F ball bearings! OK, maybe not so much now, opinion changing

AmosPaul said:
The problems with the Spyderco Advocate is evidence that bearings are a bad idea.

The smoothest knives I own are Hogues, which do not have bearings or washers.
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You sure about that? The x5 is said to have bearings. The spydercos advocates problem has nothing to do with the bearings but rather how the rest of the knife is made and set up.
 
jbmonkey said:
it became popular when folks stopped actually using their knives to cut stuff everyday like man has since the knife was invented, and start trying to whip them out fast and flick them open and closed while watching tv over and over as some sort of odd therapy.
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How can you speak for a demographic you arent a part of? I dont use fixed blades, and dont make shelters with them. seeing that I dont use them wouldnt it be ignorant of me to come here and make a blanket statement that guys with fixed blade only buy them because they lack the dexterity and motor skills to operate a folding knife? Like your comment, it seems to me if i were to say that it would be because I would rather seek a flaw in others to explain why they like a product that I dont. I just dont understand why some people just cant admit they simply dont like something rather than try to fabricate flaws in someone elses thinking. If you hate bearings i have no problem with that. But to think you can speak as to the reasons others gravitate to these knives and make assumptions on how they get used just seems odd.


brandoak said:
You cant argue with "bearing knife people". They will never admit that its a inferior, problematic design from the get go.
Of course Ernest Emerson is going to claim his new bearing knife is the best thing since sliced bread or compare it to a F22 Raptor, LOL
He's trying to SELL you the knife! Heck he would have made it pink and taste like Starburst candies if that what the current market was calling for!
Larry Connelley from KnifeArt wrote a simple article about knife pivot bearings here: http://www.knifeart.com/knifebearings.html

He says .....
"Overall, bearing pivots can deploy a knife with agility and smooth release. Though they do require some service and maintenance. Keep in mind that this technology has its pros and cons. If you need a low maintenance, no fail pivot, we recommend a standard bushing. If you are prepared to clean lubricate and keep your knife free from debris, a bearing pivot can provide extremely fast reduced friction opening that is particularly useful with flipper folders."

I think this sums it up very well. If you want a "NO FAIL PIVOT" go with a standard bushing type pivot, If you want to show your friends how smooth your folder/flipper opens....by all means buy and show off your silky smooth,
"problematic" bearing knife.;)
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You can argue with bearing people but it usually doesnt end the way you want because you only repeat what others say rather than having first hand experience in which to form your own opinion. One piece of testimonial from one single maker is not proof of anything. Its an opinion. One you all ready agreed with. What you see as proof others see as you searching for quotes to confirm what you all ready believe. And the examples of bearing knives with issues are due to misunderstanding and negligence. And those knives do not represent how most modern bearing flippers are manufactured today. If you want a real no fail knife you dont buy a folder in the first place.


marthinus said:
With regards to the above in bold. Whether you cold role or cut the raceways (like below) it is part of the design. If it is done properly your knife should not give you much issues.

10388022_621613391320711_784957899_n.jpg
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Exactly. People see the inside of one zt with steel balls and assume that is how they are all made. And when they see that race forming in the titanium they have unrational fears that it is going to continue until the bearings wear completely through the ti which is absolute nonsense. And I still have to laugh when the people saying they are failure prone are the guys with the least experience and they claim those who like them just have pocket jewelry. Seems like pure ignorance to me. I dont want to change anyones mind. If someone hates bearings because they see them as unneccessary i am completely fine with that. But when people flat out make things up it does get a bit annoying.
 
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ATJ999 said:
Not a bearing fan, even though most of mine do have bearings. My best option is an air compressor blow gun, works most of the time. 60% of the time, it works, every time. On a serious note, washers are much better for edc knives.
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Lol 10/10 reference


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This thread makes me feel like I missed out on a chance to rant about something silly. Can I go next?

I hate broccoli, it's too green and it's a vegetable. Fruit are so much sweeter and more colorful.

If you don't like bearings, it doesn't seem like much of a problem considering all the non-bearing knives you could just buy instead . . .

This is an Internet forum, though, so ranting about some silly thing is sort of de rigueur, so ignore me and carry on.
 
evilgreg said:
This thread makes me feel like I missed out on a chance to rant about something silly. Can I go next?

I hate broccoli, it's too green and it's a vegetable. Fruit are so much sweeter and more colorful.

If you don't like bearings, it doesn't seem like much of a problem considering all the non-bearing knives you could just buy instead . . .

This is an Internet forum, though, so ranting about some silly thing is sort of de rigueur, so ignore me and carry on.
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Down with all cruciferous veggies!


:D
 
I strongly dislike loose bearings, as they make it problematic for the user to service their own knife.

However, caged bearings are fantastic.

I've never run into issues with caged bearings or washers.

It's mostly user preference unless you are talking about flippers, which actually require bearings to function properly.
 
I prefer PB washers over teflon ones (less prone to being damaged), bearings over any washer (smoother operation), caged bearings over loose bearings (easier maintenace) and ceramic ball bearings over steel (less friction and no corrosion).
 
Bill1170 said:
The scale in that photo shows galling in the milled bearing race.
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Unfortunately not, that's just dirt from the jeweling process underway.

brandoak said:
Whats to keep or stop the bearings from continuing there "cold rolling" ......nothing. The bearing will continue to roll themselves into that soft titanium until the bearing cage is grinding into the Ti.
Some better designed ball bearing knives utilize hardened steel races for the bearings to ride on instead of the softer Titanium but even then the whole idea is inferior to the conventional pivot design.
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Cold rolling compresses material and thus Ti becomes slightly harder. On average around 0.03mm compression in Ti and then it stops. So you wont have it wear away the Ti until you hit the cage. If that was the case a few of my customs would have severe bladeplay, not the case.
 
PURPLEDC said:
...And when they see that race forming in the titanium they have unrational fears that it is going to continue until the bearings wear completely through the ti which is absolute nonsense. And I still have to laugh when the people saying they are failure prone are the guys with the least experience and they claim those who like them just have pocket jewelry. Seems like pure ignorance to me. I dont want to change anyones mind.
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Dont worry, I don't think your going to change anyone's mind. LOL
Did anyone state a fear that the bearings were going to "continue until the bearings wear completely through the ti" No they didn't. You twisted that as you do in every post of yours.
I love how you seem to know everybody's experience levels. :rolleyes:
 
evilgreg said:
Good point, let's not give ... turnips a pass, they're terrible too. ;)
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I disagree vehemently! I had an amazing salt-roasted turnip dish a couple weeks ago at a restaurant in Los Angeles (photo not mine):

BeT0pLh.jpg


The turnip was wrapped in hoja santa, encrusted with salt, baked, then cracked open and served with shiso chimichurri and a few other things. Delicious!

But back on topic: bearings are fine, washers are fine, etc.
 
I have a different take on this, I think today's folding knives (flippers) are on a continuum. I grew up with slip joints, all the blades rubbed and if not oiled and kept clean they would be very hard to open with the nail nick. With today's modern CNC machining and advanced engineering we have frame and liner lock knives that have a more robust pivot with bronze washers, teflon and caged bearings. From my experience these are all a joy to open one handed with ease with flippers, holes, discs etc. I also have OTF's that also have a place in my EDC.

Old Canastota Wagons crossing the country used wood axels (usually locust from Ohio) because of its hardness slid inside a wooden wheel. Eventually the wheels were sleeved for less friction, remember the movies with the bucket of grease dangling from the side of the wagons. Finally bearings were introduced, again to reduce friction. Who knows what the next innovation will be, however it usually it's an improvement on existing technology.
 
brandoak said:
Dont worry, I don't think your going to change anyone's mind. LOL
Did anyone state a fear that the bearings were going to "continue until the bearings wear completely through the ti" No they didn't. You twisted that as you do in every post of yours.
I love how you seem to know everybody's experience levels. :rolleyes:
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I don't know everyones experience levels. But you have put forth fallacies as fact too many times for me to think you know what you are talking about. So, tell me. What is the problem with that knife and what is going to happen if you simply leave it be and use it? You always claim to know things yet your reasons for it usually point to the opposite being the case. If you backed up your claims with actual facts and evidence to support those claims rather than that evidence pointing to you not really understanding something then I wouldn't have anything to say to you. But you take things that are absolute fact and try to dismiss them because you don't understand them. Ive told you before brandoak, if you say things that aren't true, I'm going to correct you. And if you dismiss fact rather than learn, I will point it out. If you stop pretending, I will stop correcting. There is nothing wrong with admitting you don't know something. But to sit there and be so sure of yourself and your evidence of your opinion shows a general lack of knowledge? No sorry, I don't think that should fly. Especially because someone who knows even less than you may read your posts and assume you must be correct.
 
marthinus said:
Unfortunately not, that's just dirt from the jeweling process underway.



Cold rolling compresses material and thus Ti becomes slightly harder. On average around 0.03mm compression in Ti and then it stops. So you wont have it wear away the Ti until you hit the cage. If that was the case a few of my customs would have severe bladeplay, not the case.
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I understand the cold rolling process and how by doing so makes the titanium formed race ever so slightly harder than that of the surrounding Ti but it will never be as hard as the hardened ball bearing that ride in it. I personally think the steel inserted races are the way to go when thinking about the longevity of bearing pivot knives. Ive had and used bearing knives and all of them that didn't have a steel race developed bearing dents inside the race (some brand new out of the box) from normal use resulting in a slight graduated clicking as the blade was opened slowly as the bearings rode the hills and valleys of the dented race face. Although a very minor observation, I can only imagine this becoming a more pronounced problem over time and with harder usage as the ball bearings make larger indentations in the soft race material. To be fair, the titanium could eventually gall an even groove into the race making it feel smoother but this train of thought bothers me for some reason.:(
 
PURPLEDC said:
How can you speak for a demographic you arent a part of? I dont use fixed blades, and dont make shelters with them. seeing that I dont use them wouldnt it be ignorant of me to come here and make a blanket statement that guys with fixed blade only buy them because they lack the dexterity and motor skills to operate a folding knife? Like your comment, it seems to me if i were to say that it would be because I would rather seek a flaw in others to explain why they like a product that I dont. I just dont understand why some people just cant admit they simply dont like something rather than try to fabricate flaws in someone elses thinking. If you hate bearings i have no problem with that. But to think you can speak as to the reasons others gravitate to these knives and make assumptions on how they get used just seems odd.




You can argue with bearing people but it usually doesnt end the way you want because you only repeat what others say rather than having first hand experience in which to form your own opinion. One piece of testimonial from one single maker is not proof of anything. Its an opinion. One you all ready agreed with. What you see as proof others see as you searching for quotes to confirm what you all ready believe. And the examples of bearing knives with issues are due to misunderstanding and negligence. And those knives do not represent how most modern bearing flippers are manufactured today. If you want a real no fail knife you dont buy a folder in the first place.




Exactly. People see the inside of one zt with steel balls and assume that is how they are all made. And when they see that race forming in the titanium they have unrational fears that it is going to continue until the bearings wear completely through the ti which is absolute nonsense. And I still have to laugh when the people saying they are failure prone are the guys with the least experience and they claim those who like them just have pocket jewelry. Seems like pure ignorance to me. I dont want to change anyones mind. If someone hates bearings because they see them as unneccessary i am completely fine with that. But when people flat out make things up it does get a bit annoying.
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what demographic do you assume im not part of?

i can make opinions and do often. i also see posts all the time about exactly what i said and see knives for sale never used much or at all and described as such just being flipped open and closed and many of these knives being bearing ones. so i can speculate. whether right or wrong isnt so important as its an opinion and as no one can prove their opinion with this data either way. yourself included, other than random exceptions that mean nothing statistically in the big picture and i could do the exact same. all that said i respect your opinions and thoughts. always have and appreciate your knowledge on various topics.
 
craytab said:
My 0560 and 0562cf have held up just fine, same with my washer knives.

Quote Originally Posted by Aldebaran View Post
Full disclosure: I have not owned a ball bearing pivot knife and never will.

You've got to be kidding me.....
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What am I kidding you about? Tat I have never owned a ball bearing knife? That I will never own one? Or am I kidding you because am opining on ball bearings without using a knife without ball bearings?

Is it not possible for someone to have a valid opinion on the use of ball bearings in a knife that is derived from years of education on the use of ball bearings, extensive experience of designing equipment with ball bearings, testing ball bearings for uses in extreme environments outside of their intended design parameters, and repairing equipment that have had ball bearing failures?
 
Aldebaran said:
Is it not possible for someone to have a valid opinion on the use of ball bearings in a knife that is derived from years of education on the use of ball bearings, extensive experience of designing equipment with ball bearings, testing ball bearings for uses in extreme environments outside of their intended design parameters, and repairing equipment that have had ball bearing failures?
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Nope sorry
 
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