Falkniven F1 3G - Sadly disappointed

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jdk1 said:
I'll make a couple of points and this is just MY opinion:

1.- A knife marketed as a "survival" or "hard use outdoors" blade should be held to a much higher standard. I realize companies can call whatever they make whatever they want. I think they should be held to the standard they themselves have set with their marketing.

2.- We don't know what happened here, as stated by the OP, and the OP wasn't really being harsh in his critique IMHO. I would be very dismayed if I had done what he said he did, and I have no reason to question his account, and it resulted in that damage.

3. I have seen many complaints about FK chipping and such. I've seen enough that I will not buy one, but that's just me. This is an online knife community. Posts like this are why we are here. I will also refer to the above statement. If a knife is marketed for hard use, but fails someone under intial light use (or heavy use for that matter), I want to hear about it. That doesn't mean the knife is crap, but having information available allows us to see if a pattern exists. I really hate that it's risky to even post a knife failure because it immediately brings howls of: you didn't know what you were doing, you used the wrong tool, there's no way that brand could ever fail, etc....

4.- Just because a country's military uses something, doesn't mean that it's the best. Ask anyone who's been in the military. A lot of things go into that decision, domestic manufacture being huge for logistical and nationalistic reasons, and cost being the usual deciding factor.

5.I guess I'm getting cranky, but I see the same behavior again and again. It gets old. Anyway, about the leather. People have used leather forever. No one can say it's not to be used in poor conditions. It will wear out faster and there are better options, but leather does work. If you want to use leather in all conditions, it requires care. If you boil the entire sheath in bee's wax, it will help it hold up to a lot of harsh weather. The creator of SnowSeal once told me about seeing leather harnesses the ancient Egyptians used. They would boil them in wax and they were usable to this day. Take care.
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jdk1

1.Regarding the QC standard at the Fällkniven company, Peter has told me over the phone that they have a 1 of 1000 ratio of faulty knives.
Those knives are also replaced with new products.
I think this is as a pretty high standard of quality!

2.This is the trouble with threads like this, as it takes a long time before we get the facts on the table.

3.I have personal first hand experience with a large number of differrent knives and from various brands.
During the last 6 years I have used at least 20 differrent models from Fällkniven.
All payed for with my own hardearned cash.
The Fällkniven models are the knives that gets the least damage of any knife I've tried.
Some knives from Bark River equals the FK's , but only after modification of the geometry.
My Fällkniven knives have NOT chipped or rolled, not even under hard work for hours in chopping Maplewood!

I think this subject has more to do with what Mete speaks about as a general for the knifeindustry.
It's a totally separate subject and I think it shouldn't be mixed with a single unfortunate customers warranty issues.
Bottomline: Fällkniven knives doesn't chip more than any other comparable knife from other companys.

4.I agree.

5.I carry my F1 in a waterprotected leathersheath from KSF, but I don't expose it to longterm submerging in water.
Cool about the Egyptians!:thumbup:

Regards
Mikael
 
kinskibrain said:
1 - Whenever a knife model of any brand gets popular you get a lot of forum threads with unlucky people who have problems and they are usually quite vocal. That doesn't necessarily that the product is flawed.

2 - We don't don't how the tip got broken. The OP has not stated even though posters have asked several times. There are a couple of things that make me suspicious:

3 - Why bring a leather sheath into water?
4 - It looks like there are marks on the cutting edge from a firesteel(!).
5 - That's some really ugly rust spots on a stainless knife.
6 - If you draw comparisons regarding rust resistance with soft kitchen knives, like the OP does in the first post, it shows you know little on steel.

7 - It is possible there is error in the manufacture and in that case it's a win win.

8 - All I have seen so far, and I'm just a guy on the internet just like you, is someone who can't take care of a knife. The F1 is a ridiculously strong knife. It's an overbuilt survival knife. That doesn't mean you should abuse it. What is a survival knife? This is a survival knife.

Think this is a sour post?

9 - Well, I understand if one is angry about ones knife breaking for whatever reason.

10 - I don't think it is right to then proceed posting publicly how a product is a "bluff", and demand a new knife, when all I have seen in this thread is evidence of user error.

11 -I might be mistaken,

perhaps the tip broke from a perfectly legit task, perhaps those edge marks is not from a fire steel, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

12 - I just comment on what I can see and read. OP think I am unfair? Perhaps I am, perhaps you could have explained what caused the damage. Otherwise expect reactions like this one when you go out and call a company a bluff in the face of users who have hard used the F1 for years.
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1 - Agreed, this thread was an UNBIASED, honest review of the Falkniven F1 3G based on personal experience.

2 - I have said what I was doing and what I was not doing, so yes I HAVE answered the question

3 - I take my knife where I might need it, swimming through the canyon I felt I may need my knife

4 - I did not and would never use the cutting edge of a knife to strike a firesteel with. I did however use the spine of the knife with a fire steel

5 - Agreed, after 1 day especially

6 - I drew a comparison between the the tip of the knife breaking off and that I had never even seen that happen on a kitchen knife, not on the rust resistance of the blade, You did that!

7 - Never said anything different

8 - Exactly mate, your just a guy on the internet who doesn't know anything about me or how i treat my knives, you base your opinion on how i treat my knives on the review i made on this knife? I told you how I treated the knife, thats why I made the thread

9 - Do you really?

10 - Please tell me again how you came to your solid conclusion of user error based on this thread

11 - Yes you are

12 - no you don't, you assume things based on my pictures without reading the post correctly where you will find my original text on what I was doing, what I was not doing and what I think happened. Forget about the leather, I didn't make a big deal out of it and yes taking it into water was probably asking for it to become deformed.

I don't think your being unfair, but I do think you should read the post before commenting, As I said to another member I am glad you have had no problems with your F1. I have no beef with Falkniven, I posted a knife review on a knife site, isn't that what people do here or do they make out people are lying or somehow incompetent when they say they had problems with a knife?

While your sat there on the internet making claims against me, polishing your well used F1 im out in the bush using the product in slightly more testing situations and for me, it failed. Falkniven have asked me to send them the knife, they were polite to me and im waiting to see what happens.
 
That sux, killer knives and I hate to hear about your experience.
I know it happens sometimes.

That said, I give my knives one he$$ of a workout, and my S1 (VG10) is bar none one of the best I have ever used.

Going on 10 years!

I completely understand your frustration and I would not be happy either, that said do not give up on this brand.
I doubt you can find better for the money.
I have a hard time buying custom knives because of my experience with FK.
 
The Welshman said:
Ok, im a humble 'traveller' with a love of knives and luckily my life wasn't depending on it, BUT what if i had been a Swedish pilot stuck in a burning cockpit trying to dig cut my way out with a broken tip or trying to hunt game, make a hole in a piece of wood etc etc etc the knife failed. Im not going to get hung up on a brand and stick up for a knife that in my PERSONAL experience has failed me.
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I call BS on all this talk of knife failure.



This knife still seams quite survivable to me as a survival knife,

...in fact, I bet it still cuts better then all those "Sharpened Pry-bar" survival knives.



Being the Op can't even figure out how he damaged the tip,

...I suspect some ham fisted abuse was part of the equation.



Review? No, more like wine and cheese.



No worries though, Fallkniven takes care of its customers.





Big Mike
 
I like the leather hone sold at Knives ship Free. They sell a kit with the hone and compound (black and green). I found with a bit of practice I can get my knives hair popping sharp with a few minutes on the hone.
 
Looks to be a poor grinding job from the factory. Too thin and/or heat buildup. Anyone looking at the brand instead of the edge is doing it wrong. Fallkniven didn't make the steel, and they didn't even make the knife.
 
Mikael W said:
jdk1

1.Regarding the QC standard at the Fällkniven company, Peter has told me over the phone that they have a 1 of 1000 ratio of faulty knives.
Those knives are also replaced with new products.
I think this is as a pretty high standard of quality!

2.This is the trouble with threads like this, as it takes a long time before we get the facts on the table.

3.I have personal first hand experience with a large number of differrent knives and from various brands.
During the last 6 years I have used at least 20 differrent models from Fällkniven.
All payed for with my own hardearned cash.
The Fällkniven models are the knives that gets the least damage of any knife I've tried.
Some knives from Bark River equals the FK's , but only after modification of the geometry.
My Fällkniven knives have NOT chipped or rolled, not even under hard work for hours in chopping Maplewood!

I think this subject has more to do with what Mete speaks about as a general for the knifeindustry.
It's a totally separate subject and I think it shouldn't be mixed with a single unfortunate customers warranty issues.
Bottomline: Fällkniven knives doesn't chip more than any other comparable knife from other companys.

4.I agree.

5.I carry my F1 in a waterprotected leathersheath from KSF, but I don't expose it to longterm submerging in water.
Cool about the Egyptians!:thumbup:

Regards
Mikael
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I appreciate your response. I have no experience with the brand. It has a very solid reputation among many. I have read of some problems, but that goes for almost any company. Number 1 in my post was mainly written for anyone believing a maker should get a "break" for some reason. You see knives marketed for hard use, then people badmouthing a person for using that same knife for anything harder than slicing salami. I understand everyone has different needs or wants(Much of what is written about on BF concerns recreational activity) in the woods, but survival should indicate the blade can handle abuse IMHO. So, the maker should put careful consideration into marketing. The manufacturers should also answer for a defective product whether it's 1-100 or 1-100k. The problem is knowing whether it's a defective product, defective user, or just a combination of things coming together to create a perfect storm.

I also agree about what Mete posted. It seems to explain many issues I see. This is still a QC issue though. I believe every knife leaving a factory/shop should get a careful inspection. It won't pick up the sort of issues Mete was writing about I guess, but that one minute in hand would keep the loose handle, sloppy grind, uneven bevels, bent blade problems off the internet. Random samples should also be tested and abused. Knives will be pushed beyond thier limits. That's a given. Take care.
 
ShaoloGear said:
Sounds like the point he was trying to make is if it's marketed as a life or death survival knife then they had better be sure it's 100% before it leaves the door.
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Nobody . . . I mean NOBODY . . . can guarantee 100% reliability for their "life or death survival" products before they leave they door. If they could, there would be no need for warranties.
 
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hardheart said:
Looks to be a poor grinding job from the factory. Too thin and/or heat buildup. Anyone looking at the brand instead of the edge is doing it wrong. Fallkniven didn't make the steel, and they didn't even make the knife.
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Regardless, they got one hell of a recipe!
I sold 4 custom Doziers after using my S1.
Nothing better than getting a hair popping edge on your denim pants!:thumbup:

And I LOVE Bob!
He has a cabin about 20 miles from me.
One of the best guys I have ever met!
Humble down to earth, best knife on the market today as far as I am concerned.
Just can't sharpen them on your pants leg like you can a FK (gotta love the convex).!
 
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Typical thread, mention a problem and the fans get indignant. Of course this is a knife review, The Welshman described what he does with his knives and how surprised he was that the F1 experienced significant failure. That's what we want to see in knife reviews, not that he got one more great example of a respected brand, but what can happen and what we can do when something goes wrong.

Maybe there was a defect in steel or heat treat, maybe there was an error in use. We all learn from that, even Fallkniven. Why do you think the brand is so good? They analyze their problems to correct them! We need a public post for others -- polite, analytical, or angry -- to pick away at the possibilities.

Do not ever denigrate the poster for an honest question. Do not question his honesty based on nothing more than cynicism or speculation. If I were speculating, based on what he's told us, he has more experience than most, and knows what he's talking about. Courtesy is integral to a productive discussion.
 
Mikael W. That's quite a problem ! In any case you'd have to preheat and post heat .I've set up procedures to weld large pieces of tool steel and keep the hardness but I would think for something like a tang I would be looking at 'miniature welding' like laser .That I would have to research. Have you asked the folks at Fallkniven since you know them ?

jdk1, for those who read German, Roman Landes ,metallurgist and knife maker ,has written a book about knives from a technical point of view. You can find out just how easy it is to overheat a blade when grinding !! Even by hand !

In 1955 Dow Chemical came out with a silicone tanning treatment for leather .There was a liquid you could buy and treat your shoes which certainly saved a lot of shoes when walking in snow/water/salt. I don't know what they use today .
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Courtesy is integral to a productive discussion.
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I get your point, Esav. But courtesy is also integral in giving manufacturers an opportunity to fix problems before those problems become public and damage their reputations unnecessarily. I've seen this come up time after time. I've rarely heard a manufacturer complain about the fact that they've been asked to repair a defective product covered under their warranty. But I've certainly heard them complain when they discovered that a defect in their product had been posted here before they were even made aware of it, let alone had a chance to respond to it.
 
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Fallkniven is not being harmed by this discussion. The Welshman could hardly have been more deferential to the company, and they have had many supporters speaking up for them.
 
I think a consumer owes a greater courtesy to other consumers to make them aware of problems and update them on how the problems are resolved. Twenty people posting about how the same problem was resolved in the same satisfactory manner seems more like 19 stories that could have been "I waited until the first guy reported that the manufacturer recalled the product and fixed the issue before I bought one without wasting return shipping fees and turnaround time." As a consumer, I would rather other consumers helped each other save time and money, instead of looking out for the bottom line of companies who need help fixing their issues.
 
Yes. That's the other side of the argument, all right. At what point do we as a community need to know that a defect has occurred? Do we give the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt and take it to them first or do we bring it here? If the problem turns out to be systemic and we fail to say something about it, have we done a disservice to our community? I don't have ready answers to these questions. I just know that the manufacturers I've dealt with, most of whom are extremely reputable, have appreciated that I've given them an opportunity to respond to a problem before I went public with it. And in every case, they've fixed whatever the problem was quickly and thoroughly.
 
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Esav Benyamin said:
Fallkniven is not being harmed by this discussion. The Welshman could hardly have been more deferential to the company, and they have had many supporters speaking up for them.
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They are not being harmed AT ALL with this!

Outstanding knives, and I have owned a few in my time (one of my best friends is a custom knife maker).
FK= One of few I would put at the top of my "survival" knives, after 10 years with my S1, it is a "Go Too" knife, more so than most I have ever used.
 
Lenny said:
Man, this bums me out big time.
I was thinking of buying either the F1 or Essee 4.
I like the handle and laminated steel of the F1.
But if something like this happens, no way do I want to send it back to Sweden
and wait for Fallkniven to tell me that it isn't covered under warranty.
That's where Esee shines.
Made in USA, no questions asked warranty.
Plus, a little less expensive.
Lenny
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Ask yourself, given a choice, do you want good warranty service or no need to use that service? At one point, the Yugo had the "best warranty in the industry," and made the consensus worst product being made at that time. A warranty may be a sales tactic, an expression of the makers confidence in its product, or the only thing going for that product.

Don't tell the one customer who got a defective product about the 999 who did not. I promise Mr. 1000 will not be mollified, much less impressed.

What I would appreciate in a "review" to help me would be some information - any information - about what caused the damage. Some information about the dimensions/angles of this particular knife (to compare to the specs) would also help. That information might guide my use of my F-1's.
 
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