F ball bearings! OK, maybe not so much now, opinion changing

PURPLEDC said:
... Ive told you before brandoak, if you say things that aren't true, I'm going to correct you....
Click to expand...

I know right? It seems as though your entire Existence on this forum is to "correct" people with your knowledge.

I dont think anything Ive said is considered anything but opinion, one of which agreeing with the owners of KnifArt that "If you need a low maintenance, no fail pivot, we recommend a standard bushing..."
If you disagree, than post an alternative viewpoint from someone as accredited....
 
brandoak said:
I know right? It seems as though your entire Existence on this forum is to "correct" people with your knowledge.

I dont think anything Ive said is considered anything but opinion, one of which agreeing with the owners of KnifArt that "If you need a low maintenance, no fail pivot, we recommend a standard bushing..."
If you disagree, than post an alternative viewpoint from someone as accredited....
Click to expand...

So when asked a direct question that if you answered would give others and I a sense of your knowledge of the subject you will completely ignore it and instead demand that i find testimonial from other knifemakers saying the opposite of what your quote said. I think that kinda proves my point that you dont have a good understanding of the topic and simply google for opinions of others to support what you think you all ready know. I dont need to search the internet for my own opinions. They are formed from experience in collecting, using and modifying knives. When you learn something through hands on experience you dont need to seek confirmation in the opinions of others.

Whats funny is you see me as some bully that goes around with the sole purpose of correcting others. I feel the only reason you see it this way is because you are often the target of my criticism. But it wouldnt be that way if you werent so sure of what you actually dont know. In most cases I try to help others and just have good discussion with people. Either way my point was just as easily made by you using misdirection and not answering my question as it would have been had you actually answered it. So i dont need to continue the conversation with you.
 
Aldebaran said:
What am I kidding you about? Tat I have never owned a ball bearing knife? That I will never own one? Or am I kidding you because am opining on ball bearings without using a knife without ball bearings?

Is it not possible for someone to have a valid opinion on the use of ball bearings in a knife that is derived from years of education on the use of ball bearings, extensive experience of designing equipment with ball bearings, testing ball bearings for uses in extreme environments outside of their intended design parameters, and repairing equipment that have had ball bearing failures?
Click to expand...

All of that extensive experience is devoid of the one thing that matters in this discussion.
 
palonej said:
Agreed.
Someone might not like the idea of bearings used in a knife, but without any experience with them, how can a rigid conclusion be reached??
Joe
Click to expand...

My opinion is not just from my personal experience, but also from commentary from those who have used ball bearing knives. The evidence from users is on both sides but not always with details on the the use of the knife. The engineering principles of bearings specifically recommend against the use of ball bearings in the type of use in a knife pivot. Extremely low speed static loads are to be avoided if a plain bearing can be used. This is also after decades of evaluation of bearing failures, from the recommendation of the ball bearing manufacturers themselves, and evidenced by the number of bearing failures reported by many users of ball bearing knives. The lack of complaints of washer pivots failing because of the washers being the problem, where it is not a problem of material quality, is also quite illuminating.

What is the ratio of people reporting problems with plain bearing (washers) failures to ball bearing failures?

How many ball bearing failures in knives is acceptable?

Does anyone here want to call those who have had problems with ball bearing knives liars?

Should I ignore those who have had ball bearing problems and only pay attention to those who have not had a problem?
 
jbmonkey said:
what demographic do you assume im not part of?

i can make opinions and do often. i also see posts all the time about exactly what i said and see knives for sale never used much or at all and described as such just being flipped open and closed and many of these knives being bearing ones. so i can speculate. whether right or wrong isnt so important as its an opinion and as no one can prove their opinion with this data either way. yourself included, other than random exceptions that mean nothing statistically in the big picture and i could do the exact same. all that said i respect your opinions and thoughts. always have and appreciate your knowledge on various topics.
Click to expand...

I personally feel that if you dont use bearing flippers then you have less experience with them than the people who do. Thus you really arent part of the demographic with the most experience of a product. And observing knives in a new state being flipped in the for sale section i hardly feel qualifies as evidence that people who prefer bearings dont use thier knives. I have sold many knives in new condition because i either didnt like the feel, weight, dimensions or operation of a certain knife. But just because i sell a mint condition knife means nothing about what i actually use my knives for. Because for every knife a person sells they could have five more they have in an edc rotation. Sometimes what you dont see is just as important if not more than what you do see. Also pics can be deceiving. I cant tell you how many times i have bought a knife on the secondary market that someone said was new and the pics seemed to confirm this but it was just a good angle to take the pictures from. I see quite a few sebbies, medfords and other knives with washers that i would describe the same way. I think we just tend to notice things more when our bias effects what we see and how we react.
 
I hate the way tomatoes taste! But I have never eaten one... That's what is going on here. Makes no sense what so ever, try a bearing knife from a reputable maker and wear one out, then we'll talk. My guess is it will take you a LONG time so I won't hold my breath.

Ranting about your dislike of something you've never had is a poor way to discredit bearing knives.
 
PURPLEDC said:
... I think that kinda proves my point that you dont have a good understanding of the topic and simply google for opinions of others to support what you think you all ready know. I dont need to search the internet for my own opinions. They are formed from experience in collecting, using and modifying knives. When you learn something through hands on experience you dont need to seek confirmation in the opinions of others.
Click to expand...

I know, heaven forbid if I supply the opinions of highly accredited people in the knife industry to validate my shared opinion! LOL
I mean after all, piddling around with and "modifying" knives makes you an expert far greater than that of the Connelley brothers who designed the Chris Reeve Insingo right?
Here...Ill quote them one last time for you...."If you need a low maintenance, no fail pivot, we recommend a standard bushing."--Knife Pivot Bearings - Knife Technology Explained
By Larry Connelley
http://www.knifeart.com/knifebearings.html
 
shinyedges said:
I hate the way tomatoes taste! But I have never eaten one... That's what is going on here. Makes no sense what so ever, try a bearing knife from a reputable maker and wear one out, then we'll talk. My guess is it will take you a LONG time so I won't hold my breath.

Ranting about your dislike of something you've never had is a poor way to discredit bearing knives.
Click to expand...

Poor analogy. I have used ball bearings and in many different situations. I also have reports from people that they have had problems with ball bearing knives but never had the same problem with washer knives. So I should ignore all the bad experiences that people have had, and my knowledge and experience with bearings and just go with those who say they aren't a problem? Right....

I have never used a wood saw to cut stainless steel. I never will try to. Why? Because it won't work from my experience of tools and will not work because it is not intended to be used that way. I also know a person who tried and found it not a reliable way to cut stainless steel. Are you now going to tell me I must try to do the same for me to be able to say it is not a good thing to cut stainless steel with a wood saw? Without trying I am only opining and have no basis to not try it? Really guys..........
 
Last edited:
I'm working on my first folder knive . It will have five ball bearing . When I finish this one I begin making one with micromotor, battery and electromagnet for lock ..................

23w9s21.jpg
 
brandoak said:
I know, heaven forbid if I supply the opinions of highly accredited people in the knife industry to validate my shared opinion! LOL
I mean after all, piddling around with and "modifying" knives makes you an expert far greater than that of the Connelley brothers who designed the Chris Reeve Insingo right?
Here...Ill quote them one last time for you...."If you need a low maintenance, no fail pivot, we recommend a standard bushing."--Knife Pivot Bearings - Knife Technology Explained
By Larry Connelley
http://www.knifeart.com/knifebearings.html
Click to expand...

Yes brandoak we know you can copy and paste. Beyond that remains to be seen.......... and you can belittle my experience if you want to. But im confident in my abilities and have the skill and experience to back my arguments without the help of google. And you do realize the insingo is just a sebenza with a modified blade shape right? Designed the insingo? More like "modified" a sebenza.


brandoak said:
never mind .....this is a waist of time.
Click to expand...

Of course brandoak that people who use deodorant have more experience with it than those who do. Which is precisely why those who dont use it usually cant be considered an authority on the subject. Just like in knives makers who use bearings often and have thoroughly evaluated the best way to implement them would be more of an authority than the knifemaker who doesnt. Now, i am fully able to admit that a folding knife with a washer system is more robust if lateral force were to be applied. But since lateral force is not recommended in a folding knife i wouldnt consider the bearing equipped knife to be inferior as a cutting tool.
 
Last edited:
PURPLEDC said:
I personally feel that if you dont use bearing flippers then you have less experience with them than the people who do. Thus you really arent part of the demographic with the most experience of a product. And observing knives in a new state being flipped in the for sale section i hardly feel qualifies as evidence that people who prefer bearings dont use thier knives. I have sold many knives in new condition because i either didnt like the feel, weight, dimensions or operation of a certain knife. But just because i sell a mint condition knife means nothing about what i actually use my knives for. Because for every knife a person sells they could have five more they have in an edc rotation. Sometimes what you dont see is just as important if not more than what you do see. Also pics can be deceiving. I cant tell you how many times i have bought a knife on the secondary market that someone said was new and the pics seemed to confirm this but it was just a good angle to take the pictures from. I see quite a few sebbies, medfords and other knives with washers that i would describe the same way. I think we just tend to notice things more when our bias effects what we see and how we react.
Click to expand...

i do own bearing knives from many makers and use them.. so that parts out. i have a diverse collection of brands, lock types, and styles. i enjoy them all in their own way. i have favorites of course but dont really dislike any type so much to be compleltey biased. i am human though so there is always some bias. i dont hate bearing knives was just answering the ops statements on what i see as the change of why they are so popular nowadays.

fair points not sure they all apply to me though. remember its just an opinion i stated, nothing more nothing less. thanks for the followup.
 
brandoak said:
Larry Connelley from KnifeArt wrote a simple article about knife pivot bearings here: http://www.knifeart.com/knifebearings.html

He says .....
"Overall, bearing pivots can deploy a knife with agility and smooth release. Though they do require some service and maintenance. Keep in mind that this technology has its pros and cons. If you need a low maintenance, no fail pivot, we recommend a standard bushing. If you are prepared to clean lubricate and keep your knife free from debris, a bearing pivot can provide extremely fast reduced friction opening that is particularly useful with flipper folders."

I think this sums it up very well. If you want a "NO FAIL PIVOT" go with a standard bushing type pivot, If you want to show your friends how smooth your folder/flipper opens....by all means buy and show off your silky smooth,
"problematic" bearing knife.;)
Click to expand...

Larry's take is just his opinion and it could also be a very dated opinion. There's no such thing as a "no fail pivot". If it's mechanical it'll probably fail at some point without preventative maintenance.
 
So how many bearing knives have you owned and used for any period of time?
Aldebaran said:
Poor analogy. I have used ball bearings and in many different situations. I also have reports from people that they have had problems with ball bearing knives but never had the same problem with washer knives. So I should ignore all the bad experiences that people have had, and my knowledge and experience with bearings and just go with those who say they aren't a problem? Right....

I have never used a wood saw to cut stainless steel. I never will try to. Why? Because it won't work from my experience of tools and will not work because it is not intended to be used that way. I also know a person who tried and found it not a reliable way to cut stainless steel. Are you now going to tell me I must try to do the same for me to be able to say it is not a good thing to cut stainless steel with a wood saw? Without trying I am only opining and have no basis to not try it? Really guys..........
Click to expand...
 
Mick_1KRR said:
Nobody with an ounce of common sense in their brain can deny that ball bearings are a structural downgrade. I said structural, not "functional"

Just look at the pics posted earlier, the bearings eat tracks into the titanium, it's just a fact.
Click to expand...

When I took my ZT 0561 apart after lots and lots of use, it did not have tracks like in those pics.

People sure can get tracks like that if they are fond of cranking down the pivot for no good reason.
I just lightly snug the pivot screw till there is no blade wiggle, hence I do not have ugly tracks worn into my titanium. :)
And yet it's still solid enough for batonning down a small tree, splitting a stick lengthwise for grilling a steak, or doing the amount of prying a blade can reasonably do.

I know you don't like bearings, and keep on with the refrain of them being for "toy knives."
This just is not the case though.

I do not prefer bearings on my knives, and would not pay extra for it.
But they have not proven to have any disadvantage no matter how I use them, so I won't avoid them either.

cjcK5YY.jpg


tzukwER.jpg


Haar5gG.jpg


Jxb4mq9.jpg


Couch4_zpsc78757fa.jpg


Couch5_zps32095b02.jpg


Couch3_zpsbcca6038.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top