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Benchmade should probably try to trademark the axis lock like spyderco did the hole. That'd fix a lot of stuff and most benchmade knives have it anyway, sooo....
 
bodog said:
Benchmade should probably try to trademark the axis lock like spyderco did the hole. That'd fix a lot of stuff and most benchmade knives have it anyway, sooo....
Click to expand...

"Axis Lock" is Trademarked
 
Hackenslash said:
"Axis Lock" is Trademarked
Click to expand...

It is my understanding that Benchmade actually registered the term "Axis" for trademark. Not "Axis Lock". That way Benchmade can go after anyone that uses the term in any marketing or advertising. Pretty smart, really. Simple too.
 
robgmn said:
A utility patent expires 20 years after the FILING DATE (design patents are even shorter).
The FILING DATE was prior to yesterday's date, but in 1996.
Therefore IT IS MORE THAN 20 YEARS SINCE THE FILING DATE.

Can you accept that as fact, or will you keep arguing your unsubstantiated nonsense as if it WERE fact?
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Rob, I am not trying to enter into any kind of fight but I have seen many people over the last couple years state this 20 year period like it is a simple mechanical calculation and it is not. At minimum, there are adjustments made to patents due to delays in prosecution. This happens all the time. There are also other ways to gain patent extension, but are probably not relevant as they most likely do not apply to this particular patent. I have never seen one of the patents I deal with not get an extended period due to prosecutorial delays. So have been multiple months and some have added up to years. I am sure there are some patents which do not get any adjustment, and there is some chance this is one of them so it might be expired, but it could easiy not be.

There could very well be a period of months to a couple years to go before this patent expires.
 
bodog said:
The design itself, not the name. Like I said, the round hole in a Spyderco knife is trademarked, not the name "spyderhole"
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The spyderco hole is trademarked as a design element. That is why it is present on their fixed blades. You cannot use a trademark on a functional element in order to sidestep patent limitations. That is why oval holes are not in violation of spyderco's rights.


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Don't trademarks have to be font & colour specific? It can't just be the word "axis" in any form, they have to register something very specific.
 
Wilsonhome said:
Rob, I am not trying to enter into any kind of fight but I have seen many people over the last couple years state this 20 year period like it is a simple mechanical calculation and it is not. At minimum, there are adjustments made to patents due to delays in prosecution. This happens all the time. There are also other ways to gain patent extension, but are probably not relevant as they most likely do not apply to this particular patent. I have never seen one of the patents I deal with not get an extended period due to prosecutorial delays. So have been multiple months and some have added up to years. I am sure there are some patents which do not get any adjustment, and there is some chance this is one of them so it might be expired, but it could easiy not be.

There could very well be a period of months to a couple years to go before this patent expires.
Click to expand...

No worries. As a way of explanation, I was basing that mechanical calculation on information pulled directly from the US Patent Office website:
2701 Patent Term [R-07.2015]
35 U.S.C. 154 Contents and term of patent; provisional rights.
(a) IN GENERAL.—
*****
(2) TERM.—Subject to the payment of fees under this title, such grant shall be for a term beginning on the date on which the patent issues and ending 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States or, if the application contains a specific reference to an earlier filed application or applications under section 120, 121, 365(c), or 386(c) from the date on which the earliest such application was filed.

The USPTO states that the calculation of expiration is based on a file date, and they also provide a file date for a patent. They also state the 20 years window for a design patent.
Putting those factors together is where I come up with the 20 year life, and that 20 years has passed.
 
robgmn said:
No worries. As a way of explanation, I was basing that mechanical calculation on information pulled directly from the US Patent Office website:
2701 Patent Term [R-07.2015]
35 U.S.C. 154 Contents and term of patent; provisional rights.
(a) IN GENERAL.—
*****
(2) TERM.—Subject to the payment of fees under this title, such grant shall be for a term beginning on the date on which the patent issues and ending 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States or, if the application contains a specific reference to an earlier filed application or applications under section 120, 121, 365(c), or 386(c) from the date on which the earliest such application was filed.

The USPTO states that the calculation of expiration is based on a file date, and they also provide a file date for a patent. They also state the 20 years window for a design patent.
Putting those factors together is where I come up with the 20 year life, and that 20 years has passed.
Click to expand...

You are correct on your baseline calculation, however PTA extensions add to this timeframe. I pulled the below from Wikipedia, but you can find it in less summarized form on the US Patent office website.

"A Patent term adjustment (PTA). Its intention is to accommodate for delays caused by the US patent office during the Prosecution of a US patent application. The total PTA is an addition to the 20-year lifespan of a US patent. The delays are broadly classified into 4 types:

Type A - this delay is caused when USPTO fails to reply within the time period provided. As per US Patent law USPTO has to issue the First Office action within 14 months of filing of the application. All other office actions has to be issued within 4 months of receipt of an applicant response. Failing to this condition, type A delay will accounted.

Type B - USPTO estimates the normal prosecution period of an application to be 3 years, i.e. between the date of filing of the application and the issue of the patent .If the prosecution exceeds this time, then Type B delay come into place.Type B delay will calculated if no RCE (Request For Continued Examination) is filed Prior to completion of 3-year period.If the first RCE is filed after 3-year period then type B delay will be calculated up to the date of filing of RCE.

Type C - This type of delay is calculated in the events of secrecy orders or interferences.

Applicant Delay - Applicant delay occurs when the applicant fails to respond to the office action within 3 months of mailing of an Office action(OA).

Calculation:

Type A delay= Date of issuance of office Action -(Date of receipt of applicant response + 4 Months/14 Months)
Type B delay=Date of issue of Patent/Date of filing of first RCE - (Date of filing of application + 3 years)
Total PTA[13] =Type A+Type B + Type C - Applicant Delay -overlapping delays"

The patent office is very busy and delays are not uncommon.

In addition,there are other ways to add time to a patent, but I doubt most of them apply here.
 
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Armadew said:
This. My god.
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That would be a two-post thread :-)

"I think people should all act decently"

"You are 100% correct"

closed.gif
 
Here's my admission of error based on WilsonHome's post (which led me down a new path of discovery) and the USPTO calculator:
The patent expires in ~8 months on June 10, 2017.

I was following the primary printed rule that the patent expires 20 years after filing date, as offered by the USPTO (and quoted in a previous post). Additional text on their website provides for this:
"This patent term provision is referred to as the “twenty-year term.” Design patents have a term of fourteen years from the date of patent grant, except for any design patent issued from applications filed on or after May 13, 2015 (the date of entry into force of the 1999 Geneva Act of the Hague Agreement Concerning the International Registration of Industrial Designs (“Hague Agreement”) as to the United States) has a term of fifteen years from the date of patent grant (see Public Law 112-211)."

The Grant date of Patent 6574869 (issued based on application US5737841 A) is June 10, 2003.
I plugged all of the numbers into the USPTO calculator and it gave the expiration date of June 10, 2017.

Craytab suggested that I support counterfeiting because I believe that once a patent is expired, it is fair game (and I do support that, as it is legal).
In this particualr case, I was under the incorrect belief (based on all info I had gathered) that the patent expired in July of this year, thus I had no problem if any other company used the idea. It would be legal.
As I stand corrected, I now believe that it is not fair game, and no US company (or importer) should offer for sale until July 11, 2017 a knife that copies the locking method
that was patented by McHenry and licensed to Benchmade.
 
So...June 11, 2017. At the earliest, without any of the Patent term adjustments mentioned above by Wilsonhome which can add up to 3 years. Yeah, it looks like the Axis Lock continues to be out of play for legit knife makers. Thanks for the research.
 
If/when it expires, the companies who were using it before won't all of a sudden become OK (in my book). Thieves are thieves are thieves.
 
Armadew said:
If/when it expires, the companies who were using it before won't all of a sudden become OK (in my book). Thieves are thieves are thieves.
Click to expand...

That is correct.
Break a law before it changes, and the change doesn't expunge your infraction.
As far as being "OK", that goes in many directions. Legality and morality are very separate things, but people often intermingle them in their beliefs. Examples abound in this and other forums.

In the US, patent expiration is not an "If", it's definitely a "when".
Outside of the US, the US patent holds no legal authority (much like the US drinking age of 21 carries no weight in Switzerland, and Switzerland's age of 16 carries no weight in the US).
Copy away and do so legally outside of the US, as long as you don't try to sell it in the US.

So, when the patent expires, all of those Chinese knives that copied the lock, will be legal to sell in the US after patent expiration, even if made BEFORE the expiration.
Knives made in the US before the expiration would technically be illegal to sell as they infringed on the patent at the time of production.
Would Benchmade pursue a lawsuit based on production date? Who knows?
 
I'm still in the boat of I'll believe it when I see it. That calculator is just that. Until there is litigation or unchallenged use in the states of the axis lock all of this is speculation. I mean we went from vehement speculation it was expired to speculating it is not expired. Who knows. I'll choose the conservative path for now in that until an actual authority on the subject rules, the patent is in enforcement.
 
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