Fighting a big cat...

I remember reading a story about way back when (late 19th early 20th century) about some white ranger in South Africa who got attacked while on horseback by a lion. He got knocked out of the saddle and the horse got out of Dodge fast. The ranger pulled out his knife, which by the descriptions I recall was a medium butcher knife like an Old Hickory, and killed the lion. Great story, maybe somebody else remembers the details.
 
I would use a .40 pistol. It makes a bigger hole than any 4" blade and is just as quick to deploy. Even the sound of the discharge may scare the cat away, but probably not if it has already determined that you look like lunch. If I'm worried about big cats, I wouldn't feel safe with only a knife.
 
nemoaz said:
I would use a .40 pistol. It makes a bigger hole than any 4" blade and is just as quick to deploy. Even the sound of the discharge may scare the cat away, but probably not if it has already determined that you look like lunch. If I'm worried about big cats, I wouldn't feel safe with only a knife.
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A .40 pistol will not make a bigger hole than a 4" knife. It will make a hole from a further distance though. Watch some of the videos and see what a 4" blade will do to flesh. It does a lot more damage than a pistol round.
 
tedwca said:
A .40 pistol will not make a bigger hole than a 4" knife. It will make a hole from a further distance though. Watch some of the videos and see what a 4" blade will do to flesh. It does a lot more damage than a pistol round.
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It will when it hits bone expands and tumbles which is entirely the point getting at a cats vital organs. Large predators will shrug off a lot of flesh wounds. Its organ and major arterial damage you are after.

Didnt anyone tell you never bring a knife to a gun fight. haha ;)

A blade is better than no blade this is true.

Skam
 
skammer said:
It will when it hits bone expands and tumbles which is entirely the point getting at a cats vital organs. Large predators will shrug off a lot of flesh wounds. Its organ and major arterial damage you are after.

Didnt anyone tell you never bring a knife to a gun fight. haha ;)

A blade is better than no blade this is true.

Skam
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You have a point,penetration is important.
However because of something called compression a 4 inch blade can make a wound path much deeper than 4 inches.
Also the real damage done with a knife is what is done after the initial penetration.
You could make a permanent wound track you could drive a truck through if you know what you were doing.
For most people they'd be way better off with a pistol.
.40 is a good caliber.
A head shot or spine shot would stop a cat pretty quick.

Aim small miss small.
 
Nice sized kukri, 12 inches. Long enough to lop off limbs, lop off heads, split skulls, but pointy enough to give a good stabbing if they are lying on you.

that said, there was a female hiker in Washington a few years ago, cougar started eating her. She killed it with a set of long tweezers. Pushed it through the sucker's eye into the brain.
 
In Nepal the Mahuts use either a khukuri or an axe to defend themselves against Tiger attacks,the Mahut in the picture below was attacked by a Tiger a couple of years before the pic was taken, from which he had bad scars on his legs, he used the khukuri in the picture (a blade length of 13" and weighed around 26oz) to defend himself with. He was was real character BTW.
Mahut_on_Eleph.jpg
 
tedwca said:
A .40 pistol will not make a bigger hole than a 4" knife. It will make a hole from a further distance though. Watch some of the videos and see what a 4" blade will do to flesh. It does a lot more damage than a pistol round.
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I don't know... I can't say I've ever tried it with a pistol and a knife, but I've done some bowhunting and rifle hunting. I know a rifle bullet is moving much faster with more energy than most pistols, but an arrowhead also cuts a much deeper and wider path than most knives. And animals go down a lot quicker with the bullet. Bullets don't just punch a little hole the size and shape of the bullet in the target, like a knife leaves a cut in the shape of the knife blade. Things kind of explode. I've opened up deer shot with both. With the arrowhead, it can leave a big hole you can fit several fingers through, all the way through the animal. A deep clean cut through the lungs, heart, etc. With a powerful rifle, there isn't a big hole in the heart and lungs. The heart and lungs just aren't there. It just looks like somebody poured black and red stew inside it. I know varminters shoot animals and the bodies literally explode into just a red mist.
 
There is no doubt that a well made khukuri is a formidable weapon, as well as an exceptional tool mostly in the hands of someone experienced with its use. However, in the case of an attack by a mountain lion, or a cougar or any of these predators I don't think this should be the blade of choice. Why? Well, picture this: the cat attacks you from the rear. What can you do with the khukuri? Perform a back slash? No! Stab it? No way, as in fact you need a blade with a somehow upswept point to be able to stab someone (or, something fo9r that matter) over your shoulder. Perform a chopping strike? Neither that! A khukuri has amazing chopping power due to the curvature of the blade so, how can you use it to chop over your back?

I think that Elen (post #12) is very prudent by recommending carrying a large backpack. This can really be a life saver for exactly the reason he mentions!

Elen said:
Big cats like going for your neck. It's a little hard to go for your neck if it's covered by the backpack and whatever you have attached to it. Works for bears, too. If one of them bastards jumps you, hopefully, they'll hit the pack and not your flesh.
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In the case of an attack by such a predator one needs to know that big cats are masters in the element of surprise. We are not talking about an O.K. Coral stand-off here. We are talking about an instant, extremely ferocious attack by a creature which is both a specialist at and extremely well equipped for it.

It is true that Masai kids kill lions with spears. One needs to remember though that this means they are on the look-out for them and it is done from a distance! From close quarters though? Well, I propose we pay attention to this comment:

riddleofsteel said:
Of course we have no figures on how often the lions win.
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Andros said:
In the case of an attack by such a predator one needs to know that big cats are masters in the element of surprise. We are not talking about an O.K. Coral stand-off here. We are talking about an instant, extremely ferocious attack by a creature which is both a specialist at and extremely well equipped for it.
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Well said. Big cats are stalkers. Natural, expert stalkers, with sharp claws and huge teeth. They're unlikely to attack from the front so you have time enough to lop their heads off with a kukri or shoot at them. They'll stalk you, and if you look like weak and small enough prey, they'll jump at you from behind and try to bite your neck and claw you down with their own weight. A good large backpack that covers your neck and your head from behind does a couple of things against this. It puts something between you and the critter so it has a harder time clawing and biting at your actual flesh. It makes you look larger and heavier in the first place, which, if you're lucky, might make the critter reconsider attacking you and going after something smaller and easier instead. And since the backpack comes off, you may be able to use it as a distraction.

Firearms are powerful, yes, but they do have some issues in situations like this. Friendly fire is one thing. Suppose you have a large cat on your back, trying to claw his way to your neck through your pack, and you draw your gun and try to shoot that thing off of you. In a situation like that, it's not exactly impossible to miss the cat and hit something else behind you. If you're hiking with someone, that something might be him. Granted, predators will be less likely to attack you if you are not alone, but if they're hungry and desperate... Not very likely, no, but something worth remembering.
 
That brings up another point. A lot of guys mentioned 4" knives. That's not going to do a hell of a lot of good if the thing is on your back, either. Seems the first oder of business is to get it off your back. I really like the backpack idea, especially if you use a pack with a quick release. We stand a much better chance against a cat if we can face it.

Personally, I think I could get my SP-101 out faster than my knives, and "stab" it with 5 rounds of .357. I don't put good odds on me in a me with knife vs cat with claws encounter.
 
I believe that realisticly, the best defense would be a good dog. They have much more situational awareness than humans, particularly where other smelly animals are concerned. A dog would not only alert you to the danger, but distract the big cat long enough for you to bring your .44 mag Smith & Wesson (or .454 Casull) into play. On the downside, dogs can also attract trouble from large predators in the wilderness. You plays, you pays.

Codger
 
Cpl Punishment said:
That brings up another point. A lot of guys mentioned 4" knives. That's not going to do a hell of a lot of good if the thing is on your back, either. Seems the first oder of business is to get it off your back. I really like the backpack idea, especially if you use a pack with a quick release. We stand a much better chance against a cat if we can face it.
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Well, that depends. I've never had any trouble striking behind me with a short fixed blade. It's quite easy. Even if you have a backpack, the animal will be very close to you if it's trying to bite you in the neck. It's well inside reach. But still, I would want a longer knife than a 4" for this type of thing. I'd want something that penetrates well and is sturdy enough not to break. 6" would be nice. If the cat is on your back, but not getting to your skin because of a pack or something, the situation is actually pretty bad for the cat. You can, probably, stab or shoot at him without much resistance, since he's trying to fight your pack instead of you. A good stab or a shot will hurt him really bad at that range, and if you have, say, that 6" knife, and your stab manages to hit him in the neck or head, both of which will be close to you as he's trying to bite you, he's very likely going down.

If we can face the cat, it's quite possible that the cat thinks he lost his chance and simply flees and leaves us alone. That would be good. And if the cat doesn't realize that you got away, and still chews up on your pack while you've already released it from your back, he's going to be in trouble especially if you have a gun.

Dogs are good as early warning, but as said, they may also invite trouble you wouldn't have found otherwise.
 
COnsidering that a bigcat atack will likely end with youin VERY close quarters , wouldn't something effective at getting in and ripping, like a Karambit, be a pretty good option? I also like the retainability under stress.
Now, I don't normally carry a war boar hiking, but if in lion country without a firearm, I just might. Now to find a nice sheath for it.
 
One of the Sayoc instructors works at some sort of wildlife rehab place. http://www.sayoc.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1766 is a page with a few pictures of him playing with jaguar. I believe he told me it was a central american jaguar (and so, a little on the small side). There are a few pictures on the second page of the album that are not over-exposed.

Just thought you guys would like to see the pictures.
 
My cousin was bowhunting elk in Mo. last year, had just finished taking a dump, and looked up into the eyes of a 180lb mountain lion 15 feet away.

He had nothing with which to defend himself, so he bukled up and stared screaming. Luckily his friends came to the rescue, and the cat slunk off.

Upon his reporting the incident, I got him a copy of the beast in the garden and urged him to get a glock 27.

It has been a year, he is yet to buy a pistol or finish the book.

Would you be satisfied with the Temperance- phenomial blade, weight, and grip (much more fun to use gloveless than the FB griptillian)

OR

Might you want something a little longer?
 
cash2006 said:
What reasonably sized and priced knife might you wish to have?

Crazy question, but after reading a wonderful leopard encounter by Wilbur Smith, seeing survivorman in Africa nervous about lions, and then seeing the "what are you afraid of" thread, I can't help but ask..

Cats have always made me nervous, and if one ever hit me I'd want to do some damage.
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Recall the Mt. lion attack on an elderly couple earlier this year in No. Cal. The Wife attempted to stab the lion with a ballpoint pen as it attacked her Husband. One case where the sword would have been mightier than the pen. She managed to get the lion off of him but his wounds and subsequent infection were very serious.

Whatever you carry should obviously be accessible. A stout 3" or longer blade would be reasonable. You choose the brand.

Wilbur Smith books make terrific reading. I think the first triology was the best, starting with When the Lion Feeds.

GB
 
smokelaw1 said:
COnsidering that a bigcat atack will likely end with youin VERY close quarters , wouldn't something effective at getting in and ripping, like a Karambit, be a pretty good option? I also like the retainability under stress.
Now, I don't normally carry a war boar hiking, but if in lion country without a firearm, I just might. Now to find a nice sheath for it.
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Exactly what I was thinking. When in a tustle with anything close quarters and without warning you dont have the time or ability to produce large unwieldy weapons.

I still say a Karambit if it is to be a knife.

SKam
 
If I get attacked by a pack of lions, all I need is a single-shot muzzleloader...



...for shooting myself. Those beasts sometimes eat their prey alive, and being eaten alive by stinking, ugly, furry, stupid, big, fat cats is the last way I want to die.


For fighting a cougar or leopard I'd take everything I can cut it's throat with.

For a tiger I'd want a howdah pistol by my side. :)
 
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