Fading popularity of traditional knives

jec88 said:
I agree with the op on how the people that don't really use knives tend to carry modern and the people that tend to use knives alot tend to use a traditional. I just got in a deer lease that is about as backwoods as it can get. Most of the older guys are in the 40=60 year age group and bring their sons. Most of the men are loggers, pipeliners, linemen, cattle and poultry farmers and the only knives I've seen have been stockman and trappers. The kids are carrying what their dads are carrying. One thing I found odd was that even a fixed blade seems out of place. I know on the forums when you see a post about what to use for hunting and a folder is rarely suggested, but around here, that is about all that is used for hunting. One kid was carrying a fixed blade and used it to open a sack and that drew some Daniel Boone/your going to cut your leg off, comments from the older men.
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I tend to agree as well with the comparison in terms of regular use. As far as hunting goes, I used a slippie for many years before I even owned a fixed blade of any kind. That has changed, but I feel totally comfortable using a slippie for hunting chores. The slippie (now) is the backup blade that I KNOW I can depend on to do the job if I need to use it. I have no problem cleaning them either and could never really understand that being such a big issue except to people who generally don't use their knives much.
 
CVamberbonehead said:
Thats very possible, I dont have anything like that so I dont know. If a steel like that was put into a traditional pocket knife though, imagine the price jump.. You would be paying for a knife with expensive materials and lots of hand work going into it. It would be pricey, where as good carbon steel is cheap and easy to work for the maker. No complex and expensive heat treat procedures either. So, if someone wants a traditional with a high tech steel like that, the best option for buyers and makers alike would be to get a custom knife made.
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For sure it may not be something everyone wants but a "super steel" isn't automaticly a pain in the neck.

I am sure there are lots of folks in Florida and other humid sub tropical locations who'd love more access too stainless traditonal knives in the vein of GEC vs their current options. SAKs are great but they're low on the enjoyment chart.

A good compromise in the traditionals would be the Lionsteel runs that Collector Knives has been importing. They're a great modern steel, modern production slip joint with a host of options in blade shape and in cover material. The only downside is they're exclusive to one dealer who doesn't sell outside of the USA. A few have tricked out to Canada and Europe thanks to members on here doing the porch thing but not a lot.

Nature and Knife Knuts both abhor a vacuum. If someone wants or needs a knife they're going to get one and if all they can access is a modern one then that's what they'll get.
 
I read this whole thread and really enjoyed it until the hipster bashing started.
To the OPs question, I'd argue that traditionals are not dying out and that is at least in part due to the younger urban generation choosing traditional knives. I'm in an urban area and lots of 20-30 somethings I know carry small traditionals or swiss army knives on keychains, if for no other reason because they can't fit a modern folder into their skinny jeans. Some of the urban younger generation actually have common sense and simply don't see the need for a modern one-hand-opener with a huge blade.
I can think of a couple of high-ish-end clothing stores in San Francisco I recently visited that carry a few of traditional knives (and only traditional knives). I'd say it's partly because the traditional knife fits an aesthetic that the store is tailored for. But someone with some disposable income who is buying $200 jeans and $150 shirts can look at the display case by the checkout, see a $60 Otter anchor knife or $20 Opinel and say "that'd be useful," buy it even if its marked up and actually use it (even if it just sits in a junk drawer in their apartment and opens packages). That's a win in my book, and proof traditionals are not dying out, at least for now.
 
CVamberbonehead said:
Im seeing a lot of talk about modern stainless steels being superior, and how makers should use that instead of carbon steel. I see your point guys, but on the other hand...
Supers steels are a pain in the neck! If you actually use a knife, you WILL dull it. Its just a matter of time. With 1095, you can get back a razor edge in 5 minutes. You can use a rock, a mug bottom, the edge of your car window, you can even get a decent stropping on the leg of your jeans. With a modern steel, you just have to make do with a dull knife (which is dangerous) until you can get back to your expensive high tech sharpening system. That sucks.
Not everyone wants to buy a worksharp either. I dont. I use stones, just like my dad taught me. I use a diamond stone on my harder stainless steels.
Plus, some of us like the well used look of patina'ed carbon steel. Just saying, it looks pretty cool. Lol
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I hear that argument a lot and it's absolutely the worst possible argument you could use. You either have no experience with the newer super steels and you're just passing on hear say. Or you tried these new super steels with out having the correct sharpening equipment.

A couple months ago I did some remodeling on Mom's house, I used the same Manly Wasp S90V the whole two weeks. Two 3'x4'x18” double wall boxes that held counter tops and the 1” to 3” styrofoam in it. 4 ceiling fan boxes and that styrofoam. A few blister packs and cut one bathroom trash can up for plastic shims then cut it in half for disposal. Debured the main plumbing stack to replace a section of it.
Cut close to 2 dozen saplings from the bushes and then split those in half. Fifteen bags of mulch and cut a 3/4” branch from a maple to make a plug for a 5 gallon oil can. Along with cleaning the storage room and breaking down those boxes and trash.
That's most of the big stuff but the point is two months later the knife will still cleanly cut paper. Someday it will take me 15 minutes to get the KME out sharpen it and put the KME back in it;s box.

How many times and how much time would you spend sharpening your 1095 on that rock or mug bottom of unknown grit.
I take pride in a good working edge and enjoy a steels performance, it's an extension of the hobby. I expect more from a blade than patina, that makes it look like the knife worked. I expect the knife to work.

It's only a pain to reprofile these so called super steels but once sharp they sharpen quickly with the right tools.
Plus some of us think a black splotchy patina looks like bull poop. Patina makes a knife look like the owner was to lazy to take care of it.
 
Dean51 said:
I hear that argument a lot and it's absolutely the worst possible argument you could use. You either have no experience with the newer super steels and you're just passing on hear say. Or you tried these new super steels with out having the correct sharpening equipment.

A couple months ago I did some remodeling on Mom's house, I used the same Manly Wasp S90V the whole two weeks. Two 3'x4'x18” double wall boxes that held counter tops and the 1” to 3” styrofoam in it. 4 ceiling fan boxes and that styrofoam. A few blister packs and cut one bathroom trash can up for plastic shims then cut it in half for disposal. Debured the main plumbing stack to replace a section of it.
Cut close to 2 dozen saplings from the bushes and then split those in half. Fifteen bags of mulch and cut a 3/4” branch from a maple to make a plug for a 5 gallon oil can. Along with cleaning the storage room and breaking down those boxes and trash.
That's most of the big stuff but the point is two months later the knife will still cleanly cut paper. Someday it will take me 15 minutes to get the KME out sharpen it and put the KME back in it;s box.

How many times and how much time would you spend sharpening your 1095 on that rock or mug bottom of unknown grit.
I take pride in a good working edge and enjoy a steels performance, it's an extension of the hobby. I expect more from a blade than patina, that makes it look like the knife worked. I expect the knife to work.

It's only a pain to reprofile these so called super steels but once sharp they sharpen quickly with the right tools.
Plus some of us think a black splotchy patina looks like bull poop. Patina makes a knife look like the owner was to lazy to take care of it.
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :) I do have experience with modern steel though, and I do use my knives. I am a hunter, angler and trapper, my knives work for a living lol. My knives dont stay new and shiny, and yes they get a patina and the covers wear smooth and darken. Personally, I like that, just my tastes.
The knife in my pocket right now is D2 (not super steel but hard to sharpen), I have 2 knives at home with CTS-XHP and they are a bear to sharpen as well. As far as equipment, the truly good stuff you need for those harder steels can be pretty pricey, adding hidden costs onto a knife like that.
As far as keeping a good working edge, thats an issue with the high tech steels I think. Some of them hold an edge a long time, thats true, but its not the razor edge I want. Id rather touch up a truly sharp edge fairly often than keep a "decent" edge forever. Good carbon steel will keep an edge through dressing and butchering a deer, so thats good enough for me. After I'm done, I can get it back to scary sharp and clean in a minute with just a cheap Arkansas stone and some water.
I think we disagree because we have different needs. It sounds like your knives just do different work than mine, but I can see where youre coming from. :)
 
Dean51 said:
I hear that argument a lot and it's absolutely the worst possible argument you could use. You either have no experience with the newer super steels and you're just passing on hear say. Or you tried these new super steels with out having the correct sharpening equipment.

A couple months ago I did some remodeling on Mom's house, I used the same Manly Wasp S90V the whole two weeks. Two 3'x4'x18” double wall boxes that held counter tops and the 1” to 3” styrofoam in it. 4 ceiling fan boxes and that styrofoam. A few blister packs and cut one bathroom trash can up for plastic shims then cut it in half for disposal. Debured the main plumbing stack to replace a section of it.
Cut close to 2 dozen saplings from the bushes and then split those in half. Fifteen bags of mulch and cut a 3/4” branch from a maple to make a plug for a 5 gallon oil can. Along with cleaning the storage room and breaking down those boxes and trash.
That's most of the big stuff but the point is two months later the knife will still cleanly cut paper. Someday it will take me 15 minutes to get the KME out sharpen it and put the KME back in it;s box.

How many times and how much time would you spend sharpening your 1095 on that rock or mug bottom of unknown grit.
I take pride in a good working edge and enjoy a steels performance, it's an extension of the hobby. I expect more from a blade than patina, that makes it look like the knife worked. I expect the knife to work.

It's only a pain to reprofile these so called super steels but once sharp they sharpen quickly with the right tools.
Plus some of us think a black splotchy patina looks like bull poop. Patina makes a knife look like the owner was to lazy to take care of it.
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I can do 10 passes on a strop with my Case Peanut or GEC 15 in about 15 seconds and get it back to shaving sharp. Do I have a $200 KME setup? Yes. Do I like it? Yes. Do I want to spend 15-20 minutes sharpening my knives? Not really.

Even if the aggregate of how often I have to make those 10 passes on a strop compared to how infrequently I would spend that 15-20 minutes on the KME makes the super steel more efficient in the long run, I don't care. Just like I'd rather pick up after myself every time I make a mess rather than waiting for my house to become a train wreck before I spend half the day cleaning.
 
Wurrwulf said:
I can do 10 passes on a strop with my Case Peanut or GEC 15 in about 15 seconds and get it back to shaving sharp. Do I have a $200 KME setup? Yes. Do I like it? Yes. Do I want to spend 15-20 minutes sharpening my knives? Not really.

Even if the aggregate of how often I have to make those 10 passes on a strop compared to how infrequently I would spend that 15-20 minutes on the KME makes the super steel more efficient in the long run, I don't care. Just like I'd rather pick up after myself every time I make a mess rather than waiting for my house to become a train wreck before I spend half the day cleaning.
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I'm glad you enjoy your steel of choice.
Do you think having a choice of better steels in a traditional is a bad thing?
 
CVamberbonehead said:
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. :) I do have experience with modern steel though, and I do use my knives. I am a hunter, angler and trapper, my knives work for a living lol. My knives dont stay new and shiny, and yes they get a patina and the covers wear smooth and darken. Personally, I like that, just my tastes.
The knife in my pocket right now is D2 (not super steel but hard to sharpen), I have 2 knives at home with CTS-XHP and they are a bear to sharpen as well. As far as equipment, the truly good stuff you need for those harder steels can be pretty pricey, adding hidden costs onto a knife like that.
As far as keeping a good working edge, thats an issue with the high tech steels I think. Some of them hold an edge a long time, thats true, but its not the razor edge I want. Id rather touch up a truly sharp edge fairly often than keep a "decent" edge forever. Good carbon steel will keep an edge through dressing and butchering a deer, so thats good enough for me. After I'm done, I can get it back to scary sharp and clean in a minute with just a cheap Arkansas stone and some water.
I think we disagree because we have different needs. It sounds like your knives just do different work than mine, but I can see where youre coming from. :)
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I think we just have different ways of enjoy the hobby and different needs.
I did enough research to know I would need new sharpening equipment, so the cost was not hidden.

It's been a while since I went deer hunting but the last knife I used was 1095. It did the job.

Razor edge, truly sharp edge, decent edge, shaving sharp, everyone has their own interpretation of those terms.
I use working edge to describe my edges, I'm not one to polish an edge.

1095, AUS-8, a 320 Aluminum oxide stone works.
D2 and other mid grade non vanadium steels, I use a 600 Silicon Carbide stone.
S30v, M390, S90v I use Silicon Carbide to profile and then finish with 600 diamond.

I would never recommend S90V to some one with out telling them what they needed to go along with it. Even then only if they were an experienced sharpener. Most of the time I'll recommend 1095 or AUS-8 as steels for a new or casual user.

It doesn't mater what steel you use as long as it suits your needs and it adds to your knife enjoyment. As knife knuts we should recommend a good steel, not our favorite steel.
Skin with 1095 or D2 they'll both get the job done.

I do sometimes react to blanket statements. ;)

Mention M390 on a traditional and some react by saying “carbon was good enough for my grandfather and father so it's good enough for me and should be good enough for all traditional's. Because it was period.
Okay that's cool but does it have to be good enough for everyone? Some new stainless steel might give traditional's the boost in sales they need. Even if that new steel is just AUS-8. Anything but true sharp.
 
Wurrwulf said:
I can do 10 passes on a strop with my Case Peanut or GEC 15 in about 15 seconds and get it back to shaving sharp. Do I have a $200 KME setup? Yes. Do I like it? Yes. Do I want to spend 15-20 minutes sharpening my knives? Not really.

Even if the aggregate of how often I have to make those 10 passes on a strop compared to how infrequently I would spend that 15-20 minutes on the KME makes the super steel more efficient in the long run, I don't care. Just like I'd rather pick up after myself every time I make a mess rather than waiting for my house to become a train wreck before I spend half the day cleaning.
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Good analogy. I agree, for me its easier to just maintain an edge rather than fully resharpening.
 
Its interesting to me that by all accounts, the high end traditional market is growing while the low end of the market has been taken over by modern knives. Thats my understanding from what Ive gathered here, and also from personal experience. I suppose that makes sense considering its easier to make a passable modern knife.
What about fixed blades though??
 
Phew, hot opinions on both sides, but interesting discussion.
I'm glad I got one of the IRJ's in CPM 154 when they were availible.
IMGP6140.JPG
It is a favorite in my pocket when I go out in the wet.
Since I got the GEC #78 early this year, it has kicked the IRJ out of the pocket.
IMGP6412.JPG
The steel is better on the IRJ, but the design is better on the #78.
I'm happy to have the choice of modern CPM steel and 1095 carbon both in traditional designs.

I do have a Benchmade Mini Presidio and i think it's a high quality knife, but I have never carried it and probably never will.


Regards
Mikael
 
With respect to steels, some companies are producing traditional knives with steels other than 1095 (or other carbon). I have three Laguioles from Fontenille-Pataud, for example, that use Sandvik 14c28n. A couple of weeks ago, I got an A.G. Russell Pinched Peanut in VG10. I recently pre-ordered a Boy's Knife from the resurrected Canal Street Cutlery with 154CM. Of course, lots of people here pre-ordered the Buck forum knife with CPM154. Maybe not the latest and greatest super steels, but good modern stainless.

[Edit to add: Mikael posted while I was writing this, but another good example!]
 
Since the OP asked about fixed blades, I've found it interesting that traditional steel has stayed remarkably prevalent on modern fixed blade knives. Think of ESEE or Ontario still using 1095 on outdoors and survival knives as a good example. Yeah the blades are normally coated but these type of fixed blades seem to be real popular, both on store shelves and on various forums. I've seen a lot of camping and bushcraft forum posts about ESEE or Ontario knives being great for outdoors use, even though they use "traditional" steel. These are generally not knife people either.
Interesting that a lot of backpackers using the most modern fabrics and materials on clothes and gear use good ol' 1095 for one of their most important pieces of equipment.
 
I have seen a big increase in traditional patterned knives with modern materials. The slipjoint series from lionsteel comes to mind, as well as some of the customs from pena knives. I have also been eyeing a collaboration between Elijah Isham and WE knives coming out soon. This idea is particularly interesting to me because it combines the clean lines and simple function of the traditional knives with the simpler maintenance requirements of the modern materials. Basically creates a simpler knife overall. Plus some of the newer handle materials are real sharp looking and the performance of some of the steels is incredible

Seems like a win/win but thats just my 2 cents
 
Mikael W said:
Phew, hot opinions on both sides, but interesting discussion.
I'm glad I got one of the IRJ's in CPM 154 when they were availible.
View attachment 970229
It is a favorite in my pocket when I go out in the wet.
Since I got the GEC #78 early this year, it has kicked the IRJ out of the pocket.
View attachment 970230
The steel is better on the IRJ, but the design is better on the #78.
I'm happy to have the choice of modern CPM steel and 1095 carbon both in traditional designs.

I do have a Benchmade Mini Presidio and i think it's a high quality knife, but I have never carried it and probably never will.


Regards
Mikael
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:eek: wow! Those are nice!
 
ddavis said:
Since the OP asked about fixed blades, I've found it interesting that traditional steel has stayed remarkably prevalent on modern fixed blade knives. Think of ESEE or Ontario still using 1095 on outdoors and survival knives as a good example. Yeah the blades are normally coated but these type of fixed blades seem to be real popular, both on store shelves and on various forums. I've seen a lot of camping and bushcraft forum posts about ESEE or Ontario knives being great for outdoors use, even though they use "traditional" steel. These are generally not knife people either.
Interesting that a lot of backpackers using the most modern fabrics and materials on clothes and gear use good ol' 1095 for one of their most important pieces of equipment.
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Good point, I hadnt even thought about this. I guess I would call these sort of knives hybrids. Old school steel with modern updates. Cool.
 
I'm not seeing where the arguments for steel choice in traditionals is valid? I've seen many traditional patterns with some pretty high quality stainless steel blades being posted all the time. You just have to be willing to pay for them. Okay, maybe they are not the CPM-5000-VR-Crew-Max steels, but they are high quality and very serviceable. Just open up the wallets :)
 
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