F ball bearings! OK, maybe not so much now, opinion changing

I see some here have concerns with wear/longevity. Get a fixed blade....plus who are you kidding...like anyone here will only have one knife forever.
 
Aldebaran said:
I am so tired of finding a knife I might like only to find it has the latest stupid fashion; BALL BEARINGS! This is less than a useful "feature". IMHO ball bearings in a knife is a design flaw. Knives are to be used and not to be made for the feel of the opening. When did he smoothness of opening a knife take precedence over its ultimate utility? Many of the knives I would have ordered immediately otherwise have been disregarded and put into the ignore pile for life because of this stupid fashion.

I know I am going to get people tell me differently and call me narrow minded, but if you use your knife in real circumstances then ball bearings are going to be a problem. Ball bearings are going to accumulate crap and get sticky and gritty. Some designs have been failing out of the box because the point contacts of the balls causing brinelling or denting the surface they ride on, and they require frequent and sometimes tedious disassembly and reassembly procedures to keep them clean and lubricated.

C'mon manufacturers! Stop making fashion knives and make knives that can be relied on to work in conditions other than just flipping at the desk when bored.
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it became popular when folks stopped actually using their knives to cut stuff everyday like man has since the knife was invented, and start trying to whip them out fast and flick them open and closed while watching tv over and over as some sort of odd therapy.
 
If you're complaint about your tool rusting, then obviously you never learned that quality tools require some basic maintenance. Any knife will rust if you don't properly dry it out. I don't care if it has washers, bearings, or nothing at all.
Plus, bearings aren't all that old, so of course there are going to be a few design flaws here and there. But as someone mentioned some makers are now adding things like the metal tracks(?) to combat the bearings grooving into the titanium.
I for one am not willing to pay the high price for something like a shiro or custom that uses washers and still flips as smooth as a knife on bearings.
 
Yea verily, the ball bearing fad does indeed suck. But whereby all other fads are buried by the sands of time, this fad will be buried thusly. Have ye patience, for the market hath not, and the market shall move on, and thine sorrow with it.
 
Aldebaran said:
I have degrees? When did I say that?
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Aldebaran said:
I have extensive experience as a heavy industrial mechanic, and mechanical engineer position, and scientific instrument design engineer, automotive and motorcycle mechanic, and machinist
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I guess I assumed when you rattled off engineer behind a couple job descriptions you had the schooling and degree that gives the title of engineer. I'm not trying to shoot down your accomplishments though. I just know guys with multiple engineering degrees and a long impressive resume that are almost 40 and done nothing but go to school. And the little work they've done is part of their degree and they essentially live on a campus for well over a decade. Doctors can be similar depending on field and specialty. It really doesn't matter though and wasn't the point.

Anyways, I hope you at least try a bearing knife someday as I don't think it will be as bad as you think. And a quick rinse in a sink will clean out the little junk you may get in a really dirty environment.

If not, there are still plenty of nice knives available and it will probably end up saving you a lot of money in the end.
 
I 100% agree and don't even carry flipper knives anymore for this reason haha. They tend to be liner/frame locks which I also do not like...
 
Wow, I didn't even know that there were folders that had ball bearings in them until I saw a picture in another thread about the Spyderco model / design flaw.

I don't own a flipper and have only bought one which was a present for my teenage nephew. He likes them. To him, folder = flipper. I don't know if the one I got him was a BB knife either, it was an inexpensive Kershaw. Pretty cool looking knife though.

After looking at that thread and reading this one, I think I'll stick with washers, and automatics.
 
With OPs extensive experience as a heavy industrial mechanic, and mechanical engineer position, and scientific instrument design engineer, automotive and motorcycle mechanic, and machinist, buy a knife you want and make it on washers yourself. Hate is a strong word. If you are going to camp in dessert bring a fixed blade.
 
Mick_1KRR said:
Nobody with an ounce of common sense in their brain can deny that ball bearings are a structural downgrade. I said structural, not "functional"

Just look at the pics posted earlier, the bearings eat tracks into the titanium, it's just a fact. Sure, it wont do that if all you do is sit at your computer on bladeforums.com or the couch flipping your knife, but use it hard enough and long enough - and it will. I'm speaking from first hand experience, i had ZT's on bearings that did it and i sold them all off, won't ever buy a bearing knife again.
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With regards to the above in bold. Whether you cold role or cut the raceways (like below) it is part of the design. If it is done properly your knife should not give you much issues.

10388022_621613391320711_784957899_n.jpg
 
Not a bearing fan, even though most of mine do have bearings. My best option is an air compressor blow gun, works most of the time. 60% of the time, it works, every time. On a serious note, washers are much better for edc knives.
 
On bearing knives I don't like the way lateral force on the blade is concentrated into a small surface area (where the bearings contact the internals). This doesn't apply so much when a groove to accept the bearings is milled out.

Washer knives distribute the force over a much larger surface area.
 
You cant argue with "bearing knife people". They will never admit that its a inferior, problematic design from the get go.
Of course Ernest Emerson is going to claim his new bearing knife is the best thing since sliced bread or compare it to a F22 Raptor, LOL
He's trying to SELL you the knife! Heck he would have made it pink and taste like Starburst candies if that what the current market was calling for!
Larry Connelley from KnifeArt wrote a simple article about knife pivot bearings here: http://www.knifeart.com/knifebearings.html

He says .....
"Overall, bearing pivots can deploy a knife with agility and smooth release. Though they do require some service and maintenance. Keep in mind that this technology has its pros and cons. If you need a low maintenance, no fail pivot, we recommend a standard bushing. If you are prepared to clean lubricate and keep your knife free from debris, a bearing pivot can provide extremely fast reduced friction opening that is particularly useful with flipper folders."

I think this sums it up very well. If you want a "NO FAIL PIVOT" go with a standard bushing type pivot, If you want to show your friends how smooth your folder/flipper opens....by all means buy and show off your silky smooth,
"problematic" bearing knife.;)
 
So, a man who makes "the standard by which all other tactical knives are judged" is now suggesting that ball bearings are a HUGE step FORWARD in design and functionality.
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aka "SELLING"


It's generally a waste of time to try and convince the "other side" that they are "wrong" (You, of course, being "right.") You could try to present a rationale argument for your position, as some have, or you can rant, which tends to put off those who are undecided.
 
marthinus said:
With regards to the above in bold. Whether you cold role or cut the raceways (like below) it is part of the design. If it is done properly your knife should not give you much issues.

10388022_621613391320711_784957899_n.jpg
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The scale in that photo shows galling in the milled bearing race.
 
Thomas Linton said:
aka "SELLING"


It's generally a waste of time to try and convince the "other side" that they are "wrong" (You, of course, being "right.") You could try to present a rationale argument for your position, as some have, or you can rant, which tends to put off those who are undecided.
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stop with that logic and reasoning stuff. this is the general forum it's all emotions, chest pounding and bias here.:)
 
miso2 said:
I know that bearings are used for bikes and cars and am sure that they run in environments all dusty and gritty. How can they perform without an issue? Because they are well shielded? If so, I would wonder if we can have a sealed pivot with bearings.


Miso
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Like the Grant & Gavin Hawk Mudd?
 
Aldebaran said:
Full disclosure: I have not owned a ball bearing pivot knife and never will. I have extensive experience as a heavy industrial mechanic, and mechanical engineer position, and scientific instrument design engineer, automotive and motorcycle mechanic, and machinist. I have camped in the forest and the desert. Dirt is everywhere.

A foundry is probably one of the worst industrial environments you could ask unprotected ball bearings to survive. So you just need to blow some compressed air through the knife and squirt some special oil into to pivot. Do you have access to a compressor and oil in the middle of the desert? How about just after gutting a fish for the fire by the stream? Should you need to clean and lubricate all the time? My washer pivot knives never have had grit get into the bearing surface causing it to stick.

It is simple. A ball bearing system costs much more to implement than just a couple of washers. Washers need a drop of oil and off you go. I don't always have a compressor with me wherever I go. In high load low speed applications, plain bearings (washers) are highly preferred over ball bearings. It is an engineering principle.
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I have been saying this for awhile, and I no longer buy knives with bearings. It is frustrating, but you can find many quality knives without bearings. Knife companies produce what sells, and bearings sell. Honestly, most people use folding as light tools or toys, and save heavy work for fixed blade. When I am out doors, I always have a good fixed blade or two, and maybe a folding knife as well, but I never rely solely on it.
 
marthinus said:
With regards to the above in bold. Whether you cold role or cut the raceways (like below) it is part of the design. If it is done properly your knife should not give you much issues.

10388022_621613391320711_784957899_n.jpg
Click to expand...

Whats to keep or stop the bearings from continuing there "cold rolling" ......nothing. The bearing will continue to roll themselves into that soft titanium until the bearing cage is grinding into the Ti.
Some better designed ball bearing knives utilize hardened steel races for the bearings to ride on instead of the softer Titanium but even then the whole idea is inferior to the conventional pivot design.
 
Thomas Linton said:
aka "SELLING"


It's generally a waste of time to try and convince the "other side" that they are "wrong" (You, of course, being "right.") You could try to present a rationale argument for your position, as some have, or you can rant, which tends to put off those who are undecided.
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The only person ranting in this thread is brandoak.

best

mqqn
 
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