"Experts" demand premium blade steels until it comes to prime collectors knives from companies like Loveless and Randall?

[shane45-1911]

I'm not going to walk up to a Gurkha and tell him his khukuri is made from inferior steel and is worthless for anything but an ornament.

But that's just me.

It is me as well. And it should be all of us.

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

The mistake Loveless and Randall made was to disclose what steel they use.
If they'd just gone the Busse route of giving their steel of choice an ambiguous name and hyping it up to mythical proportions, nobody would be able to say they were using a "subpar" steel.

 

[Blues]

The mistake Loveless and Randall made was to disclose what steel they use.
If they'd just gone the Busse route of giving their steel of choice an ambiguous name and hyping it up to mythical proportions, nobody would be able to say they were using a "subpar" steel.

Then the naysayers would say the blade was the product of a Loveless marriage.

(Thank you...I'll be here all week.)

 

[OrangeBlueOrangeBlue]

Then the naysayers would say the blade was the product of a Loveless marriage.

(Thank you...I'll be here all week.)

 

[The Meat man]

Even if I were a billionaire I wouldn't pay $50 for a Randall knife if I knew that I couldn't depend on it if I needed to use it.

Same. I'm kind of shocked by those pictures.

I've always admired Randall, and maybe someday I'll get one. I think I'd rather have O1 than 440B though.

 

[Steven65]

This is a strange thread.......... I own virtually every steel out there including a fair Randall and Busse collection. I also own some of the best modern steels. Does that make me a steel snob??

The question you have to ask yourself is if Bo Randall was alive today, and starting his company, would he be using O1 and 440B, or steels like 3V and CPM-154?

There is nothing at all wrong with O1 and 440B, but with the passage of time material science has moved on..........Many manufacturers and makers want to keep up with the times. I feel certain that if Bo Randall was starting his company today, so would he.

A few years ago I was in the workshop of one of the best knifemakers in the US and I had my trusty Schrade Walden 825 Stockman on me. For fun we Rockwell tested the blade........it was below 40. Does that mean I stopped carrying it and enjoying it......certainly not. But when I ask a custom maker to make me a new custom slip joint I want the best steel I can get, heat treated with the best protocols to maximise the steel. If that makes me a steel snob..........mea culpa.

 

[Blues]

...If that makes me a steel snob..........mea culpa.

Steven, you should be ashamed of yourself, you big snob!

(And to those who don't know...a nicer, more generous snob you'll never meet in your life. Trust me. We need many more like him.)

 

[madcap_magician]

This is a strange thread.......... I own virtually every steel out there including a fair Randall and Busse collection. I also own some of the best modern steels. Does that make me a steel snob??

The question you have to ask yourself is if Bo Randall was alive today, and starting his company, would he be using O1 and 440B, or steels like 3V and CPM-154?

There is nothing at all wrong with O1 and 440B, but with the passage of time material science has moved on..........Many manufacturers and makers want to keep up with the times. I feel certain that if Bo Randall was starting his company today, so would he.

A few years ago I was in the workshop of one of the best knifemakers in the US and I had my trusty Schrade Walden 825 Stockman on me. For fun we Rockwell tested the blade........it was below 40. Does that mean I stopped carrying it and enjoying it......certainly not. But when I ask a custom maker to make me a new custom slip joint I want the best steel I can get, heat treated with the best protocols to maximise the steel. If that makes me a steel snob..........mea culpa.

Really what it boils down to is that defining a steel snob is like defining a bad driver.

Everyone who drives slower than me is an idiot, everyone who drives faster is a maniac.

A steel snob is anyone who doesn't collect, use, or prioritize the same thing in knives as me!

 

[Danke42]

No body tell this guy how a makers heat treatment affects the steel they choose OK?

 

[Richard338]

For the record, rhino got As in both P Chem 1 and P Chem 2.

Meaningless trivia, but I had to say it!

Good job. I teach physical chemistry, but I defer to Larrin's book and articles for this stuff.

 

[Londinium Armoury]

I don't think it can be generalised simply as black and white as this. I wouldn't say this applies to most people who appreciate and use modern high alloyed tool steel on their knives. I think there is a small portion of people who fit the stereotype "steel snobs" but it's hghly individual and nuanced. Most people I actually interact with and experience like both new steels and old steels.
Most people seem to appreciate old carbon steels and newer steels, I fall into that catagory myself, sometimes a low alloy carbon steel is better for the job than say K390. If you are camping for example or hiking or anywhere that's away from your sharpening station for a decent length of time, carrying a simple carbon blade is more efficient, as you can hone the edge and reprofile it without specialized equipment. Even if you happaned to have all of your diamond stones, whetstones, plates, guided rods etc, it's still not fun to reprofile high alloy tool steels by hand in your camping tent.
Anyway, I think a high % of people are actually in the camp of appreciating both, they accept simple carbon steels (well heat treated ones) for what they are, and they also enjoy the benefit of using a tool made of the most modern high alloy steels.
So it's not really conflicting, I'm not saying there isn't a group of people who fit this stereotype, because you do see them around. But I think the % is a lot lower than online reading would make you think.
I actually don't want every company to start making premium blades out of the latest high alloy steels, if people stopped making knives out of older steels that would be bad, I don't want all of my well made knives to be time consuming to sharpen. There is actually a demand for well made knives in low alloyed carbon steel.

 

[Stahlmann]

Take 2 individuals with the same credentials you may have 2 different opinions, so who then would be the expert? still learning.

Larrin Thomas remains an honest to goodness expert on knife blade steels.

 

[Danke42]

What would I call someone who wants the latest premium steels in their knives but is also happy to own Randall Made and Bob Loveless knives in those makers choices of steel?

Smart would be a good place to start. Might have a bit too much disposable income but that's a personal choice.

 

[rhino]

Good job. I teach physical chemistry, but I defer to Larrin's book and articles for this stuff.

I have to admit that I took the classes for fun a few years after I already has a BS and MS in mechanical engineering, so I was a bit of a "ringer." It was interesting to see topics and concepts I had previously t studied from a different perspective and context. I also got to play with a scanning-tunneling microscope, which I think was fairly new back then (this was about 1992 or 93).

Back on track, I enjoy it when the materials nerds delve into compositions and grain structures and carbide and phases and all of that other stuff that I vaguely recall from my own materials science classes, but sometimes the details are hard for me to follow as well as I would prefer. I probably need to hit the books and rebuild my foundation (I did the same thing repeating a some math courses online recently).

Never stop learning1

 

[Richard338]

I have to admit that I took the classes for fun a few years after I already has a BS and MS in mechanical engineering, so I was a bit of a "ringer." It was interesting to see topics and concepts I had previously t studied from a different perspective and context. I also got to play with a scanning-tunneling microscope, which I think was fairly new back then (this was about 1992 or 93).

Back on track, I enjoy it when the materials nerds delve into compositions and grain structures and carbide and phases and all of that other stuff that I vaguely recall from my own materials science classes, but sometimes the details are hard for me to follow as well as I would prefer. I probably need to hit the books and rebuild my foundation (I did the same thing repeating a some math courses online recently).

Never stop learning1

Engineers often do well in PChem (if they are interested) since they typically have stronger math backgrounds than our chemists.

 

[Boattale]

Randall knives have a highly regarded aesthetic, nice leather sheaths and an excellent reputation with knife users in general. They are expensive, hard to get from the factory. They use older, low-end steels, run soft (often at 54 Rc) that are perfectly functional, but easily surpassed by better steels.

I purchased one Randall used on the forum, just because I wanted to see what Randall knives are all about. The fit and finish were bad on my knife. I couldn't resell it because the finish problems were too bad (bottom photo). So I gave it a good workout. The blade performed miserably. The softness was readily apparent. Yes, used as intended, it was a workable knife. Used properly, it could last a lifetime. But it could not take any abuse.

Many modern steels are tougher, stronger and have much, much better wear resistance. They will greatly outperform Randall's O1 or 440B. That's why I'll never buy another Randall.

I'd bet money, marbles or chalk that's not an honest to gosh Randall Made Knife.

This is what mine look like: They are both fully functional users.

Edit: Note the blade stamp on the Twindog "Randall" Florida is abbreviated FL. On the real Randall knives below, Florida is abbreviated FLA. The blade stamping is also very different in how crisp the lettering is (or isn't).

 

[GatorFlash1]

Aren't a lot of "premie" steels just powdered versions of older steels with a wee dash of something new added? I edc an M4 folder which is an oldie but a goodie! Best knife I've owned!

 

[betzner]

I imagine that "Experts" on super steel shop for super steel. And the two makers you mention have a collector base that care not for anything other than what is adequate for the job - a job which these days is to simply be collected. And there is a great divide in pricing between a Randall and a Loveless - which means that it is likely many supersteel lovers are priced outside of what many can pay...........

 

[Arathol]

I'd bet money, marbles or chalk that's not an honest to gosh Randall Made Knife.

Yes, there's nothing like a good Randall made knife.....and that is nothing like a good Randall made knife......
On that note, I bought a Ferrari once. It wouldn't go more than 110 mph before all 4 pistons fell out. What a piece of junk, I won't ever buy another Ferrari......

 

[K.O.D.]

Yes, there's nothing like a good Randall made knife.....and that is nothing like a good Randall made knife......
On that note, I bought a Ferrari once. It wouldn't go more than 110 mph before all 4 pistons fell out. What a piece of junk, I won't ever buy another Ferrari......

It only had four pistons. Something sounds fishy here...