Enlan & Sanrenmu

[craytab]

And is it poop throwing when folks point out the knife you want to talk about has a stolen axis lock? How do you think Benchmade, one of our most respected manufacturers who has a great presence here, think about folks promoting knives that have illegally stolen their patented design? Seems lots of people don't care. Sad really.

 

[bld522]

What else do you expect? If it's something that is of any significant importance to you, why would you not be proactive and click the small black triangle and report problematic posts? It's one thing to sit and talk about the problems, it's quite another to simply do something to help fix them. You can be part of the solution or simply complain about it.

I think there's an element of expectation here, RD. I, for one, anticipate that threads that involve knives made in China draw more scrutiny from the Mods than others for obvious reasons. So rather than be labeled as a complainer, I assume rightly or wrongly that if a thread involving knives from China is being pulled off topic and it isn't being addressed by the Mods, there's a reason for that . . . a reason no one has to dig very deep to find.

The issue I have is that Spark has made the decision to allow certain Chinese-based manufacturers to set up subforums here. How can we do that on one side of our fence and let China-bashing take place on the other?

I really think BF needs to set up a subforum that allows people to discuss Chinese-made knives without having to put up with antagonists I refer to as the Happy Slapsters . . . folks who will slap you silly if you so much as open your mouth about a knife made in China. They aren't here to discuss knives. They're here to promote their agendas.

 

[craytab]

A̶n̶d̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶C̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶S̶t̶e̶e̶l̶,̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶A̶m̶e̶r̶i̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶p̶a̶n̶y̶,̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶?̶

Nope, I believe it was licensed.

You know what, I'm chasing that non-existent line with you again.

There is a clear line when it comes to the axis lock. If you or others don't see it, I'm sorry.

 

[craytab]

I think there's an element of expectation here, RD. I, for one, anticipate that threads that involve knives made in China draw more scrutiny from the Mods than others for obvious reasons. So rather than be labeled as a complainer, I assume rightly or wrongly that if a thread involving knives from China is being pulled off topic and it isn't being addressed to by the Mods, there's a reason for that . . . a reason one doesn't have to dig very deep to find.

The issue I have is that Spark has made the decision to allow certain Chinese-based manufacturers to set up subforums here. How can we do that on one side of our fence and let China-bashing take place on the other?

I really think BF needs to set up a subforum that allows people to discuss Chinese-made knives without having to put up with people I refer to as the Happy Slapsters . . . folks who will slap you silly if you so much as open your mouth about a knife made in China. They aren't here to discuss knives. They're here to forward their agendas.

For me this is not about knives made in china. I have one in my pocket right now. And we all know most of our other stuff is made in china anyway. To cry China is bad is simply ignorant. What I do care about is how some Chinese manufacturers are screwing other companies, mostly US ones. I care about members here promoting that screwing.

"Hey my ripped off axis lock fake lionsteel is great, but I wonder what the steel really is?" How many knock offs did that thread alone sell.....or this one for that matter.....

 

[rje58]

I can't believe it when people say this kind of stuff, and that virtually anything that can be put down as "cultural" somehow makes everything okay...? Really?

So a culture that "really (doesn't have) any individual rights" is okay? Huh?

It also baffles me when people excuse societies where females are oppressed, can't pursue an education, are physically and mentally abused and really don't have any individual or collective rights.... but that's okay because that's their culture.

What it sounds like to me is that some cultures are really screwed up. None are anything close to perfect, of course, especially not the United States culture! but some are really screwed up more than others - some to the point of having evil cultures!

Culture may be the explanation - but it is no excuse! and certainly not a justification!

The main problem is cultural. There isn't really a concept of intellectual property in China and while they know that they are in the minority, they stick to their cultural norm. It's not shady black market ripping off as much as it's Chinese culture and Communism's sense of shared property for the common good. There really isn't any individual rights as we define it.

 

[bld522]

I can't believe it when people say this kind of stuff, and that virtually anything that can be put down as "cultural" somehow makes everything okay...? Really?

So a culture that "really (doesn't have) any individual rights" is okay? Huh?

It also baffles me when people excuse societies where females are oppressed, can't pursue an education, are physically and mentally abused and really don't have any individual or collective rights.... but that's okay because that's their culture.

What it sounds like to me is that some cultures are really screwed up. None are anything close to perfect, of course, especially not the United States culture! but some are really screwed up more than others - some to the point of having evil cultures!

Culture may be the explanation - but it is no excuse! and certainly not a justification!

See what I mean, RD? What does this post have to do with knives? And how do you think it would go over if it were posted in the Kizer and Reate forums?

Once again, we can't invite Chinese manufacturers to become part of our community and then allow people to bash their culture. Or can we?

 

[Stays Sharp]

I can't believe it when people say this kind of stuff, and that virtually anything that can be put down as "cultural" somehow makes everything okay...? Really?

So a culture that "really (doesn't have) any individual rights" is okay? Huh?

It also baffles me when people excuse societies where females are oppressed, can't pursue an education, are physically and mentally abused and really don't have any individual or collective rights.... but that's okay because that's their culture.

What it sounds like to me is that some cultures are really screwed up. None are anything close to perfect, of course, especially not the United States culture! but some are really screwed up more than others - some to the point of having evil cultures!

Culture may be the explanation - but it is no excuse! and certainly not a justification!

We are relatively speaking a very very new culture. Big reason why we started a culture here is to leave other less desired cultures. It is also no excuse but various customs, cultures, and differences are a direct result of human nature and how things uniquely developed in different areas. I've been all around the world and its mind boggling just how different the world and the world views are everywhere else. Again it is no excuse FOR US, but to them it may be valid reasons. It's ok to not understand, we don't have to... (To them)They do not either for better or for worse. There are different rules in place. Our rules are the best, to others, they do not agree. So here we are in a knife forum moaning over and over again about the same shit that wont change shit.

 

[Stays Sharp]

What I do care about is how some Chinese manufacturers are screwing other companies, mostly US ones. I care about members here promoting that screwing.

I agree and I like how many of us stood up for KAI when Microtech pulled that Matrix stunt. I wish we did more of that for Benchmade once again releasing Spyderhole models this year, this time under the HK brand.

 

[dkb45]

I think there's an element of expectation here, RD. I, for one, anticipate that threads that involve knives made in China draw more scrutiny from the Mods than others for obvious reasons. So rather than be labeled as a complainer, I assume rightly or wrongly that if a thread involving knives from China is being pulled off topic and it isn't being addressed by the Mods, there's a reason for that . . . a reason no one has to dig very deep to find.

The issue I have is that Spark has made the decision to allow certain Chinese-based manufacturers to set up subforums here. How can we do that on one side of our fence and let China-bashing take place on the other?

I really think BF needs to set up a subforum that allows people to discuss Chinese-made knives without having to put up with antagonists I refer to as the Happy Slapsters . . . folks who will slap you silly if you so much as open your mouth about a knife made in China. They aren't here to discuss knives. They're here to promote their agendas.

You said exactly what I would have. I have seen quite a few thread on Chinese knives be highjacked and derailed when they had nothing to do with counterfeit or stolen designs. Heck, I remember Kizer getting the third degree when they first showed up, and they had to work a "guilty until proven innocent" standing up.

The issue is that too many people look for the slightest chance to get political, so any thread that has anything from China being positive is subject to attack. This kind of horrible negativity was around when Japan started getting into manufacturing that wasn't junk, and look now. I think the actual counterfeiters can jump off a bridge, but companies like SRM taking design elements but putting their name on it is not that bad. It happens all the time in almost every industry, but it is somehow a major issue and an unforgivable son in knives? Me thinks there is a little hyperbole there.

 

[Sosa]

.....

 

[NorthernSouthpaw]

Cray's argument is almost never about where the knife is made. It's about the outright thievery of another company's intellectual properties.
The reality is people come on here and want to gush over what they perceive to be a great knife for a great price, and he is pointing out (more for the casual reader who doesn't know any better) that to buy said knife is really purchasing stolen property.

I just quickly checked 4 of the major knife purveyors here (BHQ, GP,KC & KW) and did a search for each of the knife companies mentioned in this thread's title and below is the results
"Your search for "ganzo" found 0 products."
You cannot buy these knives on ANY reputable dealer's site. Why? Because Craytab is right.

These threads get derailed because people insist on fighting back in some way to justify (mainly to themselves) their purchases.
If you let him say his piece and move on, instead of a "Here we go again ....." this thread and many others would never have been derailed in the first place.

 

[bld522]

While you were busy checking the major knife purveyors you mentioned for Chinese manufactured knives they don't carry, did you happen to notice the number of Chinese manufactured knives they do? Whimper and whine all you want to, but Chinese knife naysayers are about to get bulldozed by the sheer volume of what's coming. And there isn't a darn thing any of them can do about it.

Carry on.

 

[Sosa]

The market is already flooded with the stuff haha.

 

[bld522]

And it's just the beginning . . .

 

[NorthernSouthpaw]

Please listen. I said nothing about Chinese anything. I was referring to companies (3 specifically) that are STEALING from other companies. The fact that they are all Chinese is another argument altogether.
This is NOT xenophobia. Nor is it a political agenda. It is simply not wanting to encourage criminal behavior.

 

[bld522]

Please listen. You are in the wrong place. This is a knife discussion forum. We discuss knives in this forum. If you're concerned about people stealing from one another and you want to express your concern, please take it to a forum other than this one. Thank you.

 

[Sosa]

It seems like for some there is a bizarre mystique surrounding these knives.

 

[J85909266]

I will not support these companies and think very little of those that do.

 

[John_0917]

I wonder how people's feeling, or at least their desire to express them, would be tempered if the company in question was not a well liked one (Benchmade) but rather was say *gasp* Strider...hmm, I tend to think the outrage wouldn't be quite so strong...just a thought.

 

[davek14]

These threads get derailed because people insist on fighting back

??????