothing grey about it.

I̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶l̶i̶e̶v̶e̶ ̶I̶ ̶m̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶.̶

̶I̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶m̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶S̶a̶n̶r̶e̶n̶m̶u̶'̶s̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶t̶a̶l̶ ̶s̶i̶n̶.̶

I̶'̶m̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶p̶p̶e̶d̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶t̶?̶ ̶I̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶a̶t̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶v̶a̶l̶i̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶C̶h̶i̶n̶a̶?̶ ̶

A̶n̶d̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶C̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶S̶t̶e̶e̶l̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶A̶m̶e̶r̶i̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶p̶a̶n̶y̶,̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶?̶

I̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶o̶b̶s̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶w̶r̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶c̶o̶u̶n̶t̶s̶.̶ ̶W̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶,̶

You know what, I'm chasing that non-existent line with you again.

Let's say Sanrenmu knowingly made millions of dollars selling thousands of knives with an axis lock made from puppy skin... and then raped a nun. Does that mean that people have a right to swoop in like vigilantes if I discuss other products they have manufactured?

 

[bld522]

Of course they do . . . if somebody doesn't stop them from pulling threads off topic, that is. This is a public forum, after all. And you know how messy that can get.

 

[Hiro-kun]

The unlicensed use of Benchmade's Patented Axis lock is not a grey line. If folks don't agree, well sorry, you are wrong. Nothing grey about it.

In the US, the responsibility of enforcing patents falls on the patent holder and patents are only valid in the territory in which they are filed. SRM's use might be unlicensed, but it is not necessarily infringing.

By the way, Benchmade doesn't appear to own the patent for the lock itself. It also expires on July 12, 2016, so any moral high ground over alleged infringement legally disappears in less than a year.

 

[bld522]

Please DON'T confuse the issue with facts. Those who are committed to their agendas will not not be moved by them.

So, any more from the Happy Slapsters or can we get back to discussing knives now?

 

[Neko2]

I like my little 710s. They don't get much use due to their size (I like a bigger grip) but are great quality, good steel and perfect fit and finish. I do want to try some of their funky original designs too. Their knives and Rough Rider really opened my mind about Chinese knives.

 

[trevitrace]

I have lost a few threads to poop throwing. It is a shame every time I see the same thing when the mods don't drop the hammer on the same handful of derailers.

I have had or handled quite a few Sanrenmu knives, and they are consistently passable to good, their knives have pretty good quality control. No surprise, since many US manufacturers use them for the overseas models. Enlan is pretty in line with SRM on quality (they are believed to be a child company of SRM), albeit a little lower quality. Navy and Bee are rather hit or miss, some are decent and others are just scrap metal. Ganzo is one with more speckled opinions. My Ganzo knives have been great, no issues aside from strong locks (no stick, just stiff springs), others have had nothing but crap. They seem to be pretty hit or miss, both in terms of build quality and blade quality.

Some real standouts in the Chinese market are Kizer and Reate. Great value for the price, and Kizer especially has some staggeringly low priced items for what you get. It seems some Chinese companies are starting an upswing trend in the market, with knives being made to consistently high quality with consistently reasonable prices. Once the sales are good enough to support US warranty departments, domestic companies are in for some really stiff competition.

Thanks for not calling those that disagree with you idgits (idiots) this time, jkaz.

 

[Etna]

I like my little 710s. They don't get much use due to their size (I like a bigger grip) but are great quality, good steel and perfect fit and finish. I do want to try some of their funky original designs too. Their knives and Rough Rider really opened my mind about Chinese knives.

Then you must try SRM's line of non-locking folders that use their own unique bearing detent mechanism. It secures the blade firmly in the open position as a lock will and yet can be pushed closed as a slipjoint.

They can be identified by having a SUX code in the model number (e.g: 7098SUX)

 

[Etna]

I have had or handled quite a few Sanrenmu knives, and they are consistently passable to good, their knives have pretty good quality control. No surprise, since many US manufacturers use them for the overseas models. Enlan is pretty in line with SRM on quality (they are believed to be a child company of SRM), albeit a little lower quality. Navy and Bee are rather hit or miss, some are decent and others are just scrap metal. Ganzo is one with more speckled opinions. My Ganzo knives have been great, no issues aside from strong locks (no stick, just stiff springs), others have had nothing but crap. They seem to be pretty hit or miss, both in terms of build quality and blade quality.

Enlan and SRM are not related. Real Steel and SRM are: Real Steel and SRM often share desginers and some of Real Steel's knives are actually modified SRMs.

I do not know about Navy, but BEE and Enlan are the same. Depending on which seller you purchase from, Enlan knives can either come in an Enlan package or a BEE package, but are otherwise identical.

 

[bld522]

I like my little 710s. They don't get much use due to their size (I like a bigger grip) but are great quality, good steel and perfect fit and finish. I do want to try some of their funky original designs too. Their knives and Rough Rider really opened my mind about Chinese knives.

I had my eyes opened when I bought a Kevin John clone of a 3.0" Hinderer XM-18 with a slicer grind. I use the word "clone" rather than "counterfeit" because the markings on the blade and the handle clearly distinguish it from the original. I bought it for several reasons. First, I'm not Mil/LEO/EMT so I couldn't purchase an XM-18 directly from the factory for what the manufacturer said it was actually worth . . . $385. If I could have purchased it for that, I would have. Second, secondary market pricing for 3.0" XM-18s at the time was in the $700 to $800 range, prices I considered usurious. From that perspective, you could call my purchase of the Kevin John an act of retribution. And third and most important, I needed to see for myself whether the Happy Slapsters' contention that all Chinese knives are junk was correct. I paid over $100 for the Kevin John at the time . . . a large amount of money for a junk knife if I guessed wrong but a great value if I guessed right. Fortunately, I guessed right. And now I have something 99% of the Happy Slapsters don't have . . . real world experience to draw on when people ask about the ability of Chinese manufacturers to produce quality knives. Of course having purchased the Kevin John makes me a pariah in the eyes of the Happy Slapsters. But I couldn't care less. Somebody had to take one for the team.

So where am I with counterfeits, clones and knockoffs? I'd never buy another one. And I'm not suggesting that anyone else does. But if folks ask about the quality of the knives, I won't lie and call them junk when I know better. And I will challenge anyone who does when I know they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[trevitrace]

Then you must try SRM's line of non-locking folders that use their own unique bearing detent mechanism. It secures the blade firmly in the open position as a lock will and yet can be pushed closed as a slipjoint.

They can be identified by having a SUX code in the model number (e.g: 7098SUX)

You weren't lying, it actually does have SUX in its model #.

Reminds me of the Suck Kut from Wayne's World.

 

[trevitrace]

I had my eyes opened when I bought a Kevin John clone of a 3.0" Hinderer XM-18. I use the word "clone" rather than "counterfeit" because the markings on the blade and the handle clearly distinguish it from the original. I bought it for several reasons. First, I'm not Mil/LEO/EMT so I couldn't purchase an XM-18 directly from the factory for what the manufacturer said it was actually worth . . . $385. If I could have purchased it for that, I would have. Second, secondary market pricing for 3.0" XM-18s at the time was in the $700 to $800 range, prices I considered usurious. From that perspective, you could call my purchase of the Kevin John an act of retribution. And third and most important, I needed to see for myself whether the Happy Slapsters' contention that all Chinese knives are junk was correct. I paid over $100 for the Kevin John at the time . . . a large amount of money for a junk knife if I guessed wrong but a great value if I guessed right. Fortunately, I guessed right. And now I have something 99% of the Happy Slapsters don't have . . . real world experience to draw on when people ask about the ability of Chinese manufacturers to produce quality knives. Of course having purchased the Kevin John makes me a pariah in the eyes of the Happy Slapsters. But I couldn't care less.

Want to read this pre-edit but heading back to bed for now.

 

[craytab]

I Dont understand Ken44 are you saying that these are nockoffs or counterfeits

This is an example of why I post in these threads. Not to argue. That is clearly pointless. I post for the people who have no clue about what they are buying. People in this hobby deserve to know about the companies they buy from. New people read these threads all the time. Now they can make a more informed decision.

 

[bld522]

Now they can make a more informed decision.

About the ethics or about the knives? Or do you expect folks not to make the distinction, particularly when it comes to parting with their hard-earned cash?

 

[Duane Sanders]

I don't get some of these posts. Patents, copies, look a likes.

How about we stop buying blatant rip offs of the first knife design to use a pivot pin. Everyone after that is ripping off the inventor and it's a crime to use any knife with a pivot, according to some of the posts I've read. We better not dare buy a steel blade either. I bet it's a crime to copy the first knives that moved on from bronze. If your fixed blade has a sheath you are stealing intellectual property of the first person to use one. Cease and desist now!

All knives are so similar in construction you will not find a single one that does not use features from other knives. Even if the handle looks so much like some other brand.

Who cares. They are knives, they cut stuff, another infringement on the original inventors intellectual property rights. How can we all be so selfish as to buy a blatant rip off of the original designers? Just so we can cut things.

Sorry guys and gals, that's what I am reading.

 

[Stays Sharp]

It's just different levels of justification to urge others not to buy Chinese. If it's a ripoff/counterfeit, don't buy it because it's bad (insert reasons here). If its a cheap budget priced legit knife, don't buy it because the steel is 8cr. and it doesn't compare to a Sebenza. If its high end supposedly top quality, don't buy it because of political/nationalistic reasons.

Just calling it as I see it, the only China folder I own right now is a Tenacious so I'm no China knife buyer with an agenda. Nothing is really appealing to me right now. Perhaps a Ti CaraCara/MLark down the road.

 

[RevDevil]

I have lost a few threads to poop throwing.

What else do you expect?

It is a shame every time I see the same thing when the mods don't drop the hammer on the same handful of derailers.

If it's something that is of any significant importance to you, why would you not be proactive and click the small black triangle and report problematic posts? It's one thing to sit and talk about the problems, it's quite another to simply do something to help fix them. You can be part of the solution or simply complain about it.

Ralph Waldo Emerson once said the following:
“The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.”
Makes sense in this case.