Explanation Please

[Ccc]

For any of the confusion that San Mai is just a random work cold steel picked read the very first thing


http://bfy.tw/5ddX

if this be true I find it odd that cold steel claims the rights to a generic term describing how a knife is made. Perhaps I can claim the word "knife.

What they claim and what they actually have rights to are different, though.

They actually have rights to two different phrases that include a III or Ξ symbol ONLY. Cold Steel cannot stop any use of the words "san mai" unless it is used in conjunction with those symbols.

They have not trademarked the term San Mai, even though the letters they are sending out say that they have. They are doing themselves a disservice by not describing their trademarks correctly.

I agree, they should not claim the term that they did not actually trademark.

 

[James w]

So does this mean that the licensed lawyer from cold steel is claiming rights to a word that he actually has no rights to ? just a question that needs one answer yes or no

it demands an answer are you or are you not claiming rights to something you don't have

 

[James w]

Tomorrow the letters go out saying that I now own the right to the word knife and this is the official warning

 

[Fanglekai]

So does this mean that the licensed lawyer from cold steel is claiming rights to a word that he actually has no rights to ? just a question that needs one answer yes or no

The actual trademarks are as described above. Cold Steel is claiming rights they don't have.

 

[James w]

The actual trademarks are as described above. Cold Steel is claiming rights they don't have.

FYI that was for cold steel

 

[The Whip]

This whole issue is nothing but a tempest in a teapot. Lynn's explanation is perfectly reasonable and the resolution couldn't be simpler. Using the term "san mai" to sell your knives? Stop doing so and come up with something else. Feel you're entitled to use the term without Cold Steel's consent? Hire a lawyer and take your best shot at making your case. If you're pondering this course, however, I'll save you some time and lots of money and reveal the end of the drama: You're going to lose.

This is a pre-Cold Steel tanto (actually, a kwaiken, but why split hairs?) with a san mai layered blade.

Know how many of these were sold in America prior to 1980? Probably about six.


This is a post-Cold Steel Tanto with a San Mai III layered blade.

Know how many of these have been sold in America in the past thirty years? Thousands.

No matter what san mai meant before Cold Steel registered the San Mai III trademark, the term has become synonymous with the brand and Cold Steel has every right to protect its interests in the use of the name. Don't believe me? Go ahead and Google the words "san mai tanto" and see how many hits you get that don't refer to a Cold Steel knife.

-Steve

 

[UCPOPO]

I see this to be similar to Busses trademarks on the "talon holes" on a knife. While it may seem goofy, it's smart business.

 

[James w]

So let's say I trademark the name knives now nobody can say it's a tanto knife

That's exactly what cold steel claims yet cold steel is claiming a right they don't have they have rights to San Mai III and other variations but no rights to the word San Mai

To me it seemed that the lawyers at cold steel owe there apologize for claiming a right they don't have

 

[The Whip]

I see this to be similar to Busses trademarks on the "talon holes" on a knife. While it may seem goofy, it's smart business.

It's also not dissimilar to Emerson's loss of the term "Wave" to describe his opener because Leatherman was protecting its Wave model name trademark. Despite the fact that they were two totally different concepts for the word, Emerson still lost because Leatherman's trademark was first. The law is the law.

-Steve

 

[farmer ted]

So let's say I trademark the name knives

Is san mai a common english term?

 

[Fanglekai]

This whole issue is nothing but a tempest in a teapot. Lynn's explanation is perfectly reasonable and the resolution couldn't be simpler. Using the term "san mai" to sell your knives? Stop doing so and come up with something else. Feel you're entitled to use the term without Cold Steel's consent? Hire a lawyer and take your best shot at making your case. If you're pondering this course, however, I'll save you some time and lots of money and reveal the end of the drama: You're going to lose.

This is a pre-Cold Steel tanto (actually, a kwaiken, but why split hairs?) with a san mai layered blade.

Know how many of these were sold in America prior to 1980? Probably about six.


This is a post-Cold Steel Tanto with a San Mai III layered blade.

Know how many of these have been sold in America in the past thirty years? Thousands.

No matter what san mai meant before Cold Steel registered the San Mai III trademark, the term has become synonymous with the brand and Cold Steel has every right to protect its interests in the use of the name. Don't believe me? Go ahead and Google the words "san mai tanto" and see how many hits you get that don't refer to a Cold Steel knife.

-Steve

Nope. They do not own the trademark San Mai or san.mai. Their trademark is ONLY SAN MAI with the 3 wavy lines or Roman numerals. Anyone can freely use San Mai or SAN MAI and Cold Steel can't do anything about it because that's not their trademark.

 

[jbmonkey]

The key here is cold steel has lots of money and will lawyer any small maker out of business and out of cash long before they are proven right or wrong. So basically they are being bullies imho. I lose more and more respect for lynn and cold steel with the constant and debatable legal tactics used on other makers. I respect others seeing it differently, so be it.

 

[BlackKnight86]

Sorry to dredge this up again, but there is a distinction that is being missed in most of these posts. You are correct in your analysis if Cold Steel actually trademarked "San Mai," but patents #3540202, #3540187, and #1471971 only trademark "SAN MAI III" and two variations of "SAN MAI Ξ"

The trademark office expressly says that any use other than those are not trademarked, so I don't know why letters are being sent out about names that are NOT registered trademarks.
Cold Steel never trademarked San Mai, san mai, SAN MAI, or any other variation of the name. They only registered the words "San Mai III" and "SAN MAI Ξ"

I am no intellectual property lawyer, but the cease and desist order does not accurately convey the limits of the three registered trademarks.

I don't disagree. And the recipient of the letter can raise that very objection.

For any of the confusion that San Mai is just a random work cold steel picked read the very first thing


http://bfy.tw/5ddX

if this be true I find it odd that cold steel claims the rights to a generic term describing how a knife is made. Perhaps I can claim the word "knife.

You can try.

Something to consider: how generic is the phrase "cold steel"? Yet if someone labeled a knife with the words "cold steel", would you say that had nothing to do with the company name?

Tomorrow the letters go out saying that I now own the right to the word knife and this is the official warning

Again....you can try.

 

[bflying]

So does this mean that the licensed lawyer from cold steel is claiming rights to a word that he actually has no rights to ? just a question that needs one answer yes or no

it demands an answer are you or are you not claiming rights to something you don't have

Exactly what happens. A lawyer overextending reach for a client? Never!

So, if I own a company called Rental Space, and trademark my logo with a specific graphic, do I have the right to request all Realtors(r) to stop using the words "Rental Space" in adds or signage? Yeah, it's kind of like that.

 

[BlackKnight86]

This whole issue is nothing but a tempest in a teapot. Lynn's explanation is perfectly reasonable and the resolution couldn't be simpler. Using the term "san mai" to sell your knives? Stop doing so and come up with something else. Feel you're entitled to use the term without Cold Steel's consent? Hire a lawyer and take your best shot at making your case. If you're pondering this course, however, I'll save you some time and lots of money and reveal the end of the drama: You're going to lose.

This is a pre-Cold Steel tanto (actually, a kwaiken, but why split hairs?) with a san mai layered blade.

Know how many of these were sold in America prior to 1980? Probably about six.


This is a post-Cold Steel Tanto with a San Mai III layered blade.

Know how many of these have been sold in America in the past thirty years? Thousands.

No matter what san mai meant before Cold Steel registered the San Mai III trademark, the term has become synonymous with the brand and Cold Steel has every right to protect its interests in the use of the name. Don't believe me? Go ahead and Google the words "san mai tanto" and see how many hits you get that don't refer to a Cold Steel knife.

-Steve

Steve is right. It isn't JUST the word, or the process. The court will take all the above into account.

 

[BlackKnight86]

Exactly what happens. A lawyer overextending reach for a client? Never!

So, if I own a company called Rental Space, and trademark my logo with a specific graphic, do I have the right to request all Realtors(r) to stop using the words "Rental Space" in adds or signage? Yeah, it's kind of like that.

No it isn't. "Rental Space" is already a widely used industry term; San Mai was not.

 

[Wilsonhome]

Exactly what happens. A lawyer overextending reach for a client? Never!

So, if I own a company called Rental Space, and trademark my logo with a specific graphic, do I have the right to request all Realtors(r) to stop using the words "Rental Space" in adds or signage? Yeah, it's kind of like that.

Has anyone actually received a letter from an attorney? All I have seen is a letter from the CEO.

 

[Wilsonhome]

Nope. They do not own the trademark San Mai or san.mai. Their trademark is ONLY SAN MAI with the 3 wavy lines or Roman numerals. Anyone can freely use San Mai or SAN MAI and Cold Steel can't do anything about it because that's not their trademark.

I would further state that the small makers don't have to hire a lawyer first. CS will have to be the one to take that step and issue actual cease and desist letters before any further legal action would need to ensue.

 

[bflying]

No it isn't. "Rental Space" is already a widely used industry term; San Mai was not.

If that is the case, I wonder why they didn't attempt the simple text "San Mai" without adding the symbols? The most simple form of protection is always the strongest, as complexities can always be added down the road to expand on the brand. I'm guessing that the mark would not have been awarded as the words only without the symbols. Just a guess.

I have no dog in this fight, but do hate to see corporate overreach with threats of deeper pockets.


________________________________________________________
People Are Strange, When You're a Stranger.

 

[bflying]

Has anyone actually received a letter from an attorney? All I have seen is a letter from the CEO.

Corporate C&D's usually precede legal letters. If compliance happen from them, then legal costs can be much lower. But corporate demands are no less threatening than letters from an attorney. And are just as usable in legitimate defense of mark/patent. Simply early in the process.


________________________________________________________
People Are Strange, When You're a Stranger.