Explanation Please

Cold Steel BF representative,

Has Cold Steel ever had a SAN MAI trademark infringement case go to court with success? ... and by that I mean the two(2), three(3) letter words put together to make the term "San Mai". NOT "SAN MAI III" (with the 3 wavy lines or roman numerals.)

I think Cold Steel knows that they do not have a strong case. That is why they have not pursued the History Channel or went after individual smiths. I believe it is good enough for them to simply POSSESS the registered trademarks. They are OBLIGATED to make reasonable attempts to defend their rights to the term or they risk losing it. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. Folks are challenging them on this and they stand to lose more than they'll gain from legal action. And as I have said before. I do not see a trademark for the two words "San Mai". However, I do see Cold Steel using the little "registered" "R" along side SAN MAI... which would clearly be trademark fraud... so it is still confusing to me.
 
knife chop said:
First come, first serve buddy....SAN MAI might have been around for thousands of years but no one owned the name except cold steel. i can trademark "fuck off" if i want and no one can use that word on any t-shirts or advertisements without my consent. Lynn is just being Lynn but he is right. it's as simple as that....we don't need any discussions on who can sue who or who's the jackass.
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LOL... you aren't serious, right? So much wrong in four poorly constructed sentences.
 
bflying said:
Corporate C&D's usually precede legal letters. If compliance happen from them, then legal costs can be much lower. But corporate demands are no less threatening than letters from an attorney. And are just as usable in legitimate defense of mark/patent. Simply early in the process.

________________________________________________________
People Are Strange, When You're a Stranger.
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You are probably right. I just have never done it, or seen it done, that way. Any cease and desist either came from corporate counsel, or if really serious, outside counsel.
 
Lynn is doing what he does best, embarrassing himself, his company, and his customers. He has long been the laughing stock of the knife world and this is nothing more than him living up to expectation. He's like a child that needs attention and will misbehave to get it. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad attention, as long as it's attention.
 
Ccc said:
The US Patent and Trademark Office has three trademarks registered to Cold Steel concerning San Mai, but they all include either three waves or the roman numeral III after SAN MAI.

I just did a search on uspto.gov, and it is there. Do some people have issues with these trademarks?

EDIT: In fact, there is a disclaimer that explicitly says "NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "SAN MAI" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN"
It is all legitimate trademarking, and nothing registered with the office concerns the terminology.
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This is why in another thread, I suggested cutting and pasting that portion of the trademark document, and mailing it back highlighted......

Maybe with a picture of a turd? Or giant letters saying SUCK IT!
 
bflying said:
If that is the case, I wonder why they didn't attempt the simple text "San Mai" without adding the symbols? The most simple form of protection is always the strongest, as complexities can always be added down the road to expand on the brand. I'm guessing that the mark would not have been awarded as the words only without the symbols. Just a guess.

I have no dog in this fight, but do hate to see corporate overreach with threats of deeper pockets.
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You raise a good point; it would be a perfectly legitimate response/counter-argument.
 
JG Custom Metal Works said:
Lynn is doing what he does best, embarrassing himself, his company, and his customers. He has long been the laughing stock of the knife world and this is nothing more than him living up to expectation. He's like a child that needs attention and will misbehave to get it. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad attention, as long as it's attention.
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I must say that I am absolutely HUMILIATED!!! I purchase knives solely for the company and care not one iota about the product I purchase, its looks, or how it performs. I am ashamed to own any of my Cold Steel knives, past, present, and future. I will never buy from them again.

I am ashamed.

I mean I would be if any of what I said was true.
 
Last time I checked Bob Lum came up with the American style tanto and Lynn Thompson was inspired by it. History will show LT/CS has a long history of questionable inspiration and claims. I recall with great delight when Busse smacked down some of their grandstanding in the late 90s and early 00s.
 
Well yes cold steel has not struck the knife world with awe at its ethics that's for sure

And the fact they claim something they don't have also points to the kind of ethics they have
 
Havoc550 said:
I am a long time collector of Cold Steel, I started in the 80's with the original Magnum Tanto and my collection exploded from there. Even though I make (amateur) and collect custom knives, I still buy Cold Steel from time to time because I still like the brand. Instead of listing the reasons I am not exactly thrilled about this "San Mai is ours" campaign, could you at least provide an explanation without closing the thread? That or lose a long time collector for good. For those of you not aware, San Mai is a process that has been around for around 1000 years, not just since 1986.

Here is the message (with some variation) that several custom knife makers are receiving:

"Dear (does not matter): I am writing to advise you that your use of the term SAN MAI in Forged in Fire S2E9 infringes on the trademark rights of Cold Steel, Inc. (Cold Steel). I understand that you may not have been aware of this trademark or of Cold Steel’s long-standing use of the name SAN MAI. Therefore, I ask that you refrain from using the term SAN MAI to refer to any knife, layered steel or related products, except in regard to the products sold by Cold Steel, Inc.
Cold Steel owns the U.S. trademark registrations referenced above and has used the trademarks SAN MAI® and SAN MAI III® in connection with knives and layered steel since at least 1986. Cold Steel owns the exclusive right to use these terms in connection with those products.

I ask that you discontinue the use of the words SAN MAI and any confusingly similar trademark, and remove any references to SAN MAI from any websites and Social Media pages within 10 days from receipt of this letter. Please also remove any references to SAN MAI in printed materials before the next print edition or version of those materials is released.
I also kindly ask that you post a retraction online regarding this error, ensuring that there is no further misunderstanding within your client or fan community. Please acknowledge receipt of this letter, and advise my team of the steps you will take to help remedy this situation.

Thank you.
Best Regards,
Lynn C. Thompson
President
Cold Steel, Inc.
1-800-255-4716"
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He doesn't own the word. Nice try though.
 
Hey.....anyone here who thinks he's correct is free to challenge it. In writing to Cold Steel.....not on Bladeforums. Say exactly what you've said here, and see where the chips fall.
 
I love Cold Steel's products, but this is another example of LT being a dick for no actual reason. No, it's not trademark protection, because their trademark is NOT for "san mai".
 
the humorous part is no buyer is going to buy the cold steel over a custom, if they want a custom and vice versa. this cuts into custom guy or cold steels sales no way no how. that is a fact. people buying knives at these price points aren't uneducated buyers on knives and steels. it's pretty darn ridiculous. so be it.......
 
BlackKnight86 said:
Hey.....anyone here who thinks he's correct is free to challenge it. In writing to Cold Steel.....not on Bladeforums. Say exactly what you've said here, and see where the chips fall.
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To challenge that just means you use the term San Mai, san mai, San-Mai, and san-mai. It would be CS responsibility to defend the trademark if the trademark pertained to any of those simple "phrases". They do not they specify SAN MAI (with 3 lines) and the horizontal variant. That is a risk for CS so they won't.
 
jbmonkey said:
the humorous part is no buyer is going to buy the cold steel over a custom, if they want a custom and vice versa. this cuts into custom guy or cold steels sales no way no how. that is a fact. people buying knives at these price points aren't uneducated buyers on knives and steels. it's pretty darn ridiculous. so be it.......
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That is how I see it, as well. Which is why I think this has little to do with going after custom makers and more about not abandoning their trademark. I think the most logical thing to do is continue on, as you were.
 
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